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Old 7th January 2010, 16:33   #2131
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Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
Don't get me wrong here, but does it mean that KeSRTC does not have a Cheetah because you've never seen them?
Dear Binai, I just mentioned that I didn't see Cheetah in Ghats (lived there for almost ten years). The conclusion is your addition! My point is Ashley's observation that Cheetahs are mainly used in hilly regions doesn't really tally with what I had seen in Kerala over ten years (which is long enough I think). So perhaps there might be some other reason. Or while purchasing that was the reason and while assigning to depots/routes the reasoning was lost! This after all is KeSRTC!

I have seen Cheetahs (in not so hilly routes by Kerala standards) a few times also. But I do have the gut feeling (no data on excel sheet to support) that the majority of KeSRTC fleet is Vikings. Perhaps you know better.

Thanks for the pictures.

Last edited by Trapezio : 7th January 2010 at 16:41.
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Old 7th January 2010, 16:36   #2132
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Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
Don't get me wrong here, but does it mean that KeSRTC does not have a Cheetah because you've never seen them?
Dont get me wrong here. But Trapezio clearly said that he has never seen any Cheetahs. Does that mean KeSRTC does not have any Cheetahs ?
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Old 7th January 2010, 17:24   #2133
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Ashley2 - thanks for that "collage". I would never have compared the eicher front end to the AL and Volvo but for your post.

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Originally Posted by DieselAddikt View Post
Dont get me wrong here. But Trapezio clearly said that he has never seen any Cheetahs. Does that mean KeSRTC does not have any Cheetahs ?
Trapezio needs to get his facts right.

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Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
Dear Binai, I just mentioned that I didn't see Cheetah in Ghats (lived there for almost ten years). The conclusion is your addition! .
AL has only 2 chassis variants, in 2 wheel base size each, thus totalling 4.

Some buses are built on truck chassis - 185/200" wheel base ones (not sure).

You see either Cheetahs or Vikings. Remember that AL buses rarely come with factory frtted front end (cowl). Since body builders have absolute freedom to fabicrate their own front ends on ALs, the badging usually disappears. You need to look into the RC book or the owner's manual for accurate information. The third, authoritative method, of course, is to look at the front overhang.


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Quote:
My point is Ashley's observation that Cheetahs are mainly used in hilly regions doesn't really tally with what I had seen in Kerala over ten years (which is long enough I think). So perhaps there might be some other reason..
Err.... will you please clarify how you differentiated between Cheetahs adn Vikings (the chassis, I mean)??

And Ashley2 was making a general comment on an all India basis; ghat roads in most partsof rest of India are narrower than other roads.

IIRC, Coimbatore - Ooty TN buses are Vikings.

And I have already stated - KeSRTC buses on Nedumangad - Ponmudi route are neither Cheetahs nor Vikings, but truck chassis (that was 15 years back).

And I disagree with Ashley2 if he means that Cheetahs are BUILT for ghat roads; no, they are not.

I repeat, as an owner of a former Cheetah bus for 12 years - Cheetah and Vikings differ (at least, used to) on, and only on overhangs, and very minor suspension and transmission parts.

BTW, speaking fo Heavy Trucks - Hindustan Motors had brought in Isuzu trucks some years back. Any tract of them?
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Old 7th January 2010, 18:12   #2134
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
And I disagree with Ashley2 if he means that Cheetahs are BUILT for ghat roads; no, they are not.

I repeat, as an owner of a former Cheetah bus for 12 years - Cheetah and Vikings differ (at least, used to) on, and only on overhangs, and very minor suspension and transmission parts.
Sir,

I am aware of the different wheelbases that you mention. I normally look at the overhangs to identify between Cheetah and Viking. Correct me if I am wrong here. Ofcourse I cannot differentiate the truck based buses.

Also, I never mentioned that there is no KeSRTC Cheetahs. Binai has posted some superb pictures of KeSRTC Cheetahs from his collection.

Nobody mentioned that Cheetah was designed for Ghats (I kept mentioning Ghats to save typing over 'hilly regions' ). Sorry for the confusion.

Ashley2, if I understand properly, remarked that he has noticed a pattern of Cheetah being used among hilly regions. I somehow did not notice such a pattern with KeSRTC within my limitations. You also have mentioned another route where such pattern is non existent: Coimbatore - Ooty TN buses are Vikings.

