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Old 6th February 2008, 17:07   #286
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Is the B7R 40 lakhs? One sales guy apparently working with Volvo said it is 80 lakhs...
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Old 6th February 2008, 18:56   #287
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i believe its now 80 -78 now..but it was never as low as 40 for sure
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Old 6th February 2008, 19:11   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
TATAS are the UNDISPUTED KINGS as far as commercial vehicles are considers. Indias largest and worlds 5th largest commercial vehicle manufactures.
they have more than 400 models of vehicles to suit each and every need of customers. Also they are dominant in other countries like South Africa, sri lanka, ukraine etc.
they have very fuel efficient and high quality engines. leylands run mostly on traditional Perkinsons type designs.
in India 75 % market runs on Tata. leylands found in 25% market in south only. Besides leylands have a very noisy engines. tatas are smooth with smoother gear boxes.
To correct some facts,

Leyland does have models to suit every need. International biggies don't have more than 400 models, standardization being the key word . anyway my point is Nobody need 400+ models to cater to the indian customer.
Leyland is dominant in the above countries and In the MIDDLE EAST too. Heck, Leyland has a plant in Sri lanka and dubai to cater to those markets
Leyland never used a perkins engine, HINO engines used in Leyland gives more fuel efficency than a cummins.
Leyland Licensed the production of ZF gearboxes, and leyland makes that in their plants and those are the best of the lot.
Higher idle setting on a tata cummins make it appear smooth,Heck even if you raise your 1984 engine to 1000 rpm it appears smooth.
And again check on your percentages.
Please check on your facts before posting bull****.
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Old 7th February 2008, 11:20   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
To correct some facts,

Leyland does have models to suit every need. International biggies don't have more than 400 models, standardization being the key word . anyway my point is Nobody need 400+ models to cater to the indian customer.
Leyland is dominant in the above countries and In the MIDDLE EAST too. Heck, Leyland has a plant in Sri lanka and dubai to cater to those markets
Leyland never used a perkins engine, HINO engines used in Leyland gives more fuel efficency than a cummins.
Leyland Licensed the production of ZF gearboxes, and leyland makes that in their plants and those are the best of the lot.
Higher idle setting on a tata cummins make it appear smooth,Heck even if you raise your 1984 engine to 1000 rpm it appears smooth.
And again check on your percentages.
Please check on your facts before posting bull****.
YA thats why market speaks Ashok Leyland Share costs ~ Rs 35 and Tata Shares cost ~ Rs.800 i.e 22 times higher.
And who discovered the funda of engine being smooth when idling RPM raised. when ur vechile is running at speeds of 40-60 its not in idling. Ashok leyland trucks and buses can be known from far distance just hearing to their load noises. When u sit in ashok leyland buses u cant even sleep due to the noise. and the vibrations they suck.
Even the driver sitting in the cabin gets damn irritated due to the crapy sound.
and regarding the cummins engine. they are one of the best. LOW RPM HIGH TORQUE engines, best suited for city buses.
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Old 7th February 2008, 12:10   #290
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Quote:
Mpower : Those are CNG tanks. Its a CNG bus chassis going to the body builder. Another clue is the looong rear overhang.
THe rear over hang shouldnt be so important a factor. Leylands have always had a longer rear overhang compared to Tata's.

The question is, what's the difference between the Diesel & the CNG engine that power these busses.
Quote:
amit_mechengg : those These are mostly used in delhi for public transport. DTDC
DTC isnt the only one. Other public transport co's also do - Amdavad AMTS, GSRTC, BEST etc ..
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Old 7th February 2008, 12:18   #291
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
THe rear over hang shouldnt be so important a factor. Leylands have always had a longer rear overhang compared to Tata's.

The question is, what's the difference between the Diesel & the CNG engine that power these busses.DTC isnt the only one. Other public transport co's also do - Amdavad AMTS, GSRTC, BEST etc ..
They usually share the block and the bottom end. The engine has a new head whith sparkplugs, like a gasoline engine.
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Old 7th February 2008, 13:40   #292
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i think we should start putting up pictures of all the public transport buses in the cities, can be a good pictorial and good info cn be shared.. i don think that if there is a thread already on this one.
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Old 7th February 2008, 19:49   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
THe rear over hang shouldnt be so important a factor. Leylands have always had a longer rear overhang compared to Tata's.
What I mean is that compared to trucks, buses have a larger rear overhang. I didnt mean TATA vs ALL
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Old 7th February 2008, 20:08   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
they have more than 400 models of vehicles to suit each and every need of customers. Also they are dominant in other countries like South Africa, sri lanka, ukraine etc.
You mean 400 models at one time? I am sure they don't. You can combine Commercial / passenger car section as well but can't reach that figure in India.

Quote:
they have very fuel efficient and high quality engines. leylands run mostly on traditional Perkinsons type designs. in India 75 % market runs on Tata. leylands found in 25% market in south only. Besides leylands have a very noisy engines. tatas are smooth with smoother gear boxes.
Leyland's do not run on any old technologies. AFAIK most of the Leylands at any time had better tech than Tata for the bus market at least. This is what I learnt from my little interaction with bus drivers. They preferred the Leyland for handling, climbing ghats, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
B7R is for 40 lacs plus and globus is much cheaper. Volvo engine is more torquier and better than globus. comfort is almost the same except the air suspensions in volvo with give u the best ride
B7R was never 40 lakhs. Please get your facts cleared up. Neither does Tata hold 75% market in the commercial vehicle section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
YA thats why market speaks Ashok Leyland Share costs ~ Rs 35 and Tata Shares cost ~ Rs.800 i.e 22 times higher.
See the product portfolio of Tata and then compare. Tata has passenger cars also included. Share price values don't prove who is a better manufacturer.

