Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Commercial Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th October 2011, 14:34   #91
BHPian
 
AlphaKilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: VOMM-EDDW-EDDM
Posts: 773
Thanked: 362 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post
A small query: Why does the Volvo multi-axle has its trailing axle (single wheel) at the front whereas the Mercedes multi-axle has its trailing axle (single wheel) at the back of the main axle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
There is no particular reason for it to be like that. Volvo's B12B also has the trailing axle behind the powered axle. There were rumours that the B12B will be the next product to be launched by Volvo in India
In Europe, the Mercs/Most multi-axle buses have steerable trailing axles for better maneouvreablitiy. I dont think the Indian models have the steerable wheels at the trailing axle. Although the bus retains(mercs only) the same engine(detuned) and rest configuration remains the same sans the restroom facility. In Europe, even the Volvos dont have steerable wheels and the config is similar to indian ones. Keeping the steering point far behind helps in turning a huge 15mts bus(euro spec.) In India they have retained the chassis as such so the config. I am not sure if that is the real reason but there has to be reason behind the trailing axle position.
AlphaKilo is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 15:30   #92
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post
A small query: Why does the Volvo multi-axle has its trailing axle (single wheel) at the front whereas the Mercedes multi-axle has its trailing axle (single wheel) at the back of the main axle?
Though its not clear why Volvo brought this design but MB have some advantage when the tag axle is behind drive axle.
Dummy tyre wear in MB much lesser compared to Volvo.
When the rear axle is approaching a bump, when its received by a twin tyre rear axle as in MB the shock received by passenger will be comparatively less than as in the case of single tyre rear axle as in the case of Volvo. Though this effect can be reduced by providing softer suspension but it will still have some effect on tyre wear.

Apart from this MB has a larger wheel base which translates to higher luggage compartment 11Cu.m Vs 10 Cu.m.
Also globally all majority of the Multi axles has tag axle at the rear and drive axle before that.
From Vanhool Astromega to Neoplan Starliner and Scania Touring to Man Lions coach
Ashley2 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 17:24   #93
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: -
Posts: 858
Thanked: 1,002 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Though its not clear why Volvo brought this design but MB have some advantage when the tag axle is behind drive axle.
Dummy tyre wear in MB much lesser compared to Volvo.
When the rear axle is approaching a bump, when its received by a twin tyre rear axle as in MB the shock received by passenger will be comparatively less than as in the case of single tyre rear axle as in the case of Volvo. Though this effect can be reduced by providing softer suspension but it will still have some effect on tyre wear.

Apart from this MB has a larger wheel base which translates to higher luggage compartment 11Cu.m Vs 10 Cu.m.
Also globally all majority of the Multi axles has tag axle at the rear and drive axle before that.
From Vanhool Astromega to Neoplan Starliner and Scania Touring to Man Lions coach
Going by international builders, Volvo seems to have the odder design. Probably they found it easier to couple the drivetrain to the driven axle. Thanks Ashley2.
swiftdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 17:39   #94
Senior - BHPian
 
black12rr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ridin earth now
Posts: 1,259
Thanked: 272 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

Does these buses such as mercs or volvos have toilets/rest room in them ? . I have never traveled in these hence asking .
black12rr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 19:07   #95
Senior - BHPian
 
scopriobharath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,565
Thanked: 1,175 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

No - There are no toilets. There was a Hyderabad Bangalore Bus (Non Volvo) with a toilet. To know how (in)convenient it is just step into the bus. Trust me the whole bus stinks. In fact i do not book in a bus which has toilet facility.

The average Joe does not leave the toilet clean. People use the wash basin to "shave" their beards / moustache etc and not use it just to wash hands post toilet usage.

In the west almost all buses have a toilet, which is clean and usable. In India for a clean toilet and all people to be courteous (comparing with USA) to others it will take at least 500 more years.
scopriobharath is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2011, 15:44   #96
BHPian
 
rejoycjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore / Calicut
Posts: 442
Thanked: 708 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

The long cherished dream of traveling with star accomplished yesterday when I traveled from Hyderabad to Bangalore with Orange transports .
We had specially booked this Benz as me and my friend wanted to experience the difference between the 2 direct competitors in this market .

To be honest , I was very much disappointed with the comfort that the bus offered us . We were sitting in the last but oneth row , and booked it only because of our experiences with volvo buses in the same seat .
The ride was very bumpy and we were almost thrown in the air at almost every single undulation on the road . The side swaying made the ride even worse while negotiating curves .

