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Old 28th April 2004, 14:58   #1
Sam
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Default Alternative public transport

I dont know if this idea has been spoken about before coz i havent seen it.

I drive from Bandra to Ghatkopar almost everyday, this route includes worli sea link, dharavi and sion. The biggest problem I see is over crowding of the roads. I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to reduce the traffic.
Then I asked around as to why mini busses are not in use. I then heard that it was to be implemented some years back but the road taxis and BEST objected to it.
Now I dont get the logic of why they objected. Coz if one looks at the possibilities of such a method it helps in every way. So many countries ive seen where it works.
In SA we dont have rickshaws, and taxis are very scarce. Taxis you will see like S classes on mumbai roads(Not too many but still quite a few). So my means of transport is of course the train, bus or mini bus. But becoz the bus takes too long and the train station is too far from where I want to go, I take a mini bus. Its cheap and it gets me where i wana go fast.
Looking at the emplyoment side, no one goes out of business, except maybe the revenues of BEST. Existing taxi drivers could drive them. The no of taxis and rickshaws on the road would decrease coz their pay would definately be better. 14 passengers are moved around in a more manouverable vehicle. Teh revenue generated from 14 passengers is definately better than 2 or 3, almost as good as a bus.
How many times havent anyone of us been driving in the left lane following a bus but couldnt overtake and then had to wait behind a it coz it didnt exactly go close enough to the bus stand when it stopped. Then you get back tracked when u could have been ahead. Well with mini buses it would be much smaller and move quicker. Less collisions too.

If anyone can shed some light as to why this was not taken seriously i would like to know. I feel that if toyota wants to it can start mass producing their Hi-Ace vehicle here, and then the process would start. Tata is in the process of supplying mini buses to south africa why not do it here?? here is the link http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/1...5,00020010.htm
What are the legal implications of such a venture. Would the Govt not want more efficient Road transport?? I know this is a lengthy read, but i feel this I dea could help everyone.
Why spend money on a Mono rail system when this is far more effecient and cheaper.
What are your views, pros and cons of such an idea??

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Old 28th April 2004, 17:24   #2
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hey sam
agree with you dude
mini buses will reduce congestion, and accidents done by the public bus drivers to a large extent albeit a lillte more cost
here in hyd, there are a lot of 7 seater autos, which reduced a congestion a bit, untill the govt banned them in city areas

i am sure a good mini bus cary close to 14 people and having good efficeny can replace the best/apsrtc buses to a large extent

ps: in hyd the apsrtc buses have killed 17 people in the last 2 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 28th April 2004, 18:38   #3
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hey sam, agreed to ur point of using mini buses for reducing traffic congestion but i have a point to make ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]Then I asked around as to why mini busses are not in use. I then heard that it was to be implemented some years back but the road taxis and BEST objected to it.
Now I dont get the logic of why they objected. Coz if one looks at the possibilities of such a method it helps in every way. So many countries ive seen where it works.
In SA we dont have rickshaws, and taxis are very scarce
abroad they dont have taxi and auto unions who like brainless dodo's keep on objecting to every small move the govt makes ......

a better option wud be to develope the water transport system and jettys from where ppl will be picked up by mini buses or taxis or autos. the coastline of mumbai is being used only to dump waste and bathe and shit in it!! it deserves more respect.

yes , the hovercraft facility was started a few years ago from vashi to gateway of india..but it was priced way above the reach of the common man and it met its death. we shud be looking at low cost cheap safe water transport system that even the common man can use.

and yes why doesnt the state govt stop the sale of autos in mumbai..their number is growing at a mad pace and threatning to take over the roads of mumbai!!!!!

somebody better do something quick.

cheers

ps- there are a lot of things that we cud suggest but will the govt authorities and the stupid taxi and auto unions ever think about the city that gives them their livelyhood
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Old 28th April 2004, 22:46   #4
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Good point bout the sea way. That is an awful waste of space which can be used for transport. But i do feel the infrastructure will be expensive, but a few good quality bouts like those run to essel world would really help. It would be a pollution free ride too.

