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Old 16th December 2009, 17:52   #2011
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
BTW, I heard that the windscreen of the Thiruvananthapuram volvos cost 1.5 Lakh. Add another 50K to it, and you will get an entire body fabricated on any other chassis.
Thats just tip of the iceberg.

A regular major service (without any technical issues, also how often does that happen?) on a Volvo B7R costs more than the cheapest car from Maruti today. There is no reason to assume that Volvo Citybus will be wildy cheaper.

I simply do not know how much it will cost if, say in Kerala, some political party decides to stone the Volvo to 'demonstrate their opposition to the flawed policies of the government'. Perhaps Volvo can run a separate maintenance scheme for such cases!
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Old 16th December 2009, 17:59   #2012
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For all this talk of Tata picking up a stake in Swaraj Mazda, Debasis Ray (Head - Corp Comm) has just released an official statement denying any interest in Swaraj Mazda.
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Old 17th December 2009, 00:06   #2013
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
That is a good reason to disfavour the high capital cost vehicles for city commutes.
Thanks BaCkSeAtDrIVeR for your comments. Nice to see many like minded intellectuals on the message board.
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As I understand the heavy passenger vehicle business, this appears to be the general trend all over the world - somebody third party builds the body according to the specifications of the operator.

Bus body building is essentially a fabrication job - bending some MS angles / channels / rectangular sections, etc, putting aluminium / GI sheet over it, and painting the whole setup. Even seats are fabricated by the builder, unless in case of luxury / push back seats, which are sourced from Harita Grammer, a TVS group JV. Again, in case of high end vehicles, several components may be sourced from outside - like hydraulic door closers, etc.
Many bus brands in international market you dont even know who makes the Chasis, Engine etc unless you read the spec. The brand name is for the bus.

Even in India the CV industry is changing. Earlier every maker uses their own engines and gearboxes in their products. But now In addition to Tata Motors, Ashok Layland and Volvo Eicher sources Cummins engine manufactured in Tata Cummins( A 50:50 JV of Tata Motors and Cummins) plant for certain ranges (not all products) of vehicles. TM, AL uses Allision Transmissions in their certain new range of vehicles. It is good for the industry as the CV manufacturers could concentrate on other aspects and overall packaing as Engines and Gearboxes requires lot of R&D and investment.
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Old 17th December 2009, 10:32   #2014
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One more reason for City Volvo's running in losses is they are not being utilized efficiently.
Sorry for the off-topic, but cannot agree more on this comment.

Following the Transport Minister's statement last week on avoiding Over-Time pays to the BMTC staff, the authorities have come up with a great solution, which i'll try explaining, taking my daily bus as an example.

This particular bus (a Vajra 500K) takes 12.3 hrs to report back to the depot, from the time it departs every morning. Since it cannot make all trips to Vijayanagar and ITPL throughout the day, it makes 2 trips as 500K, and 1 trip as 500C on any given day.

Starting this week, and as an OT pay cut measure, the 500C trip for this bus has been cancelled/revoked, and the staff have to eat/sleep/do whatever inside the bus during that time, for 3 full hours at ITPL (mind you, these hours do not count to their work hours, and they are paid as per the normal 8 hour/day wages, but they still continue to spend 12.3 hrs on road), and then make that last trip back to Vijayanagar and then return to the depot. So, the bus makes only 2 full trips as 500K everyday.

Simply inhuman for the above action to be taken! The authorities are prepared to idle/un-utilize this expensive asset for 3 hours (by cutting 1 trip), than pay their staff for OT hours.

And what's so wrong with the Tata Marcopolo that it can't even share a route with the Volvo B7RLE? In the above case, idling it would not make so much of a dent as with the Volvo.

Last edited by dkamath : 17th December 2009 at 10:36.
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Old 17th December 2009, 10:57   #2015
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Volvo operation was never a success for Kerala SRTC. I do remember the time, when Hon Minister Ganesh Kumar introduced the volvo's for the very first time, were other states had not even thought about it. It was ofcourse seen as a run away hit, but the actual maintenance and service issue started hitting back at Ker SRTC. Remember a driver telling to press, that a fan belt cost 50k for the volvos and to fix it requires expertise from bangalore volvo division.

Slowly the volvo started diminishing from the Ker SRTC fleet, and were replaced by Semi Sleeper A/C airbus(look alike of Volvo).

Was bit surprised to see the flow floor intercity Volvo service in trivandrum.In Karnataka volvo fleet are hit escpecially the ones plying between ITPL, EC, and 201R. Hardly get to see them empty, but in kerala I doubt how successful it would be. Build to last low fleet buses would have been a better bet for Ker SRTC rather than a Volvo.

