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Old 5th July 2007, 15:18   #16
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traditionally leyland trucks have more pulling power v/s tata and tata are better on flat lands as they give better average and are faster.

this was because tata truck chassis and control elements were based on merc trucks which were developed in germany during and after ww2 while leyland truck designs were based on leyland trucks when england was at the height of its power.

so the basics of design was different.

even now tata trucks are cheaper to maintain wrt to leyland and leyland last longer wrt to tata.

there are some models which are unique to tata like the ones used in carrying sand and ore where the steering is behind the front axle . and also the 407 range which i asume has to be the cheapest lcv ever made in india wrt its versatility
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Old 5th July 2007, 19:47   #17
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Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
Wrong........ kerala has very Wrong Mindset about Tata Vehicles.. The reason Fot TATA 1210 being extensievely used in Kerala is because of the semi forward cab design (like cars - engine in front).. Which Leyland never had a model and the highlands guys found it more better.. (God knows for what)

Sorry Leyland too had a Semi Forward cab design, which never quite cut the cake. The 1210SE came, saw and kept conquering.

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Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
And ajo if highlands find TATA better ,.. how will you explain the overabundance of Leyland buses in all the Highlands?? Palai, Wynad, Nilambur, Idukki and alll..
(Hino)
Highlands are not only in the parts mentioned by you, on the REAL highlands on the northern part of India where the Himalayas are situated, you can buy a lottery when you see a Lay-land. Private or public there isn't anything other than TATA (I guess its also about peoples mindset that when they want to travel they WANT to say "Tata"). Leyland does sell at places where some officials decide which brand of vehicles to induct in the fleet.

Anyway wanted to know something very basic, I had been a big fan of Tata trucks from my early childhood (and all my notebooks were lined with 1210E faces maybe because the Leylands never had a face only names which are as mocho-est as it can get in India - Cheetah, Tusker, Viking Oh God what names) but I have always wanted to decipher the real meanings behind the designations 1210, 1510, 1516 turbo etc (now they seem to have 1312, 1512 etc 2514 which I think they share with AL , or is the AL designation different). I also want to know the name designations of the Leylands (for the Viking Comet etc)
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Old 5th July 2007, 20:36   #18
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From what I remember about TATA it's something like this:

1210 - 12 tons payload & 100 bhp
1312 - 13 tons payload & 120 bhp
1512 - 15 tons payload & 120 bhp

I could be wrong about this though.
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Old 5th July 2007, 22:07   #19
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
From what I remember about TATA it's something like this:

1210 - 12 tons payload & 100 bhp
1312 - 13 tons payload & 120 bhp
1512 - 15 tons payload & 120 bhp

I could be wrong about this though.
so the last 2 designates the engine and whatever before the last 2 the chassis.

I can follow the same logic upto 407 and 207 though (although the 207 and 407 had different engines to make up about 70 bhp).

But then did 608 have a different engine from the 407?

Even now 712 ex (is the most probably the DICOR-ised 407 engine) but 410 EX?

Just guessing though 709 could be turbocharged 407 engine.
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Old 5th July 2007, 22:24   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor
The 15 year rule is supposed to be applicable for metros. Hope they do ..
Yikes!
We've got a '92 407 with us and my in-house mech is pushing me to sell it.
Does anyone here have a owner's review of the 407 Turbo??
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Old 6th July 2007, 00:03   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
But then did 608 have a different engine from the 407?

Even now 712 ex (is the most probably the DICOR-ised 407 engine) but 410 EX?

Just guessing though 709 could be turbocharged 407 engine.
608 and 407 have different engines- and obviously one is a 4-tonner and the other 6.

The EX range denotes those models where the chassis is supplied with a fully built driver cab.
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Old 6th July 2007, 00:15   #22
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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Highlands are not only in the parts mentioned by you, on the REAL highlands on the northern part of India where the Himalayas are situated, you can buy a lottery when you see a Lay-land.

Leyland does sell at places where some officials decide which brand of vehicles to induct in the fleet.

Leylands never had a face only names which are as mocho-est as it can get in India - Cheetah, Tusker, Viking Oh God what names) I also want to know the name designations of the Leylands (for the Viking Comet etc)

In Kerala, as has been mentioned, even teh private operators run Leylands in teh high ranges.

In TN, once upon a time, in Nilgiris District (Ooty area) and Madurai District (Kodaikanal area), there used to be Tatas for the highlands - now they are all Leylands. the North Indian market has had a special love for Tatas, and that is perhaps why they are more popular in Himachal and J&K. But please note that these Tata buses in the Himalayan highlands are short buses - not the normal full-length ones - and may be running the same engines, giving them a lighter payload but a lot more power. Leyland never could come up with a good short bus although they did try with the Cargo passenger vehicles (which incidentally is used to run on the Srinagar (J&K)-Muzafarabad (POK) route nowadays.

I am sure no one will miss the fact that the entire Indian military runs on Leyland Stallions nowadays, having moved away from the earlier Shaktiman (an old Tata model) and these run on the toughest mountain terrains in the world. When I was in Ladakh, my Matiz car failed to climb up the world's highest road - the Marisimk La (taller than the Khardung la) - but the army guys told me that they do it regularly in their Leyland Stallions.

The last 3 years have seen Leyland take almost a total monopoly in tractor-trailers, starting first with their 2514s, consolidating with the 3516s and now strangling the competition with its 4018s (40-tonner). The Volvo FH12 is ousted from the highway market, although I can see the AMW's 49-tonner catching up fast in that category. Tata has lost out on this segment even in "Tata-centric" markets in the Delhi region.