On the aspect of unions, well in South africa we have taxi associations for each suburb. And my point is instead of riding rickshaws and taxis these drivers could be driving 14 seaters. The rickshaws and taxis dont have to be totally abolished. I mean imagine you going on a date and you dont have a car, u cant exactly go by train or share with 12 other people. there will still be the need for individual transport. But the drivers need to be made aware of the advantages to them. Coz for them its like someone is trying to strip their livelihood and that is not the case.
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Old 29th April 2004, 01:19   #5
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You cannot replace 1 cab/auto driver with a minibus driver. For every 5-6 drivers losing their job, theres one driver who gets to drive the minibus.

Theres no way the auto/cab union will let these systems be implemented. They didnt even allow the electric ricks to ply between Lokhandwala and Andheri Station. And that too when it was supposed to be a trial run.

The best solution to reduce traffic problems is to stop the registration of new cabs/autos, introduction of a/c buses at a nominal fare, more flyovers.
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Old 29th April 2004, 07:21   #6
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Ok that is true they wont allow it. But in the make believe world not only will the traffic be less but then the influx of people coming to bombay to drive will be less, coz it wont be that easy. Hopeful thinking on my part.
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Old 29th April 2004, 14:38   #7
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I for one think that the minibus concept has some good potential, and the transport authority may do some good by atleast adopting it in "testing" form. Butttttttttttttttt the main obstacles are leadership, implementation, alternatives, cost and revenues.

Effective leadership, or the lack of, in India really does not need any more mention. On top, there is just an endless number of certificates and approvals to be had before such a project would even get to the infancy stage.

Beside the Mahindra/Mitsubishi Voyager, there is currently no commercial vehicle that would fit the bill for similar transportation. A Toyota Hi-ACE could be introduced by Toyota but the cost would be no less than 8 - 9 lacs. A diesel engined Ashok leyland Chassis costs apprx 7 lacs, while a CNG variant goes up to 12-13 lacs. Add in a handful of lacs for the construction of a basic body and you will see that the ratio of cost of vehicle/number of passengers is significantly lower in the BEST bus, compared to a minivan type of vehicle.

Revenue generation by sale of tickets would be reasonable only if the tickets are sold at a much higher amount than BEST buses, an option that would bring the cost of this mode of transportation frighteningly close to that of a rickshaw/taxi. Plus the disadvantages of inflexible timings and lack of door-to-door pickup and dropoff.

In fact, the BEST Airconditioned bus was brought in primarily with the objective of providing reliable and comfortable transportation to the business community, as also to ease up traffic on the roads. Buttttttttttttt it hardly took off, and if anyone tells you that BEST makes money on that venture he is surely lying. Instead of the business community parking their cars home and using the A/c bus, it is serving more as an upgrade for non-a/c bus travellers, while offering a cost-effective option to taking the cab.

Maruti has just introduced a finance scheme for its 800, whereby the monthly installment is just 2599/- for a couple of years. 2599? Damn thats cheap!! Easy financing has made owning a car just so much easier, and there are very many first-time buyers who jump directly to an Alto/Zen/Santro/Indica due to easy installment plans.

The Bombay traffic is increasing by the day, leading many to think of what an impossible situation it will face 10 years down the line. Some drastic measures need to be introduced, but our state governments are more re-active than pro-active. And why only the roads? Housing, water/electricity supplies, schools, employment....each and every form of infrastructure is over-burdened because of the fact that Bombay right now has atleast 20 times the number of people it has a capacity for.

Reasons for introducing public transportation by mini-van would be more of a contribution to the city than for revenue generation. Eventually I am certain that this project could break-even but India needs effective and visionary leadership to roll out these kinds of projects.

Leadership is what it all comes down to.

Did you vote on Monday? I sure did!

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Old 29th April 2004, 16:18   #8
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I see your point, but what the matter at hand is not to abolish the old system but to amend it with the new. That is that the mini bus system should act as a parallel to reduce the load on the roads. It could be govt subsidised, but withthe use of privately owned drivers or taxi companies, but that is just not going to happen.
I could go on trying to argue that this is a good solution stating all pros and cons. But you right the govt needs some good insight, as u said the reactive and not pro-active.
Sooner or later something will have to be done coz private vehicles are increasing by the second.
And like said above the number of current taxis and rickshaws need to be put to a stop growth first before anything can materialise.

