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Old 26th July 2017, 11:30   #16
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Still doesn't take away from the fact that it's a step in the right direction. There is no doubt that an air-conditioner greatly elevates comfort levels & reduces fatigue.

We mustn't shoot down every good initiative with what hasn't been done yet. Among other things, the government has enforced emission norms on commercial vehicles (even though manufacturers were fully confident of an extension), made ABS mandatory etc.
Exactly, air conditioners reduce driver fatigue to a great extent. It is a welcome move by govt. Esp in summer truck cabins are like hot oven. When the second driver takes the wheel, first driver will generally sleep in the berth behind the seat. He would never be able to close his eyes or even relax in the soaring heat.

Coming to FE, it really takes a hit. 0.5 km reduction per litre is huge when looked from a owner's side. When truck running close to 4500 kms in a month with A/C approx.200 lts of extra diesel will be consumed easily. I calculated it on coimbatore to mumbai, 2 trips per month. This is the least additional expense.

Here comes another hit, initially there will be lot of resistance to increase the rental rate/ tonne/km.
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Old 26th July 2017, 12:49   #17
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

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Originally Posted by OrangeCar View Post
Woww.. somebody seems to have thought about truck and bus drivers.

I mean, how could they! Oh, wait.. almost 20% of accidents caused by them. That's why you want to take care of them.
You mean almost 20% accidents are caused around them. I'm not sure about that number but I'm sure accidents caused BY THEM would be much less. It's not their fault if someone decides to jump in front of a moving truck. They do not have the agility of a sports car to swerve around. In my years of highway driving, I have seen them to be the most disciplined. I mean the long distance truckers. Their quarry/dump truck cousins, however, are totally insane, just like autorickshaws. You will be surprised to know how many accidents are caused around trucks where it's not truckers fault, as a huge number of buffoons just materialise out of thin air in front of moving trucks.
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Old 26th July 2017, 14:07   #18
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

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You mean almost 20% accidents are caused around them. I'm not sure about that number but I'm sure accidents caused BY THEM would be much less. It's not their fault if someone decides to jump in front of a moving truck. They do not have the agility of a sports car to swerve around. In my years of highway driving, I have seen them to be the most disciplined. I mean the long distance truckers. Their quarry/dump truck cousins, however, are totally insane, just like autorickshaws. You will be surprised to know how many accidents are caused around trucks where it's not truckers fault, as a huge number of buffoons just materialise out of thin air in front of moving trucks.
I fully agree. Whenever I go on highway, I always appreciate these slow moving giant lorry drivers for their patience and lane discipline 99% of the time. They will never get tempted or triggered by car drivers' wrong mannerisms. They just give their way when a car flashes light or honks. In my opinion, 99% of the time, when an accident happen between truck and other vehicle, the fault will be by other vehicle drivers.

Regarding Autorikshaws, In Bangalore, there is a saying, Autorikshaws overtake any vehicle if they find space for their front tyre. The entire Auto will squeeze in and make space

Last edited by gkveda : 26th July 2017 at 14:09.
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Old 26th July 2017, 14:35   #19
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
In my years of highway driving, I have seen them to be the most disciplined. I mean the long distance truckers.
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Originally Posted by gkveda View Post
Whenever I go on highway, I always appreciate these slow moving giant lorry drivers for their patience and lane discipline 99% of the time.
Absolutely true. The long distance truckers are very patient and considerate. Only that they don't get the respect they deserve from smaller vehicles.

The move to make trucks safer and comfortable is something that should ideally have been customer-driven but since majority of owners are bent upon keeping the lives of truck drivers miserable, Government has had to step in.

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Originally Posted by pranavGTI View Post
Coming to FE, it really takes a hit. 0.5 km reduction per litre is huge when looked from a owner's side.
For a typical HCV achieving 3 kpl, I doubt AC would reduce efficiency by 0.5 kpl which is more than 15%. However, I am only guessing. Also, with improving engines, AC load could very well be offset by improved efficiency due to modern engines.
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Old 26th July 2017, 14:41   #20
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

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Originally Posted by pranavGTI View Post

Coming to FE, it really takes a hit. 0.5 km reduction per litre is huge when looked from a owner's side.

