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Old 16th March 2007, 19:42   #16
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There is an interesting observation upon the choices of bus chassis between the private players and the STU's. It seems that although the STU's, as many claim are not guided by anything related to corruption, choose leyland over Tata's almost everywhere based on quality and reliability, as against the private players who seem to go mostly the Tata way. Its quite a contrast actually. In Kolkata almost all private busses are TATA's and almost all state busses are leyland. With tat in mind, I guess it would be wrong to assume quality and reliability based on government undertaking purchases.

However as Sir Alec puts it, in most hill stations of India (northern parts), we find the TATA busses being mostly used irrespective of private or government. Infact the very fact that sir alec knows about the Leyland brand being from Darjeeling is an indicator of his knowledge rather than penetration power of ALL.

btw now the 1210 engine is dead we have cummins derived engines from TATA. So anything about indegenious technology from Tata is pretty dumbfounded as the 1210 engine was actually a derivative of the TMB.
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Old 16th March 2007, 22:32   #17
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However as Sir Alec puts it, in most hill stations of India (northern parts), we find the TATA busses being mostly used irrespective of private or government. Infact the very fact that sir alec knows about the Leyland brand being from Darjeeling is an indicator of his knowledge rather than penetration power of ALL.

btw now the 1210 engine is dead we have cummins derived engines from TATA. So anything about indegenious technology from Tata is pretty dumbfounded as the 1210 engine was actually a derivative of the TMB.[/quote]

One observation from 2 South Indian States - Nilgiris (Ooty) area in TN used to have Tata buses once upon a time, they are all now ALL. Similarly, most hilly areas in Kerala State, both STUs and private use ALL.

Maybe one of the reasons why Tata is used in hilly areas is that they have a shorter chassis (a little larger than a mini-bus) that suits narrow roads and has more power to weight. Leyland never got its smaller buses right (although they did try with the Cargo series).

Leyland uses engine technologies derived from Hino (subsidiary of Toyota) for the last 20 years or so, although I guess the engines are totally engineered and built in their own plants.
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Old 16th March 2007, 23:39   #18
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On rating both TATA and Ashok leyland, They both are very apt and can def survive our Indian Conditions..!

The Basic fact will always remain, TATA are still the Rulers of Transport- Buses or Trucks, Both Civil and Military..Ashok leyland is close second..!



Inter City,City,Inter State- It really does not matter what you are being driven in, Get the Roads in Place and Teach the Bus Drivers that its the Tax Payers money going in to purchase buses or spares they screw up..!


PMT fellow feels they are inadequate, Have them Trade it off with Blue Lines from Delhi, Then PMT will realize what they have is luxury..!

Last edited by wolfinstein : 16th March 2007 at 23:46.
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Old 17th March 2007, 12:33   #19
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I think there can be some truth in PMT.

As Tata are tradionally kings in making LP/LPO buses. But these rear engine bus has been designed quite recently to take on Volvo, which I think has not been a tradition of Tata's. So may be they have problems also just think why should a company like Tata can take nearly 5 months to make 6 buses whose design is nearly close to rear engine buses which they have supplied to PMT totally contradicts their production nearly 600 to 650 trucks/buses on a daily basis.

And after all you cannot clap by one hand PMT's maintainence & the way they keep their fleet is that much pathetic.
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Old 17th March 2007, 14:46   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfinstein View Post
On rating both TATA and Ashok leyland, They both are very apt and can def survive our Indian Conditions..!

Inter City,City,Inter State- It really does not matter what you are being driven in, Get the Roads in Place and Teach the Bus Drivers that its the Tax Payers money going in to purchase buses or spares they screw up..!