Nobody in India currently can verify these usage patterns to the last percentage accuracy. So IMHO we will have to rely on our judgement.

My basic doubt (which started all this!) is that I have a feeling that KeSRTC fleet's majority seems to be Vikings.

Is that true?

If true, why is it skewed towards Vikings?

Last edited by Trapezio : 7th January 2010 at 18:28.
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Old 7th January 2010, 19:21   #2135
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KSRTC(Kerala) buses(FSLS-Fair State Limited Stop) ,few of them(2 or 3) I saw at Thodpuzha-Idukki route are Ashok Leyland buses having a small chassis length as well as "seems to Me"- truck like Ground Clearance.Is this a real truck chassis?
(some what similar to TNSTC Coimbatore's small buses based on AL Chassis used to operate between chalakudi-Vaalpara hill route)
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Old 7th January 2010, 20:19   #2136
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@deeoclutch - now, be are back on track.

BTW, here is some news from AL. The Hindu Business Line : Ashok Leyland reports 164% jump in December sales

They are surviving / thriving on JNURRM orders.
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Old 7th January 2010, 21:29   #2137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepclutch View Post
KSRTC(Kerala) buses(FSLS-Fair State Limited Stop) ,few of them(2 or 3) I saw at Thodpuzha-Idukki route are Ashok Leyland buses having a small chassis length as well as "seems to Me"- truck like Ground Clearance.Is this a real truck chassis?
(some what similar to TNSTC Coimbatore's small buses based on AL Chassis used to operate between chalakudi-Vaalpara hill route)
Arent these small chasis the lynx platform based one ?
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Old 7th January 2010, 23:17   #2138
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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
The theory being the resemblance of windscreen between those models. Its not necessary for a company to copy a design abruptly to launch a product.
The similarity between Eicher and Volvo may be because, Eicher is nothing but a Volvo Lite. So it is possible that the windshields are made by the same vendor (at least for the prototype).
Quote:
Originally Posted by kadri007 View Post
Someone achieving around 8/9% in the existing market with few models and limited resources,
Companies with few models and limited resources will not survive this battle. Eicher learned this from their experience and that is the reason Eicher tied up with Volvo. If you exclude the LCV (Eicher is/was a market leader in this segment), Eicher market share in HCV is even less.
Also Eicher did not start from scratch, they were building LCV based on technology from Mitsubishi.
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Originally Posted by kadri007 View Post
Eicher with Volvo is aming at 15% market share and Mahindra Navistar is also aming at 15% market share in a period of 3 years.
May be possible for VECL, but Mahindra 15% in 3 years is quite ambitious.
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Originally Posted by kadri007 View Post
Also you have Hino, AMW, MAN, Swaraj Mazda all competing for the same share. This will deffinitely impact Tata's and Leyland's.
My take is these new comers will fight with each other to grab market share with out affecting TM/AL in the near term.
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Old 8th January 2010, 11:59   #2139
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Originally Posted by amit V8 View Post
i think this is the MM TOURISTER bus with an ugly skin and a navistar badge.
This is the Tourister!
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Old 8th January 2010, 13:47   #2140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
Dear Binai, I just mentioned that I didn't see Cheetah in Ghats (lived there for almost ten years). The conclusion is your addition! My point is Ashley's observation that Cheetahs are mainly used in hilly regions doesn't really tally with what I had seen in Kerala over ten years (which is long enough I think). So perhaps there might be some other reason. Or while purchasing that was the reason and while assigning to depots/routes the reasoning was lost! This after all is KeSRTC!

I have seen Cheetahs (in not so hilly routes by Kerala standards) a few times also. But I do have the gut feeling (no data on excel sheet to support) that the majority of KeSRTC fleet is Vikings. Perhaps you know better.

