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Old 11th June 2017, 19:48   #1
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Default Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

This is after an AR registered bus operated by an andhra based outfit was wrecked, the kesineni story about their closing down due to the competition undercutting them using Arunachal registered buses (so 17k instead of 5 lakhs for a Volvo) etc

http://www.thenewsminute.com/article...cks-whip-63493

The travels operators plan to move court and get a stay but I doubt that's going to fly too far.
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Old 12th June 2017, 10:50   #2
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
This is after an AR registered bus operated by an andhra based outfit was wrecked, the kesineni story about their closing down due to the competition undercutting them using Arunachal registered buses (so 17k instead of 5 lakhs for a Volvo) etc
Thanks, hsreus, for sharing this information. I may not be the only person to have noticed this strategy adopted by reputed travel and truck owners to operate out of state registered CV's in other states. Bangalore has seen an increase in such vehicles with registration numbers from Arunachal Pradesh and Nagaland. Orange, Jabbar, a few Kerala bound buses and Kesineni too. I have noticed in Bangalore buses running with AR number plates. Other private bus operators and truck owners involved in Sand and Concrete business are running vehicles with number plates from NL and OR. I have registered a complaint with the RTO and BTP about such vehicles after reading this post.

Last edited by GTO : 12th June 2017 at 12:30. Reason: Poorly typed post
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Old 12th June 2017, 10:59   #3
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Thanks for sharing this information
Kesineni was operating only vehicles registered in the state they were based in (so Telengana / Karnataka / Andhra registered buses), they were complaining that all their competitors were bringing in NE registered buses and undercutting them due to the savings in road tax.

Registrations as well as national permits for all AR registered out of state operated CVs are being cancelled so that will be quite interesting now.

I expect that Nagaland and Sikkim will soon follow suit in this regard.

Last edited by GTO : 12th June 2017 at 12:31. Reason: Trimming quoted post
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Old 12th June 2017, 11:45   #4
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

If the proposed cancellation takes effect, and if most of these CV's are with BS-III engines, won't re-registration too become a challenge/hurdle to the affected operators?
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Old 12th June 2017, 12:08   #5
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

Weren't NL registered trucks in vogue even back in 80s and 90s. I think it'll be more easier for them to handle, given that they already do cross country trips. I see the travels busses join the bandwagon in the last decade or so. On a smaller scale, you also see TN-58 busses doing KR Market-Anekal routes. This is from 2010, not sure they run still.

Last edited by GTO : 13th June 2017 at 10:21. Reason: Typos
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Old 12th June 2017, 12:21   #6
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

Any immediate impact related to this news? I travel in a sleeper registered in AR and have to, tonight. Most sleepers on this route are new and registered there in AR. Only KPN and APR have KA registered sleepers that start from my place.

I am hoping we aren't stuck in the morning on the road.
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Old 12th June 2017, 12:32   #7
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by dkamath View Post
If the proposed cancellation takes effect, and if most of these CV's are with BS-III engines, won't re-registration too become a challenge/hurdle to the affected operators?
Most of the cvs in question are expensive ones - volvo and scania buses, large seven and more axle trucks etc where the cost of registering in the north east and driving it a few thousand km down to south India is still far less than the LTT cost in a ka / ap etc RTO

If any cv is a bs3 run by a small time operator and ends up with this issue that's going to be either a dead loss or operated on back roads, possibly with a mud smeared or faked license plate, without insurance or anything else for however long they can manage t
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Old 12th June 2017, 13:42   #8
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
Thanks, hsreus, for sharing this information. I may not be the only person to have noticed this strategy adopted by reputed travel and truck owners to operate out of state registered CV's in other states. Bangalore has seen an increase in such vehicles with registration numbers from Arunachal Pradesh and Nagaland. Orange, Jabbar, a few Kerala bound buses and Kesineni too. I have noticed in Bangalore buses running with AR number plates. Other private bus operators and truck owners involved in Sand and Concrete business are running vehicles with number plates from NL and OR. I have registered a complaint with the RTO and BTP about such vehicles after reading this post.
How does operating a commercial vehicle registered in other state cause a problem? I think people are jumping the gun without understanding what is wrong.

