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Old 23rd July 2007, 22:19   #151
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Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Long stroke Huh.... looks better for torque.. Was it ever turbocharged?? Did it have any issues in turbocharging??
Wasn't 1516 the first "indegenious" turbo-charged truck?

Volvo raised a huge issue about not being able to operate on Kolkata Siliguri route because ofthe cratered NH34. If Volvo can get that impossible task done, as that road is never well treated even if it is between two biggest cities in WB, it will get a lot of thumbs up. Lot of people from Kolkata will take their cars to Darjeeling!

Last edited by 1100D : 23rd July 2007 at 22:21.
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Old 24th July 2007, 15:17   #152
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Long stroke Huh.... looks better for torque.. Was it ever turbocharged?? Did it have any issues in turbocharging??
Truck engines are usually long stroke. Even the Cummins "B" 5.9 that currently serves the Tata range has 120 MM stroke. What are the stroke specs for AL 412 and Hino?

No turbocharged version of 1210 was ever launched.

Last edited by directinjection : 24th July 2007 at 15:28.
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Old 24th July 2007, 15:26   #153
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speaking of hino, i wonder why they are not interested in india.they have the kind of vehicles we need,even isuzu for that matter.
does anybody know why isuzu stopped selling trucks in india?
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Old 24th July 2007, 15:27   #154
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Wasn't 1516 the first "indegenious" turbo-charged truck?
That's true. Other unique features of the truck were power steering and an ergonomically designed full-fledged cab which had its own suspension system. The cab was a Mercedes copy and continues till this date.

Arund the same time, AL launched the 18 tonne GVW Taurus which too had a turbo engine and power steering. However, it only came with a cowl whose design was sourced from British Leyland. AL did not have a proper R&D set up in those days unlike Tata.
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Old 24th July 2007, 16:36   #155
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[quote=1100D;509343]Wasn't 1516 the first "indegenious" turbo-charged truck?
quote]

1516 used a different Engine If i read the post correctly.
I asked whether 691 was turbo charged. was there any stroke differences with 691 and 697??
I believe 697 has a shorter stroke
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Old 24th July 2007, 16:40   #156
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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
That's true. Other unique features of the truck were power steering and an ergonomically designed full-fledged cab which had its own suspension system. The cab was a Mercedes copy and continues till this date.

Arund the same time, AL launched the 18 tonne GVW Taurus which too had a turbo engine and power steering. However, it only came with a cowl whose design was sourced from British Leyland. AL did not have a proper R&D set up in those days unlike Tata.
Very Funny.....................

If TATA copies a cab from Merc it is a "proper R & D" setup
If AL buys designs for a cowl from Leyland it is "not a proper R & D"
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Old 24th July 2007, 16:42   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
Truck engines are usually long stroke. Even the Cummins "B" 5.9 that currently serves the Tata range has 120 MM stroke. What are the stroke specs for AL 412 and Hino?

No turbocharged version of 1210 was ever launched.
Just can say that Hino is much shorter..
With long stroke on cummins too.. there will be limitations on up speeding the engine.. right???
Well...I presume Cummins has a lesser rated speed than Hino...

Last edited by Jomz : 24th July 2007 at 16:45.
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Old 24th July 2007, 16:47   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Very Funny.....................

If TATA copies a cab from Merc it is a "proper R & D" setup
If AL buys designs for a cowl from Leyland it is "not a proper R & D"
I am rather surprised that a company like Tata which buys engines from Cummins has a "proper R&D" but AL which has a working relationship with Hino since the early 80s and makes its own engines (and good ones at that) is considered deficient! I hope it will be remembered that the widest product range and most product innovations (when all Tata could bring out was the 1210) were from the AL stable - the double decker, the vestibule truck, rear-engine low-floor bus, the multi axle truck, extra-long bus chassis, the front-door Viking buses, the Stallions, the formidable range of tractor-trailers, to quote a few that I know of. Till Tata came out with the 407, I doubt whether telco-ites knew there was a R&D department in their company!! Look back at Telco during the DMB days (prior to 1980) and I don't see too many things coming out of its R&D.
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Old 24th July 2007, 16:50   #159
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And let me add - the Taurus had the first turbo engine in the country, never mind that it was from the British Leyland stable - onbiously, you can't simply import a truck and sell it in a new country (which was not the case anyway) without adapting it to local conditions. And correct me, if I am not wrong, AL complied with emission norms much before Tata did.
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Old 24th July 2007, 17:02   #160
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. And correct me, if I am not wrong, AL complied with emission norms much before Tata did.
Even type approving for Euro 3, Leyland engines complied much before tata's.
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Old 24th July 2007, 17:28   #161
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[quote=Jomz;510356]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Wasn't 1516 the first "indegenious" turbo-charged truck?
quote]