Is Volvo going to be a boon for Ker SRTC only time will tell, but going by past experience I am not in a mood to believe it.
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Old 17th December 2009, 11:00   #2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkamath View Post
Sorry for the off-topic, but cannot agree more on this comment.

Following the Transport Minister's statement last week on avoiding Over-Time pays to the BMTC staff, the authorities have come up with a great solution, which i'll try explaining, taking my daily bus as an example.

This particular bus (a Vajra 500K) takes 12.3 hrs to report back to the depot, from the time it departs every morning. Since it cannot make all trips to Vijayanagar and ITPL throughout the day, it makes 2 trips as 500K, and 1 trip as 500C on any given day.

Starting this week, and as an OT pay cut measure, the 500C trip for this bus has been cancelled/revoked, and the staff have to eat/sleep/do whatever inside the bus during that time, for 3 full hours at ITPL (mind you, these hours do not count to their work hours, and they are paid as per the normal 8 hour/day wages, but they still continue to spend 12.3 hrs on road), and then make that last trip back to Vijayanagar and then return to the depot. So, the bus makes only 2 full trips as 500K everyday.

Simply inhuman for the above action to be taken! The authorities are prepared to idle/un-utilize this expensive asset for 3 hours (by cutting 1 trip), than pay their staff for OT hours.

And what's so wrong with the Tata Marcopolo that it can't even share a route with the Volvo B7RLE? In the above case, idling it would not make so much of a dent as with the Volvo.
From what i have seen in the Bangalore North routes, I would still like to stick to my views.

Take a example of 402B Volvo services. Some of the Volvo buses end thier trip between 6.00PM and 6.30 PM. I see these buses going to Hebbal depot daily. It is a office peak hour time and if you look at other normal buses its running full. It may be running for 8 hours or more. But is it running at the right time.

Also if you wait for an hour near Hebbal between 6PM and 7PM, you will be suprised to see the number of buses ending their trip and going to the depot. The route no is 287/Hebbal written.

After investing so much on these buses it needs to be put rightly for public use.
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Old 17th December 2009, 11:15   #2017
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Actually the entire public transportation system in Bangalore need an complete overhaul. With lot of roads being one-way , metro construction etc the bus frequencies and the routes needs to be looked at carefully & planned to utilize the existing fleet of buses efficiently. Merely introducing Volvo buses cannot and is not the solution to citys woes.

Infact the Volvo's are like speed monsters driven on high speeds on congested roads, I have seen them overtaking fast moving cars, really scares when Volvo's Woosssh pass through.

Don’t know how many experts we have at our public transportation department on solving basic transportation related problem.
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Old 17th December 2009, 17:06   #2018
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Originally Posted by REMU View Post
Volvo operation was never a success for Kerala SRTC. I do remember the time, when Hon Minister Ganesh Kumar introduced the volvo's for the very first time, were other states had not even thought about it. It was ofcourse seen as a run away hit, but the actual maintenance and service issue started hitting back at Ker SRTC. Remember a driver telling to press, that a fan belt cost 50k for the volvos and to fix it requires expertise from bangalore volvo division.
The service died a death of its own just due to bad planning by KeSRTC. The two buses they had were run on two damn long routes - so long that the buses had no time for maintenance at all. One of their buses was kept at Thiruvananthapuram, and another at Ernakulam - C'mon! Its just basic sense - having both at the same depot would mean better spare inventory and better control.

At that time, Volvo did not have service back up in Kerala, and an engineer had to come all the way from Bangalore to attend any defects. Now Volvo has a service station in Kerala, and the three B7Rs that KeSRTC now own are maintained by the service station (NOT by KSRTC's own mechanics).

Quote:
Originally Posted by REMU View Post
Slowly the volvo started diminishing from the Ker SRTC fleet, and were replaced by Semi Sleeper A/C airbus(look alike of Volvo).
There was no "Semi-Sleeper" A/C bus ever. They were just normal AC buses (body mounted on a chassis) - few were Tata 1616 and some were Leyland 12M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REMU View Post
Was bit surprised to see the flow floor intercity Volvo service in trivandrum.In Karnataka volvo fleet are hit escpecially the ones plying between ITPL, EC, and 201R. Hardly get to see them empty, but in kerala I doubt how successful it would be. Build to last low fleet buses would have been a better bet for Ker SRTC rather than a Volvo.
The maintenance of the new volvos are handled by Volvo themselves (on an AMC). The current set of buses in Thiruvananthapuram (I heard) are successfull - especially the Infopark route.