The only thing that I loved was the gear knob which was very classy compared to the long stick in the volvos
rejoycjohn is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2012, 18:09   #97
BHPian
 
sary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Goa
Posts: 173
Thanked: 7 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

News from the MB bus cockpit:
I came across a Volvo driver who choose to leave a travel company that operated MB buses, reasons:

1. No "tool box" provided with the bus by MB
2. Diesel smell traveled all the way into cabin, passenger often complained. Apperently they changed 7 tanks in 11 months. Known defect !
3. In multi axel buses, the rear axel design i.e. 4 wheels first and single wheel later makes it quite un-menuarable especially when you turn high speed.
4. Very difficult to replace the tyre when punchiered
5. Spare parts scarcity (4 out of 10 buses lying at the operator yard)
6. Expensive to buy one (compared to Volvo)
7. Poor pick up especially on ghat sections

PS: These are the practicalities coming directly from the driver perspective and not from passenger.
sary is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2012, 16:18   #98
Senior - BHPian
 
n.devdath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,960
Thanked: 1,713 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
When the rear axle is approaching a bump, when its received by a twin tyre rear axle as in MB the shock received by passenger will be comparatively less than as in the case of single tyre rear axle as in the case of Volvo. Though this effect can be reduced by providing softer suspension but it will still have some effect on tyre wear.
Sounds true technically, but in reality, I had a very bad experience in the Merc that I traveled in, the day before yesterday. It was new 54k km run multi axle and the journey was a total disappointment, to say the least.
n.devdath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2013, 16:58   #99
BHPian
 
ranjithrnath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Alappuzha
Posts: 124
Thanked: 102 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMATMO View Post
blue lines bangalore had a mercedes benz bus looked like a doudle deck bus above
it was golden biege in colour, bluelines had bought it 2-3 years ago
Found these pics from Yeshwanth Kadri's website
http://kadri007.com/
Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)-bl1.jpg
Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)-bl2.jpg
The coach pics from Sutlej website and Preetam Almeida's picasa web albums
Name:  bl4.JPG
Views: 5586
Size:  41.7 KB
Name:  bl3.jpg
Views: 4877
Size:  84.5 KB
ranjithrnath is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2013, 17:53   #100
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 3,252
Thanked: 4,954 Times
Default

These days I rarely see a Merc doing duty except for the Neeta and the KSRTC ones. Recently I had to travel from Chikmagalur to Bangalore and I chose a Rajahamsa. At the same time there was a Merc headed to Bangalore. I checked it out and it badly needed some attention. Though the exterior was fine, the conductor and driver were not so happy when I asked them about the bus. They said that an old and battered volvo performs well and is also much comfortable for passengers. I havent been on a merc so cant really compare. But I have travelled in various volvos, right from new ones to the oldest ones in KSRTC. Except for the exterior maintenance, they rode well and performed well.

Also I have not seen much Merc multi axles too. It is just volvo volvo everywhere. As Binai said, it could be bad aftersales that are hurting the most. But who really depends upon the manufacturer for servicing etc? Dont they do it locally?
audioholic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2013, 19:13   #101
Senior - BHPian
 
binaiks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KL-47 // KA-51
Posts: 1,726
Thanked: 823 Times
Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Also I have not seen much Merc multi axles too. It is just volvo volvo everywhere. As Binai said, it could be bad aftersales that are hurting the most. But who really depends upon the manufacturer for servicing etc? Dont they do it locally?
They do it locally - but what about getting the spares? MB takes its sweet time to get spares. Accident repairs are even worse - they take anywhere from 1-6 months to repair a bus, where as Volvo does that in 10 days to a month!

Volvo is much more operator friendly when it comes servicing. A lot of operators have their own set of Volvo trained mechanics, and well-stocked spares godowns!
binaiks is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2013, 13:05   #102
BHPian
 
coriollis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MH-14 MH 12
Posts: 201
Thanked: 226 Times
Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Though I agree about the issues with the quality and service issues with Mercedes buses, but your logic here is not sound in my view.

Take a look at the airline industry as an analogy. Big operators like Indigo or Air Asia also keep their fleet variations to a minimum. And they operate the Airbus A320series. But it doesnt mean that the Boeing 737 is not a good product.

So VRL not opting for a Merc is logical, as having a few Mercs among hundred+ of Volvos will not make sense. It will be a service nightmare. But for a smaller operator, it doesnt make that much of a difference.

Hello,
Definitely the Merc product had flaws.