Thanks for the pictures.
Another victim.
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Old 8th January 2010, 16:01   #2141
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Originally Posted by prmd_cochin View Post
Ugly. very ugly. MM got a thick skin to display this field at Delhi autoshow.
It probably is not the best looking bus, but we have seen even worse ones before now havent we.
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Old 8th January 2010, 18:11   #2142
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Originally Posted by Finject View Post
It probably is not the best looking bus, but we have seen even worse ones before now havent we.
That was the, when we all didnt have access to better designs, and the market was less competitive. Not now when things are so better.
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Old 8th January 2010, 18:45   #2143
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Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
My point is Ashley's observation that Cheetahs are mainly used in hilly regions doesn't really tally with what I had seen in Kerala over ten years (which is long enough I think).
Not really. KeSRTC often drops the badging when the bus comes out of their body building units. I recently saw original 12M Leyland buses (I mean the ones with the Hino 177HP engines) being badged as Vikings. It is very possible that older Cheetahs were not carrying the badging.

On the Pathanamthitta-Gavi-Kumily route, KeSRTC currently operates a Cheetah - I believe this route has narrow turns and sharp curves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddikt View Post
Dont get me wrong here. But Trapezio clearly said that he has never seen any Cheetahs. Does that mean KeSRTC does not have any Cheetahs ?
My answer indirectly said that KeSRTC indeed has Cheetahs, and just because they weren't seen at "their domain" does not mean they do not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
You see either Cheetahs or Vikings. Remember that AL buses rarely come with factory frtted front end (cowl). Since body builders have absolute freedom to fabicrate their own front ends on ALs, the badging usually disappears. You need to look into the RC book or the owner's manual for accurate information. The third, authoritative method, of course, is to look at the front overhang.
Exactly. I've seen KeSRTC buses appearing with the wrong badging, very often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
IIRC, Coimbatore - Ooty TN buses are Vikings.
Yes. They are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
And I have already stated - KeSRTC buses on Nedumangad - Ponmudi route are neither Cheetahs nor Vikings, but truck chassis (that was 15 years back).
Do you mean this kind of buses? (Just for my information).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
Also, I never mentioned that there is no KeSRTC Cheetahs. Binai has posted some superb pictures of KeSRTC Cheetahs from his collection.
Apologies if I jumped the gun - but that reply was just an indirect way of reply that KeSRTC does have Cheetahs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
My basic doubt (which started all this!) is that I have a feeling that KeSRTC fleet's majority seems to be Vikings.

Is that true?

If true, why is it skewed towards Vikings?
Majority of the "New" Fleet are Vikings. (I mean fleets introduced since the Ganesh Kumar era). Earlier, it used to be all Cheetahs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prmd_cochin View Post
Arent these small chasis the lynx platform based one ?
Nope. Lynx is an entirely different pattern - their engines are totally different from the ones seen on Cheetah or Viking. The Lynx/Stag are powered by H Series 4 Cyl engines, while the Cheetah/Viking are powered by H Series 6 Cyl engines. You can actually get the difference by the engine sound - the Lynx/Stag buses sound much more harsh.
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Old 8th January 2010, 20:12   #2144
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Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
Do you mean this kind of buses? (Just for my information).

That seems to be a cheetah with a shorter wheelbase. I really cannot say without another vehicle in the frame for comparing. (you mean the Kodungalloor bus from Mala depot, right?

I tried counting the number of pillars, but I find that RAC 478, (again, Mala depot - the white bus with Aluva board) has lesser number of pillars. That one seems to be on a Viking chassis, Even if we allow for non-uniform pillar spacing, this is very confusing.

To resolve, I tried looking up the AL website; the shorter wheel base on Vikings seems to be 5334 mm, which is the longest wheelbase for Cheetahs. Shortest overall length for Vikings is 10325 mm; but for Cheetahs, the longest overall length is 9857 mm.

The search also shows another difference between the Vikings and Cheetahs - Vikings come with 16 PR tyres; Cheetahs come with 14 PR (PR is the number of layers of canvas in the tyre skeleton). I distinctly recall using 18 PR tyres on my Cheetah. Sorry, no bills are preserved.

Edit:- what make is that "alina" you have posted on your picassa album? It is very difficult to make out the hubcaps. The rear overhangs does appear to be drastically sawed off.

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 8th January 2010 at 20:23.
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Old 8th January 2010, 20:40   #2145
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It does seem that Most of KeSRTCs are indeed Vikings.

See Picasa Web Albums - Binai - Kerala Januar...

And the next photo too.
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