Yes, Tata and AL are both equally good (or bad). As mentioned in my earlier post, the problem lies with Indian roads that demand high ground clearance, something that low floor buses simply cannot provide. Hence, the typical truck chassis based bus design rules in this country.
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Old 17th March 2007, 17:48   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 Bond View Post
But these rear engine bus has been designed quite recently to take on Volvo, which I think has not been a tradition of Tata's. So may be they have problems also just think why should a company like Tata can take nearly 5 months to make 6 buses whose design is nearly close to rear engine buses which they have supplied to PMT totally contradicts their production nearly 600 to 650 trucks/buses on a daily basis.
Incidentally, Leyland had its own rear-engined bus in the late eighties, one of which used to run in BEST in the 1990s. It is just that Volvo came up with a great product - high-powered and fast, very comfortable and aspirational - and took the market by storm. Leyland was ahead of its time (not the first time, they had a 3-axle truck in 1973-74 with the Taurus) with the rear-engined bus (they called it the "Integral Bus"), but they have fallen behind in marketing-savvy despite having an impressive product range.
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Old 18th March 2007, 09:44   #22
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The PMC manager (C.K. Anil) who brought out the case against Tata Motors has been transfered to Bihar.
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Old 18th March 2007, 16:45   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajo View Post
The PMC manager (C.K. Anil) who brought out the case against Tata Motors has been transfered to Bihar.
That is a very interesting update...
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Old 18th March 2007, 17:32   #24
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C.K. Anil was transferred to Pune P.M.T. only in December 2006.
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Old 18th March 2007, 19:30   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajo View Post
The PMC manager (C.K. Anil) who brought out the case against Tata Motors has been transfered to Bihar.

Poor CK Anil. Hope he cools his heels in the lovely state. And promotes public transport via TATA buses there.
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Old 18th March 2007, 20:23   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajo View Post
The PMC manager (C.K. Anil) who brought out the case against Tata Motors has been transfered to Bihar.
I didnt know that PMT has operations in Bihar!!
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Old 18th March 2007, 22:20   #27
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Quote:
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I didnt know that PMT has operations in Bihar!!
Actually, he was from the IAS.
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Old 18th March 2007, 22:45   #28
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Here in chandigarh the mc is changing all the buses to low floor busess and they are all tata Till now haven't heard anything about them breaking down or having problems about its performence and all the buses around chandigarh are tata and the older buses which were leyland are now replaced by tata

my driver say that tata buses are better than leyland as he has driven them both and tata are more powerfull
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Old 18th March 2007, 23:46   #29
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Tata buses have good initial pickup, Leyland buses are good for long journeys, though people say that the later is more reliable.
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Old 19th March 2007, 17:40   #30
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Leyland is a better bus compared to Tata due to some important features

First - The tata product never evolved .I.e. The 1210 remained the same and there was no upgrade of the product .
now ,1510 with the cummins tc engine is also the same . The gearboxes are still the same ,where as leyland constantly upgrades its product .

Every year there are a lot of changes in the gearbox .The leyland gears are bigger ,and I also constantly see leyland testing their vehicles with over weight on the roads . leyland introduced a 5 finger clutch , first turbo engines were from leyland .

next imp feature is leyand brakes are fully air ,where as tata buses still use brake oil on some models .

The tata suspension is rigid . The leaf springs are not lengthy enough whereas the leyand springs are length allowing more travel .

Another feature is front over hang - leyland has a bigger front overhang as well as a rear over hang and this translates into better stability during driving and also while braking .

leyland buses have a throaty exhaust ,when the driver accelerates there is a noticeable throaty sound it attracts passengers and drivers .

leyand was the first to use 24v electricals whereas tata used 12 v until recently .

leyland buses cut fully ,they have a full steering whereas tata buses have only half cutting

leyland was the first to impress the industry with a 5 lac km warranty on the engine .

Leyaland introduced the first air suspension bus .

Notwithstanding all these , why low floor buses fail with govt transport companies are because of the follwoing flaws

Low floor rear engined buses of both the companies suck .

Thats because ,the front does not have leaf springs -they have independant wishbone suspension -

Rear engine buses have gear rods ,activating the gear levers -bushes which wear out and these do not get replaced . cluth pedal , accelerator ,everything are linked from the front to the rear via rods and these rods get bent ,or the bushes in the rods wear off .

when the buses get over loaded ,the engine ,gearbox do not have a proper air circulation to the cool them , its not a manufacturer fault ,but bus bodies are built like that .
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