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Kesineni was operating only vehicles registered in the state they were based in (so Telengana / Karnataka / Andhra registered buses), they were complaining that all their competitors were bringing in NE registered buses and undercutting them due to the savings in road tax.
How do you save road tax by registering a commercial vehicle in another state? The vehicle needs to pay tax to every single state it operates to. So an AR registered bus operating from Hyderabad to, say, Coimbatore, has to pay tax to Telengana, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu, in addition to its parent state, which is AR. Where exactly is the savings here?

Kesineni made an issue due to his business rivalry. He quit the business and is now playing the victim card. Kesineni operated buses that had 24 berths, while other operators brought in buses with 30 berths (legally registered in a state like KA or PY). Kesineni had higher costs due to lesser berths, while the operators with more seats had lower costs - they offered seats at lower fares, which angered Mr Nani, who went around creating issues.

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Most of the cvs in question are expensive ones - volvo and scania buses, large seven and more axle trucks etc where the cost of registering in the north east and driving it a few thousand km down to south India is still far less than the LTT cost in a ka / ap etc RTO

If any cv is a bs3 run by a small time operator and ends up with this issue that's going to be either a dead loss or operated on back roads, possibly with a mud smeared or faked license plate, without insurance or anything else for however long they can manage t
You don't pay LTTs for Commercial vehicles (some states do give that option, but is far more expensive and prohibitive compared to LTTs for private vehicles). You pay a tax every quarter. And an All India Permit vehicle needs to pay the quarterly tax irrespective of whether you operate or not.
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Old 12th June 2017, 14:09   #9
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
How does operating a commercial vehicle registered in other state cause a problem? I think people are jumping the gun without understanding what is wrong.
Please check this thread where travelers have discussed on traveling in out of state registered bus between South Indian states.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-lots-of...in-South-India

Please read this article from a newspaper which explains the fraud.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/citi...s-1517415.html

Last edited by deehunk : 12th June 2017 at 14:24. Reason: add useful information
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Old 12th June 2017, 14:21   #10
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
Please check this thread where travelers have discussed on traveling in out of state registered bus between South Indian states.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-lots-of...in-South-India
A lot of the posts there make absolutely no sense, and the posters seem to be as clueless as the posts here. I have friends in the Industry, and I understand why buses get registered in AR, and I know the fact that they do not save any money on taxes by doing this.
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Old 12th June 2017, 14:28   #11
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
A lot of the posts there make absolutely no sense, and the posters seem to be as clueless as the posts here. I have friends in the Industry, and I understand why buses get registered in AR, and I know the fact that they do not save any money on taxes by doing this.
Out of curiosity, can you please let us know ? There should be some reason to register in AR.
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Old 12th June 2017, 14:48   #12
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Out of curiosity, can you please let us know?
I was editing my post to share another link from a newspaper and waited for 15 minutes to avoid another infraction today, The so called clueless posters have tried to understand the reason behind the increase of AR registered buses, unlike posters who do not disclose the reason despite having the knowledge.

Last edited by deehunk : 12th June 2017 at 14:52.
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Old 12th June 2017, 15:02   #13
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Out of curiosity, can you please let us know ? There should be some reason to register in AR.
Yes, I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
A lot of the posts there make absolutely no sense, and the posters seem to be as clueless as the posts here. I have friends in the Industry, and I understand why buses get registered in AR, and I know the fact that they do not save any money on taxes by doing this.
If posters are making clueless comments and you know the true picture then it's only right to bring out the facts as it's imperative to elaborate a statement like this, especially in an open forum.

Please reply if you can otherwise just report to get your post deleted.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 12th June 2017 at 15:04.
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Old 12th June 2017, 15:17   #14
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by narayans80 View Post
Weren't NL registered trucky vogue even back in 80s and 90s.
If I remember it right, there are/were restrictions on the tonnage for road-going vehicles in most states but NL etc allowed some leeway. Hence most of the heavy-weight pullers and tractor-trailers were registered in those states. Moreover, a physical inspection of the vehicle was not necessary then. Not sure about it now.