Here comes another hit, initially there will be lot of resistance to increase the rental rate/ tonne/km.
In my opinion, AC will not reduce FE and even if it does, it will be marginal at best, that too when it is empty. With load, it hardly makes any difference.
The figure you quote of 0.5 kms per litre is a substantial number for a truck. I believe a loaded truck hardly returns 2-2.5. A bonus is given to the driver if he is able to achieve anything higher.
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Old 26th July 2017, 15:59   #21
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

The additional fuel consumed by a truck engine with airconditioner will be negligible, in case of a 12M 16 ton bus with 160/180 HP and main engine driven AC the drop is from 4.5 KM/lit to about 3.8 KM/lit, the AC here has a big open type V4 compressor and a capacity of 11 tons.
For a truck cabin AC, a car Ac type 5 or 7 piston squash plate compressor would be the norm, capacity will be 2 Tons or so. Difference should be at most 0.15. I had a talk with my transporter whose trucks get us material from Gurgaon to Pune, he said that just the removal of checkposts due to GST where trucks crawl and wait in queue has improved average, the 3118 4 axle truck are drawing under 800 Lit for the 2800km round trip against about 950 before GST era, round trips are also within 4 days against 6 days previously.
The transporters are also more interested in reliablity and break down free runs than fuel consumption, only thing they say is engine driven AC compressor means 4 V belts instead of 3 now.

Rahul

Last edited by Rahul Rao : 26th July 2017 at 16:00.
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Old 26th July 2017, 16:38   #22
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

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In my opinion, AC will not reduce FE and even if it does, it will be marginal at best, that too when it is empty. With load, it hardly makes any difference.
The figure you quote of 0.5 kms per litre is a substantial number for a truck. I believe a loaded truck hardly returns 2-2.5. A bonus is given to the driver if he is able to achieve anything higher.
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Originally Posted by ksameer1234 View Post
For a typical HCV achieving 3 kpl, I doubt AC would reduce efficiency by 0.5 kpl which is more than 15%. However, I am only guessing. Also, with improving engines, AC load could very well be offset by improved efficiency due to modern engines.
Bonus to the drivers are given by logistics corporates like VRL. But small operators don't have a concept of bonus for achieving FE. Instead FE is given by the drivers for each trip. According to the information shared by my relative who owns and operates LPG gas tankers for IOCL, HPCL and BPCL and also associated with Southern Region Bulk LPG transport Owners Association - SRBLPGTOA, the average FE given by driver for an 18TON rear double axle tanker lorry is 2.6 kmpl.

The sad part is the diesel tanks are not fool proofed to prevent diesel theft. Even if it is there is always a way to show high fuel consumption. Both, owner and driver knows about this diesel theft but they don't speak about it.

Now coming to the A/C. Even in cars there is a significant difference in FE - 2kmpl with A/C On and OFF. For HCVs 0.5 should be reasonable.

The small operator worry about just these things, if air conditioner is made mandatory.

1. It is a welcome move to have the drivers in a fresh state of mind.
2. How much FE does the vehicle give, actually? Wll the rate/km increase so as to compensate.
3. The dip in FE reported by the driver.
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Old 26th July 2017, 18:02   #23
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

This mandate can also have some other positive outcomes which would be most welcome :
1. Better designed fully-built cabins thereby moving out of the chassis/FES (front end structure) which masquerade as cabins
2. Modern powertrains with higher power outputs, hopefully no more wheezy struggling trucks at the slightest of inclines.
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Old 26th July 2017, 20:34   #24
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

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This mandate can also have some other positive outcomes which would be more welcome.
2. Modern powertrains with higher power outputs, hopefully no more wheezy struggling trucks at the slightest of inclines.
Hey GeeTee. The trucks are equipped with engine keeping in mind the loading capacity. Two things i would like to point out.
1- Almost all the trucks carry goods many times above their loading capacity.
2- The poor maintaince of the trucks. " Don't fix it till it is broke" mentality plays a key role.
The government is ignoring the real causes which lead to accidents.
Just my two cents.
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Old 26th July 2017, 21:04   #25
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

While this decision is really good, will it be used implemented on existing trucks? If not, it may not have the intended consequences till at least 10 more years (by which time the current trucks would be at the end of their life cycle). Truckers deserve much more than what they receive, and they are the backbone of the logistics department of many industries.
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Old 26th July 2017, 22:25   #26
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

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Originally Posted by GeeTee TSI View Post
This mandate can also have some other positive outcomes which would be most welcome :
1. Better designed fully-built cabins thereby moving out of the chassis/FES (front end structure) which masquerade as cabins
2. Modern powertrains with higher power outputs, hopefully no more wheezy struggling trucks at the slightest of inclines.
Another positive side effect of this would be the prevention of the confusion ensued by the cleaner sticking his hand out all the time. Whatever that means. He sticks it out for turns, slowdown, pass, don't pass, or to just air his sweaty armpits. With the AC the window may remain closed and the pesky cleaner hands inside the cabin

More power is a welcome relief. I am always frustrated while driving on the national highways. The slowest trucks take the right most lane, and they never budge. The slow cargo autos even get annoyed if you try to pass on the right, and the drivers ask you to pass on the left as if it is the right thing to do.