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Originally Posted by REMU View Post
Is Volvo going to be a boon for Ker SRTC only time will tell, but going by past experience I am not in a mood to believe it.
Be optimistic my dear friend.
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Old 17th December 2009, 17:21   #2019
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Yet another off-topic, which might perhaps interest kadri007.

About Volvo service, there's this person who lives near our place, back in native, M'lore. I've seen almost every Volvo bus, from MRL, Canara Pinto, Southern, and even KSRTC Airavat's visit him even during late hours, or early mornings. I'm not sure what kind of service is being done to them, that can't be attended by Volvo itself, or maybe it's the service charges. Have always been curious to find out what he services, but hesitate approaching this guy and inquiring about his work
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Old 17th December 2009, 17:40   #2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkamath View Post
Yet another off-topic, which might perhaps interest kadri007.

About Volvo service, there's this person who lives near our place, back in native, M'lore. I've seen almost every Volvo bus, from MRL, Canara Pinto, Southern, and even KSRTC Airavat's visit him even during late hours, or early mornings. I'm not sure what kind of service is being done to them, that can't be attended by Volvo itself, or maybe it's the service charges. Have always been curious to find out what he services, but hesitate approaching this guy and inquiring about his work
I have seen some buses getting repaired near Padav school in Nanthoor. They go for tyre change since there are some puncture shops around.

There could be a possibility that the person is into air conditioners repairs since Volvo would not directly look into it.
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Old 18th December 2009, 07:22   #2021
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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Thanks BaCkSeAtDrIVeR for your comments. Nice to see many like minded intellectuals on the message board.
Many bus brands in international market you dont even know who makes the Chasis, Engine etc unless you read the spec. The brand name is for the bus.

Even in India the CV industry is changing. Earlier every maker uses their own engines and gearboxes in their products. But now In addition to Tata Motors, Ashok Layland and Volvo Eicher sources Cummins engine manufactured in Tata Cummins( A 50:50 JV of Tata Motors and Cummins) plant for certain ranges (not all products) of vehicles. TM, AL uses Allision Transmissions in their certain new range of vehicles. It is good for the industry as the CV manufacturers could concentrate on other aspects and overall packaing as Engines and Gearboxes requires lot of R&D and investment.


Please note that Tata Motors source Cummins engines (B Series) from the JV - Tata Cummins. Whereas all other including AL, Eicher, AMW etc source from Cummins India Ltd. which is a seperate company under cummins. The cummins engines on AL is different from that of Eicher, Tata & AMW being it L series while others are B series.
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Old 18th December 2009, 10:54   #2022
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Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
There was no "Semi-Sleeper" A/C bus ever. They were just normal AC buses (body mounted on a chassis) - few were Tata 1616 and some were Leyland 12M.

Binaiks, Thanks for the clarification, but I believe there were some semi sleeper service. Trivandrum - Kannur and Kozhikode- Bangalore service was semi sleeper. Not 100% sure if they were AC though.
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Old 18th December 2009, 10:57   #2023
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Originally Posted by kadri007 View Post
I have seen some buses getting repaired near Padav school in Nanthoor. They go for tyre change since there are some puncture shops around.

There could be a possibility that the person is into air conditioners repairs since Volvo would not directly look into it.
Lathangi has setup a service centre in Shankar Vittal garage at Attavar, if i remember correctly. This person that i mentioned lives a little beyond Urva Market. You might be right on your guess.
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Old 18th December 2009, 11:25   #2024
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Originally Posted by Transsenger View Post
Please note that Tata Motors source Cummins engines (B Series) from the JV - Tata Cummins. Whereas all other including AL, Eicher, AMW etc source from Cummins India Ltd. which is a seperate company under cummins. The cummins engines on AL is different from that of Eicher, Tata & AMW being it L series while others are B series.
I may be wrong, but Cummins India, sources its Automotive engines from Tata Cummins. In otherwords Cummins india dont have an automotive engine plant in India, but all the engines are made in Tata Cummins plant. The engines used in TM and AL are not the same, but both made at the same plant.
MOTORINDIA ONLINE EDITION: Cummins recommends SCR for Indian market
Quote:
Mr. Anant Talaulicar, Chairman & Managing Director of Cummins India recently announced: “Tata Cummins will establish a manufacturing facility in Phaltan, near Pune with a capacity to manufacture 45,000 automotive engines per annum. Through this plant engines will be supplied to both parent companies, Cummins India and Tata Motors. Tata Motors will use the B Series engines for automotive applications while we will use them for automotive, industrial and power generation”.
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Old 18th December 2009, 13:59   #2025
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I think Cummins also supplies engines for Corona Buses. KSRTC has a few of them in Bangalore
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