And yes, Leyland is very strong in the STU segment - but that is also a testimonial to that they are considered to be more breakdown-proof (in testing public transport abusive driving conditions) and turn out better mileage. They seem to have, however, lost out in the CNG bus category to Tata.
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Old 6th July 2007, 00:52   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
608 and 407 have different engines- and obviously one is a 4-tonner and the other 6.

The EX range denotes those models where the chassis is supplied with a fully built driver cab.

Thanks, actually the 207 and 407 ranges had a little bit of engine sharing. Like the 407 engine moving into the Spacio and then the 3.0 dicor engine moving back to the 712 etc.

But 608 (and also 609) just by the designation (based on the naming convention) means there is a DI engine with 80/90 bhp output which did not make way into the utility vehicles. Any details, about the capacity and number of cylinders etc.
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Old 6th July 2007, 01:00   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100
the 3.0 dicor engine moving back to the 712 etc.
U mean there's a Tata CV with a common-rail engine??
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Old 6th July 2007, 01:16   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
U mean there's a Tata CV with a common-rail engine??
Just guessing!! Cos the 712 is just too recent and more or less coincided with the success of the 115bhp DICOR engine. So I guess they have put that engine in the new 712 (based on the nomenclature logic given earlier, 712 should be around 120 bhp). Could be a whole new engine though.

Anyway these are the questions I have been having since long.
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Old 6th July 2007, 01:51   #26
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Dont have info about the 712,but here's info about the 713[5675cc,Direct injection,approx 120bhp.]
Tata Motors - International Business


But check here,the 613 seems to be having the same engine[sorry if I am wrong]:
Tata Motors - International Business

No common rail engines yet is what I feel.

Last edited by rahul_intlad : 6th July 2007 at 01:58.
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Old 6th July 2007, 08:58   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
From what I remember about TATA it's something like this:

1210 - 12 tons payload & 100 bhp
1312 - 13 tons payload & 120 bhp
1512 - 15 tons payload & 120 bhp

I could be wrong about this though.
Ot is Noy Payload, Itz is Gross Vehicle weight.. Fully loaded
Leyland too has the same nomenclature.. check the models in the wesbite..

Last edited by Jomz : 6th July 2007 at 09:03.
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Old 6th July 2007, 09:02   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
U mean there's a Tata CV with a common-rail engine??
Leyland well have one soon.... Leyland had showcased the Commonrail CV engine in Ayto Expo 2006... Will hit production

Anyway i worked on that Engine...
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Old 6th July 2007, 09:24   #29
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AL engine power in the Hino series is much better and refined . There are D series and E series engines ,but the basic fact as to why Tata excels in the highlands are because of the gearing .

The gearing of the Tata vehicles is very much suited for highlands and river beds thereby making it more suitable .

Now Tata has engines from cummins and the cummins turbo isnt as fuel efficeint as the AL Hino series . I have been seeing a lot of STU changing over to leyland over Tata.
Incidentally I have also been seeing Eicher buses in Bangalore STU .
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Old 6th July 2007, 09:45   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Sorry Leyland too had a Semi Forward cab design, which never quite cut the cake. The 1210SE came, saw and kept conquering.



Highlands are not only in the parts mentioned by you, on the REAL highlands on the northern part of India where the Himalayas are situated, you can buy a lottery when you see a Lay-land. Private or public there isn't anything other than TATA (I guess its also about peoples mindset that when they want to travel they WANT to say "Tata"). Leyland does sell at places where some officials decide which brand of vehicles to induct in the fleet.

Anyway wanted to know something very basic, I had been a big fan of Tata trucks from my early childhood (and all my notebooks were lined with 1210E faces maybe because the Leylands never had a face only names which are as mocho-est as it can get in India - Cheetah, Tusker, Viking Oh God what names) but I have always wanted to decipher the real meanings behind the designations 1210, 1510, 1516 turbo etc (now they seem to have 1312, 1512 etc 2514 which I think they share with AL , or is the AL designation different). I also want to know the name designations of the Leylands (for the Viking Comet etc)
Ohh 3 posts in a row.. Was replying to varoius posts mods forgive me..

Leyland name Desgnations
VIKING, CHEETAH :- Bus chassis
TUSKER:- 6 X 2
TAURUS:- 6 X 4
HIPPO ,BEAVER :- >1000Nm torque vehicles, Using the good ol' 680 cubic inch engine >12L
COMET:- 4 X 2 Small truck; 4 X 4 available on request
LYNX, STAG :- Minibuses
STALLION :- Defence Vehicle 6 X 6, 4 X 4 (this is the ones which you'd see in the highlands of your so called highlands- Leh- starts in snow and runs with snow chains.. there YOU can buy a lottery if you find a TATA, sorry that i had to say this to a TATA fan) But unfortunately Not for public sale.. I always wanted to buy one and drive it over the ricks in bangalore.. and wanted it painted yellow too
FAT :- Field artillery tractor ; Available only in 6 X 6
LRV :- Light recovery vehicle; 4 X 4 a stallion derivative
HMV :-High mobility vehicle; 6 X 6 stallion with large up- down travel of wheels.for ofroading
BISON :-semi forward control Model 4 X 2, advertised But Never reached mass production.
ECOMET:- sort of a big LCV
CARGO:- DISCONTINUED, LCV's
ARTIK :- TRACTOR TRAILERS

Well there are lot more and names are like the company feels like..If anybody feels it awkward,
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