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Old 6th November 2013, 22:26   #46
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
Yes it does, but imagine a scenario where a truck has to travel from point A to point D and it needs to do this via points B & C. It makes complete sense to transport the entire truck between points B & C rather than to unload them at B and then load them again at C. This is exactly what Konkan Railways is doing.
Yes, and also its not just the fuel efficiency that we need to take. In that case no one should ever fly between Bangalore and Delhi as aircrafts are highly polluting and much less fuel efficient. A B737 takes close to 3.5 hrs to travel from Blr to Del and it burns about 4000 ltrs per hour. This is close to 14000 ltrs of jet fuel. If you go by car, it takes just about 150 ltrs of diesel considering a distance of 2200 kms with 15kmpl.

Usually freight trains run empty one way and they cannot afford to shut the bogies for a long time, so rather than running empty they can chose to load these trucks and get some revenue + service to lorries and we get the goods transported quicker - opportunity cost!

I am not an economist, but if people haven't understood the value, I am sure this service would have bitten the dust a long time ago.
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Old 7th November 2013, 12:00   #47
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

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Usually freight trains run empty one way and they cannot afford to shut the bogies for a long time, so rather than running empty they can chose to load these trucks and get some revenue + service to lorries and we get the goods transported quicker - opportunity cost!
I am afraid, but RoRo doesn't use "empties" to carry truck - they use dedicated rakes to carry trucks. The rakes used for the RoRo services are interconnected end-to-end so that the trucks enter from one side and can be driven all the way to the other end of the rake. (A rake is a combination of a number of coaches/wagons).

In reality, there isn't much of a time saving - the promised delivery time is 24 hours, but it isn't always so, especially during vacations.
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Old 7th November 2013, 12:55   #48
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

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I am afraid, but RoRo doesn't use "empties" to carry truck - they use dedicated rakes to carry trucks. The rakes used for the RoRo services are interconnected end-to-end so that the trucks enter from one side and can be driven all the way to the other end of the rake. (A rake is a combination of a number of coaches/wagons).

In reality, there isn't much of a time saving - the promised delivery time is 24 hours, but it isn't always so, especially during vacations.
Isnt KR's RoRo service a scheduled freight service, like the container trains run by Concor. Of course like with passenger trains there will always be a bit of delays, but I think the average speed as well as precedence of the RoRo service will be higher than any usual freight train.
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Old 7th November 2013, 13:01   #49
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

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Isnt KR's RoRo service a scheduled freight service, like the container trains run by Concor. Of course like with passenger trains there will always be a bit of delays, but I think the average speed as well as precedence of the RoRo service will be higher than any usual freight train.
It used to be so in the good olden days when it was introduced. Over a period of time, it became a normal freight train - of course, it still has priority over "normal" freight trains. During holiday seasons, they end up getting detained at various places to accomodate the holiday special trains, and often the locomotives allotted to RoRo trains get used as relief locomotives when some loco fails enroute.
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Old 7th November 2013, 13:48   #50
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

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Sandeep, isn't the WDG4 15-20% more fuel efficient than the WDG3A? I'd used some rough figures in the calculation above, please correct them if my estimates are way off.
Well it is if you were to compare it to old WDM2 class locomotives. It is rare to find a WDM2 behind a freight train nowadays. The newer Shaktis/WDG3A, WDM3D/3F are more efficient, thanks to electronic governors and common rail fuel injection (Still in phases of implementation).

My previous number was not right. It is 10-11% better fuel economy.

Maintenance is another area. The Alco's require attention every 15 days or so compared to the 90 days for the EMD's.

Getting back to the point, now that you highlighted the difference, it is a lot cheaper to ro ro the trucks.
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Old 7th November 2013, 14:03   #51
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

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I am waiting for the day when the railways will allow us to lease a coach...
Indian Railways offers such a service. You can lease their super luxurious Saloon coaches. Read up the Railway Timetable for details on how to do it. But in effect you can give them a route map and they will hitch the coach to the right trains. For example, if you wish to do a circular tour of India with 10 stoppage points then Railways will hitch the coaches to multiple trains to get you there as per your schedule requirement.

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Yes, and also its not just the fuel efficiency that we need to take. In that case no one should ever fly between Bangalore and Delhi as aircrafts are highly polluting and much less fuel efficient. A B737 takes close to 3.5 hrs to travel from Blr to Del and it burns about 4000 ltrs per hour. This is close to 14000 ltrs of jet fuel. If you go by car, it takes just about 150 ltrs of diesel considering a distance of 2200 kms with 15kmpl.
Air travel is possibly the most fuel efficient (not including ships) mode of travel. Going by your numbers above, a B737 carries upwards of 100 passengers. If all these passengers undertook a car journey then the fuel burnt would be 150 ltr x 100 = 15,000 ltr which is less than the 14,000 ltr of jet fuel used to transport those 100 passengers. What is more efficient?
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Old 7th November 2013, 23:22   #52
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

A car can take 4 people, so 100 passengers need 25 cars. Thus @ 150 ltrs we need approx 4000 ltrs of fuel. I didn't say each guy drove his own car. Probably I didn't explain my point fully earlier. Hope I did my math right??
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Old 8th November 2013, 11:11   #53
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

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Originally Posted by srinih75 View Post
A car can take 4 people, so 100 passengers need 25 cars. Thus @ 150 ltrs we need approx 4000 ltrs of fuel. I didn't say each guy drove his own car. Probably I didn't explain my point fully earlier. Hope I did my math right??
It's highly unlikely that the car will be fully occupied. I personally will find it hard to accommodate 3 total strangers in my car if I was to drive and I'm sure a lot of us feel that way. Either way we are going off topic now.

In your airplane scenario you are only concentrating on passengers, but what about all the freight and courier parcels that they carry? If airplanes were inefficient, they wouldn't be such a popular mode of transport.
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Old 8th November 2013, 20:25   #54
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

So what is the average passenger density we are looking at? 2 per car? Still it means 7500 ltrs. Each passenger if in the airplane carries 2 check in baggage and 2 carry on, then it will fit in the average cars cargo hold (trunk + back seat).

I do not deny aircrafts are greatest innovations in modern transport, they are fast and today's aircrafts are efficient in its own way. For the range and speed and power it generates and propels, the fuel it consumes is much lesser than what a F1 car or a super charged fossil fuel engine can generate to match that speed.

Once an aircraft is in cruise mode and above 30000 ft they are super efficient as there is very less drag, and using the curvature of earth and at times leveraging the tail wind aircrafts like B747 and B777 are marvelous machines.

But coming to my point of cars vs aircrafts was to compare the fuel efficiency talked about diesel locomotive vs diesel engines of individual trucks.

So my question is which is more fuel efficient? A 6 cylinder 7ltr engine of volvo carrying 50 passengers or as much as 12-13 cars carrying same number of passengers which has engines giving mileage of 15 kmpl? It would be true a bus will be far more efficient in terms of consuming fuel, but only when it is full.

So since many feel that an aircraft which is a mass transport mode is more fuel efficient, then the argument of an RoRo being more fuel efficient than individual trucks holds good as well, isn't it?
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Old 7th February 2014, 00:23   #55
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

Here is a video that I got to shoot recently of a WDG4 pulling along some trucks

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Old 8th February 2014, 10:04   #56
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

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Originally Posted by sarathlal View Post
Here is a video that I got to shoot recently of a WDG4 pulling along some trucks

Wow!

What is this? Typical packers n movers trucks, trucks carrying commercial goods, oil tankers, etc. everything being transported by train? Is this some new technique by the transportation biz to reduce costs?
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Old 8th February 2014, 16:12   #57
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Default Re: Trucks on a Train

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
Is this some new technique by the transportation biz to reduce costs?
This was started by Konkan railways few years back (guess around 10 years). Called as Rollon-Rolloff service.
This helps trucks in saving time, fuel and mostly harassment at check-posts en-route.
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Old 8th February 2014, 16:52   #58
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Post Re: Trucks on a Train

Caught a video of the RORO from inside of a tunnel, when I was on my vacations at my native place in Konkan



Note: The force of the air just pulls you towards the train! Please don't try this!

Last edited by nishantdlv : 8th February 2014 at 16:56.
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