More than the power, if they stop overloading of trucks that would help. What help would additional power do if they load 5x times the capacity.

Last edited by prasadee : 26th July 2017 at 22:31.
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Old 26th July 2017, 23:11   #27
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

I wonder if the policy makers have ever seen an actual average Indian truck. Apart from the bare minimum stuff to run a truck, nothing else works. It seems dents and broken stuff here and there is a norm for trucks.

A/C needs properly sealed cabin, else within days it may stop operating properly.

When truck owners are least bothered to repair anything apart from bare minimum mechanical to run, I guess A/C may be the last thing in their mind.

I wonder, if government is so concerned on driver fatigue, why is Indian Railways still have its majority of the locomotives with Non A/C driver cabin ?

Isn't that the first place to start ?

I agree with all here who wrote about overloading and poor maintenance. Operating an overloaded, poorly maintained vehicle is way more challenging (mentally/physically) compare to a properly maintained and properly loaded truck.

I guess the above criteria is way easier and practical to implement.

By the way, Indian Railways has something called dead man switch mechanism. Where the locomotive driver needs to press few buttons in sequence in order to keep the locomotive running. A device sounds an audible alarm (randomly) in a certain span of time. The loco-pilot has to press few buttons in sequence to keep the locomotive running. If the system finds improper entry, the loco would apply the breaks to stop the train.

Isn't that a better or practical option to keep truckers awake? Specially with ECU driven engines, it is more secure way. Off course, corrective measure may be different compare to a train loco. In case of truck, may be shut off accelerator input, but you get the point right ?

If the aim is to reduce accident from driver fatigue, that dead man switch is way more effective than A/C cabin. At-least government run Indian Railways seems to have proven that. Since none of their locomotive runs without this dead man switch mechanism.
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Old 26th July 2017, 23:33   #28
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This is funny. I don't know why people are even mentioning "fuel efficiency" in a truck with ac thread! It's absurd. The truck engine won't even notice the compressor attached to it what with the humongous torque. Can't even compare to a passenger car engine on those terms at least. Why, I bet even the truckers themselves are not even going to think of it on those terms. The small cabin of the truck will cool sufficiently with a small car size ac.

But the truth of the matter is that these truckers may use it till it works and once it conks off, they won't even blink and just carry on with their drudgery. They are not t-bhp members at least mentality wise. Did anyone think how many car owners at least care to maintain their car AC's? I bet even as of today most people don't even give it a thought. Until it stops cooling that is. Most know about car ac maintenance these days only maybe because the 'modern' ASS these days rips them off with it mentioned in the service bill. So maybe it crosses your mind because you're paying for it. That's it. Now think about why we're sweating about how our poor truckers are doing to think about FE with ac!

Other than the information in the heading of the post just for general knowledge or news, this topic is not helping anyone. Just my two cents. You guys have fun. Drive safe. And cool
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:21   #29
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

One more aspect is important, this time from the perspective of a fleet owner. The driver is handed over an AC truck which he is driving on a long trip lasting a few days. During night time, the driver sleeps in the stationary truck with the AC on. This situation may sap the fleet owner of valuable fuel maybe at the rate of 1 liter for every ten minutes(just a wild guess) which would mean 6 liters per hour or 30 liters for a minimum sleep of 5 hours. now 30 liters is approx 1800 Rs for which an AC room can be rented for the night

While we can argue whether a slave engine which would cool the cabin using one fourth the fuel is the better option, the truck owners will be one wary lot after reading about this new rule as Fuel efficiency for them is what gets reported by the driver at the end of the trip.
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Old 27th July 2017, 15:08   #30
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Default Re: AC cabins for trucks mandatory from December 31, 2017

While I run the risk of this comment getting deleted, nonetheless we have to face facts.

The one thing that will result from this is reduction in the business of road side rooms hired by truckers for gratification. Now, with air conditioned cabs, they will simply pick up prostitutes and use their trucks for their business. So one may see random trucks parked along the highway which may be a traffic hazard. currently, these trucks stop at lay byes on highways which have "service" rooms close by.

Harsh, but fact.
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