Ps I did not vote, i am not a national.
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Old 29th April 2004, 17:46   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]I see your point, but what the matter at hand is not to abolish the old system but to amend it with the new.
Exactly my point, I was suggesting it as an alternative mode to the BEST, not as a substitute. The costing was given to illustrate that when the BEST has to allocate its resources they currently go for the option which gives them a lower vehicle cost/number of passengers ratio than the other option.

There currently exists an upper limit on the number of taxi/rickshaw licences issued by the RTO, but these restrictions are evidently not enough.

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Old 30th April 2004, 23:30   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]There currently exists an upper limit on the number of taxi/rickshaw licences issued by the RTO, but these restrictions are evidently not enough.
thats mild statement gto. the whole suburbun area of mumbai is under the autorickshaw menace..just watchin a scene outside any rly station gives me the creeps......

and in places like bhyander ....u have to see it to believe it !!! there are more than 1 auto per person...man its crazy.....even 16 yr old guys without any training (forget licensces ) drive those 3 wheeled monsters ..yes monsters coz its acheived monster status now!!!!!

hope there is a ban on manufacture of 3 wheelers ( i know this wont happen ) what will bajaj do then ??

but some solution needs to be taken out and fast !!!!!!!!!!!

cheers
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Old 1st May 2004, 00:46   #11
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Mumbai has a huge coastline and I don't understand why it can't be used.
Why not have boats/Jetty's like they have in Europe/USA that can carry about 25-30 cars/buses from one end of the city to another??? IF someone wants to go to Colaba from Juhu, he just needs to drive into the Jetty and it will take him in a short time to Colaba and drop him off at Gateway of India from where he can drive down to whereever he wants to go.
If every jetty carries 25-30 cars/buses it will surely reduce the traffic on the roads automatically. Of course u got to price it cheaply too. Another advanatage would be fuel saved.
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Old 25th September 2005, 12:14   #12
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yes u r right guys, india needs to develop a lot on public transport, even though there are available systems ppl dont tend to use them
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Old 25th September 2005, 15:47   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
In SA we dont have rickshaws, and taxis are very scarce. Taxis you will see like S classes on mumbai roads(Not too many but still quite a few).
Thats because Taxis are unsafe in most of Africa. When we landed in JB the first time, our clients warned us NOT to take a taxi and to hop onto the 'Magic Bus' instead - safer, cheaper and saves you the trouble of haggling.

I'm not talking about limousine taxis operated by companies here - I'm talking about the equivalent of our Black and Yello cabs.

As for mini-buses, the KSRTC have implemented this idea on many of their local routes in Kerala using Eicher Skyline buses. They've been a big hit, and their drivers seem to be different from the usual lot too - I see them keep very religiously to the left lane on the 4 lane NH, using the bus bays properly and actually using their indicators + providing hand signals. It was quite a shock to see KSRTC drivers behaving this way.

In Cochin, there is a proposal to restrict the large buses to the 'main' routes (read: those that are reasonably big) and give permits for mini-buses to run subsidiary routes into residential areas as a kind of feeder service. IMHO this experiment will be successful only if there is a unified transport company as opposed to private operators, and if a person getting on from a subsidiary route can buy a ticket till his final destination which can then be used/validated on his journey on subsequent buses.

Taking this idea further, someone actually suggested the use of a smartcard ticket with a preloaded value. Needless to say, that idea was thrown out as far-fetched.
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Old 25th September 2005, 17:00   #14
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Another issue is that Minibuses are easier to drive, accelerate, and brake properly hence the driver is willing to slow down, move to lanes, switch lanes when required.
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Old 25th September 2005, 19:43   #15
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In Bangalore lots of companies have taken matters into their own hands and operate private buses for their employees. Mostly Swaraj Mazda and the like. Problem is, these vehicles sit idle from late morning to early evening.

I really would't call the Hi-Ace a minibus. Its more of a full size van (smaller than TempoTraveller)

Last edited by Mpower : 25th September 2005 at 19:45.
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