Quote:
And who discovered the funda of engine being smooth when idling RPM raised. when ur vechile is running at speeds of 40-60 its not in idling. Ashok leyland trucks and buses can be known from far distance just hearing to their load noises. When u sit in ashok leyland buses u cant even sleep due to the noise. and the vibrations they suck.
I'm sure you traveled in a poorly maintained vehicle. Until 2005 ALL of BEST buses were Ashok Leylands. Any reason?

Quote:
Even the driver sitting in the cabin gets damn irritated due to the crapy sound.
and regarding the cummins engine. they are one of the best. LOW RPM HIGH TORQUE engines, best suited for city buses.
So probably BEST Mumbai liked to trouble their drivers by giving them a low torque Ashok Leyland with a noisy cabin giving out crappy sounds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
THe rear over hang shouldnt be so important a factor. Leylands have always had a longer rear overhang compared to Tata's.

The question is, what's the difference between the Diesel & the CNG engine that power these busses.DTC isnt the only one. Other public transport co's also do - Amdavad AMTS, GSRTC, BEST etc ..
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Old 7th February 2008, 21:03   #295
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I don't know whether Tata or AL is better...

But one thing is sure. They both have to improve quite a lot before they can think about many portions (shall I say big portions) of the world CV market!
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Old 8th February 2008, 10:49   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
You mean 400 models at one time? I am sure they don't. You can combine Commercial / passenger car section as well but can't reach that figure in India.




I'm sure you traveled in a poorly maintained vehicle. Until 2005 ALL of BEST buses were Ashok Leylands. Any reason?



So probably BEST Mumbai liked to trouble their drivers by giving them a low torque Ashok Leyland with a noisy cabin giving out crappy sounds?
i think u dont know what all models are available in the market in india and overseas. precisely there are 412 live models right now running with tata motors. will give u some examples which might not have even come to ur mind. there are models which go to the military which have turbo, then power take off units and what not, all in diff models. then comes with canopy without canopy. then comes diff models of engines. then the cabs and cowls with sleeper coach without sleepers. then comes with chassis lengths. them comes with BHP and load carrying capacity. then comes with EURO norms. then comes with AXLES. double axle. whether dead axle or live axles etc. u wont even imagine the models available as u see only trucks and cars. u dont see the models boss.

and regarding the buses those days are gone long back when ashok leylands were dominent in bus market. mainly these buses were cheaper than tatas. but now even in pune PMT are shifting to tata. with the low floor and the rear engine. besides all private companies like infy geometrics TCS and many other use tata buses which are silent and smooth for their employees.

and i am not saying ashok leyland has low torque. brush up ur mind on the concept of low RPM high torque. BEST mumbai might be liking the loud sound of leyland engines like u like . and pvt companies dont like their employees to go in noisy buses after tiry office hours.
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Old 8th February 2008, 13:33   #297
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the BS3 MUTP buses are one of the smoothesh and most silent buses around ever built by AL take a ride in them and you will know how LOUD does AL sound inside the cabin.

agreed TATA's are less noisy.. but AL IS BETTER atleast in this department.
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Old 8th February 2008, 14:44   #298
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Quote:
Mpower : What I mean is that compared to trucks, buses have a larger rear overhang. I didnt mean TATA vs ALL
@Mpower, The cargo vs passenger reference point was missing, and hence the confusion. Didnt intend to do a AL vs Tata comparison in my post either. The comparison was only to quote an example.
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Old 9th February 2008, 13:42   #299
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would any of you gentlemen know any dealbreaker issues with the 40 seater tata starbus ? Just paid the advance for one. and dad wanted to know if you guys had any opinions on this one (after all the advice we've gotten on the indica, he 's really begun to value team bhp advice )
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Old 9th February 2008, 13:53   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
i think u dont know what all models are available in the market in india and overseas. precisely there are 412 live models right now running with tata motors. will give u some examples which might not have even come to ur mind. there are models which go to the military which have turbo, then power take off units and what not, all in diff models. then comes with canopy without canopy. then comes diff models of engines. then the cabs and cowls with sleeper coach without sleepers. then comes with chassis lengths. them comes with BHP and load carrying capacity. then comes with EURO norms. then comes with AXLES. double axle. whether dead axle or live axles etc. u wont even imagine the models available as u see only trucks and cars. u dont see the models boss.
If you counted 412 live models with all that nit bit spec then it is possible but your post is too difficult to read so I give it a pass. Also it would help if you can do with some less slang.

Quote:
and regarding the buses those days are gone long back when ashok leylands were dominent in bus market. mainly these buses were cheaper than tatas. but now even in pune PMT are shifting to tata. with the low floor and the rear engine. besides all private companies like infy geometrics TCS and many other use tata buses which are silent and smooth for their employees.
Seems you are not following the ongoing consumer court case against Tata motors for the entire defective lot of Tata's low floor buses given to the PMT. Mind you, these buses have been taken off road for quite some time. Buses nearly 10-15 years old are still operational with PMT? Most of these are Ashok Leylands for your information. Although battered and unfit for the road, these buses still run and break down down but heck they spent so much life on the road. Much more than the low floor buses did!!

Quote:
and i am not saying ashok leyland has low torque. brush up ur mind on the concept of low RPM high torque. BEST mumbai might be liking the loud sound of leyland engines like u like . and pvt companies dont like their employees to go in noisy buses after tiry office hours.
I shall surely brush up my mind but first I need a newer set of english text books to understand what you wrote here!
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