1516 used a different Engine If i read the post correctly.
I asked whether 691 was turbo charged. was there any stroke differences with 691 and 697??
I believe 697 has a shorter stroke
697 has a longer stroke. It's 128 MM. Bore is also more at 97 MM.
1210 engine was DI 692, not 691.
I anwered your query regarding turbocharging of 1210 engine quite clearly.
To repeat, it was not turbocharged.
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Old 24th July 2007, 17:41   #162
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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
I am rather surprised that a company like Tata which buys engines from Cummins has a "proper R&D" but AL which has a working relationship with Hino since the early 80s and makes its own engines (and good ones at that) is considered deficient! I hope it will be remembered that the widest product range and most product innovations (when all Tata could bring out was the 1210) were from the AL stable - the double decker, the vestibule truck, rear-engine low-floor bus, the multi axle truck, extra-long bus chassis, the front-door Viking buses, the Stallions, the formidable range of tractor-trailers, to quote a few that I know of. Till Tata came out with the 407, I doubt whether telco-ites knew there was a R&D department in their company!! Look back at Telco during the DMB days (prior to 1980) and I don't see too many things coming out of its R&D.
The DMB days were prior to 1970, not 1980!

Telco had set up a full-fledged R&D department (called ERC or Engineering Research Centre) by the time the collaboration with Daimler Benz came to an end in 1969.

The 1210 itself was designed and produced indigenously. It had a direct injection engine whereas the Mercedes truck license produced by Tata earlier had indirect injection engine. 1210 was more fuel efficient and also more powerful than the Mercedes truck it replaced.

Similarly trucks like 1516, 1616, 1210-4X4, 1516-4X4, 1312, 807, 610, etc. were indigenously designed. 407 and Tatamobile 206 came much later. Even if the designs lacked 100 % originality, none of them involved borrowing technical drawings or other expertise from abroad, the way AL did.

Yes, AL had a wider product range than Tata in those days, but their CVs weren't designed indigenously.
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Old 24th July 2007, 17:48   #163
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Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Just can say that Hino is much shorter..
With long stroke on cummins too.. there will be limitations on up speeding the engine.. right???
Well...I presume Cummins has a lesser rated speed than Hino...
CV engines aren't supposed to be speeded up. Low end high torque is what they're supposed to produce. The usual standard worldwide is 2200 RPM. Hino engines are a notable exception to this rule. IIRC, most of their engines are rated at 3200 RPM.

Cummins B 5.9 is rated at 2500 RPM.
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Old 24th July 2007, 17:49   #164
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I think we can be reasonably proud of Telco and AL, and their tenacity in beating competition from Izuzu, Ford, Neoplan, etc in earlier days, and also seeing through tough business cycles which saw the eclipse of Premier (Dodge-Fargo) and HM (Bedford). And mid-80s saw the rise of the Jap LCV which Telco 407 and 609 almost decimated (Eicher-Mitsubishi, Swaraj-Mazda, DCM-Toyota, Allwyn-Nissan), although a few like Eicher and Swaraj did survive the beating. Having said whatever I have, I admire Telco for the extensive R&D achievements today, that could turn out the Tatamobile, 407, Sumo, Indica, Safari and Ace, apart from its staple MCV/HCVs.
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Old 24th July 2007, 17:53   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Very Funny.....................

If TATA copies a cab from Merc it is a "proper R & D" setup
If AL buys designs for a cowl from Leyland it is "not a proper R & D"
Copying requires a higher level of expertise than simply borrowing drawings from abroad. Most indigenous R&D efforts begin that way.
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