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Most of the cvs in question are expensive ones - volvo and scania buses, large seven and more axle trucks etc where the cost of registering in the north east and driving it a few thousand km down to south India is still far less than the LTT cost in a ka / ap etc RTO
As @binaiks rightly pointed out, the taxation for CVs is a lot different from that for private vehicles. Many people who were up in arms (and rightly so) against the Bangalore RTOs' witch-hunt on out-of-state vehicles assumed that the yellow-board taxis and buses with TN, AP etc plates were evading taxes which in many cases was not true.

Quote:
If any cv is a bs3 run by a small time operator and ends up with this issue that's going to be either a dead loss or operated on back roads, possibly with a mud smeared or faked license plate, without insurance or anything else for however long they can manage t
Are we not going too much into a conspiracy theory mode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
Please check this thread where travelers have discussed on traveling in out of state registered bus between South Indian states.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-lots-of...in-South-India

Please read this article from a newspaper which explains the fraud.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/citi...s-1517415.html
Quora as such is so full of keyboard warriors and internet researchers that it's quite easy to get carried away. There was a time when it used to have credible information on current affairs, but not quite so these days. The Indian Express article says nothing about the "fraud" because the operators get their vehicles registered in a state whose RTA allows registering such a coach. The premise for registration would vary as it's the designated RTA's discretion based on state rules. As long as a state (for example KA) does not prevent a vehicle registered in a different state (say, AR) to be used in its jurisdiction without meeting its rules, there is no illegality per se. But, this did happen recently - KA insisted on having an emergency exit on the RHS, after a spate of accidents resulting in casualties that could've been prevented by providing additional emergency exits - and almost all buses that use KA roads have this now. I do agree that they're using a loophole in the law here, but it's the job of all affected govts to arrive at a consensus on this.

***

A good reason for this development could be the rising number of insurance claims and the like arising out of accidents. Just like high-end cars getting registered in union territories using made-up addresses, the registration of these buses may also involve some arrangement - maybe registering a small office in their territory only to register the buses. Without an elaborate mechanism to trace the wherewithal of the real owners, it can be a tedious task for the authorities with their limited manpower.

Last edited by silversteed : 12th June 2017 at 15:29.
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Old 12th June 2017, 15:23   #15
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Default Re: Arunachal Pradesh to cancel registrations of out of state commercial vehicles

There is no saving in the road tax payed by the buses, they pay the same tax as other states.
Buses had been purchased paying 4 % VAT instead of 12.5% to 15% in other states this is a huge difference for a vehicle costing over a crore.
Other than this difference AR is flexible in registering buses to owners design, and doesn't have a set frame of rules under which interior layout has to be kept.
Most states collect road tax at maximum rate sanctioned by parliament, which is Rs 7000 / seat / year, and 10% surcharge for shorter period payment instead of annually in advance.
Road tax payment also has a 20 day grace period in most states, ie if a MH registered bus goes to KA, and has payed a tax for Jan to March quarter, and April to June quarter, then the bus can pay the tax for July to Sept quarter upto 20th of July without any penalty or interest. Border checkposts can collect tax without penalty at the time of entry if the quarters first entry is after 20th.
Most states in these regions like TS, AP, MH, GJ, KA, etc collect quarterly tax for vehicles from other states. GA, MP, RJ have provision for shorter period taxes too. Infact MP used to collect one day tax, and operators from MH to places like Indore Bhopal etc used to enter MP after midnight, and time return such that they exit before next midnight, they stopped this provision a few years ago.

AR police are saddled with tracing owners of vehicles registered in their states against which police cases have been filed in other states, and due to this they are cancelling the registrations of vehicles that do not have trips either starting or ending in AR.
This is something like MH not allowing permit for states more than two border crossings away, ie a MH registered bus can cross KA and enter TN or KL, but not PY which is silly. Similarly they can cross GJ and enter RJ but not PB or HR which is practical.

Rahul

Last edited by Rahul Rao : 12th June 2017 at 15:28.
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