Neeta bought Mercs in a bulk order. Neeta already had a fleet of Volvo's operating for them.

Then why buy a Merc?

They bought it because they had to try a new product which had a great legacy. It was also bought for a novelty factor. At that time operational cost for Volvo's was seen as catastrophic. Market was yet to come to terms to such high recurring costs. The costing models were not geared up to incur such high recurring demands.
Even if they were successful in showing reduced recurring costs, the product would have been a success. They gambled and failed. Merc didn't receive their repeat order as well.

People learn from others mistakes. VRL and many other big players saw the plight of buses bought by Neeta and stayed away.

People pay hard earned money, and expect a reasonable logical return on their investment( Not Neeta though ).

Smaller players didn't matter as they were unable to get a Volvo product as all the slots were occupied. So they bought Mercs and suffered.

And when you are talking about Airbus 320 and Boeing 737 products, please see that these two are proven products first and are at the same level of marketing. So then comes the factor of ease of operation by choosing only one brand. But for that, there has to be some operation at least. Merc didn't give people that chance.

Cheers,
Abhijeet
coriollis is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2013, 15:27   #103
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 444
Thanked: 459 Times
Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

Quote:
And when you are talking about Airbus 320 and Boeing 737 products, please see that these two are proven products first and are at the same level of marketing. So then comes the factor of ease of operation by choosing only one brand. But for that, there has to be some operation at least. Merc didn't give people that chance.
Well said. Airbus A320 family first flew in airline service in 1988, a full 20 years after the Boeing 737. A320 had a lot of teething problems initially, primarily because the product was well ahead of its time (Glass Cockpit for example). A320 successfully came out of the initial troubles to produce one of their most successful aircraft. I am sure the same will be the case for Merc as well in India.
TKMCE is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2013, 23:43   #104
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coriollis View Post
...They bought it because they had to try a new product which had a great legacy. It was also bought for a novelty factor..
People learn from others mistakes. VRL and many other big players saw the plight of buses bought by Neeta and stayed away....
Smaller players didn't matter as they were unable to get a Volvo product as all the slots were occupied. So they bought Mercs and suffered..
None other than Mercedes was responsible for their failure. Everyone wanted to try Merc. People have given very good reception for the simple fact brand Mercedes Benz. In India today Volvo is synonym for luxury bus. But Merc is the pinnacle of premium luxury. With so much heritage it was a big lesson for Mercedes Benz. In my view Merc did few mistakes
- Like many other global markets Merc positioned it higher than Volvo. Though engine capacity, power, torque were higher it lacked critical features like disc brakes. Though there was retarder, engine brake, confidence with drivers was always less. And when Sharma's bus met with accident ( 1st Merc accident? ) this message(if any) spread heavily in market.
- Product did not had the premium for the money it was asking. One such was engine cooling system, OBD etc.
- Mercedes engine was far more efficient than Volvo in terms of fuel performance. But when few engines failed the brand reliability was under question mark. Added to reduced service support it increased the problems.
Kpn buses were off road for more than few days for the want of minor spares.

In case of VRL the issue was their bad experience with Isuzu. They believed big on Isuzu, but it failed. So they stopped anything to try new. Even now they have not thought of Scania. So until the dust settles they may not go for newer ones.
Ashley2 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2013, 00:01   #105
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default Re: Mercedes-Benz launches Intercity coaches (2 and 3 axle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
And when Sharma's bus met with accident ( 1st Merc accident? ) this message(if any) spread heavily in market.

- Product did not had the premium for the money it was asking. One such was engine cooling system, OBD etc.
- Mercedes engine was far more efficient than Volvo in terms of fuel performance. But when few engines failed the brand reliability was under question mark
Do you have any more details on the FE & reliability issues of the engines?

What is lacking in the cooling system and was the Sharma accident due to product failure?

Last edited by Mpower : 4th June 2013 at 00:11.
Mpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon? Ashley2 Commercial Vehicles 68 28th February 2017 21:43
Volvo launches two new large capacity 5-axle dump trucks Tushar Commercial Vehicles 0 27th November 2015 17:09
Ashok Leyland launches new 5 axle 3718il Rigid Truck swiftdiesel Commercial Vehicles 40 1st October 2015 14:33
Mercedes Benz launches the E250 V6 petrol and E250 CDI Blue Efficiency in India Dippy The Indian Car Scene 34 9th May 2010 17:52
Mercedes Benz launches the GL350 CDI and the new S500 L in India Dippy The Indian Car Scene 28 13th January 2010 11:54


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:48.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks