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Old 22nd April 2009, 14:38   #16
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Default Live or Solid

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Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
i too think this is right off set. Seeing this i see a possibility of the trax being offered with live front axle just like done here. When a Matadoor on which the trax is based can be offered with front dead axle then why not trax? Infact in one of the pickup versions it is offered with dead axle front. Comooon force, just make it live
The Gurkha is Live, Just make it SOLID
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Old 22nd April 2009, 15:11   #17
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I was suggesting the 407 4WD components

Force Excel 4WD
Front Diff Offset Right

Tata 4074WD
Front Diff offset Left

Matador 307 is Front Wheel Drive
Now that explains a lot of things, lol . Sorry, my bad.

The Tempo travellor i think has the same kind of axles as the Gurkha, what say?
If thats true,(even though i doubt it since for something thing size, the axle needs to be rated to atleast 3.5 tons, but then its Force motors, you can really expect them to do something as stupid like that. Or maybe true Tata407 style, they chose to beef up the housings to make them heavier duty and leave the axles and the carrier- Crown/pinion as it is, i.e. light duty), we could have a front axle with strong knuckles, and probably a CV ball joint, or maybe a double cardon cross, but certainly not a sigle cross shaft. Also all it would need is the carrier housing, the sleeve set and the engagement levers(hydrallic or cable) from the trax to make a diff-locked axle.
Now that finally can be some very good news.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 15:49   #18
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Default Can we modify Traveller to 4WD?

Modifying a Traveller to 4WD is interesting, if indeed it can be done.

What I wanted was a rock-steady reliable vehicle which won't ever let me down in the middle of the back of beyond. Something like a Toyota - ultra-reliable. The objective was to do a mixture of long-distance driving, with a certain percentage of off-roading at the end. Sort of like what happens on a real driving holiday; get to the spot over dicey highways, and then make do with duff tracks to get to the place itself. What in Britain they call green-laning. In India, practically every road off the Golden Quad is a green lane, I imagine.

Last year, while I was looking at options, the best I could come out with (excluding the Stallion, the 407 4WD, and so on) was a 206 in 4WD from the factory, buy it bare then modify it to a pick-up van design with some basic comforts; no chemical toilet and stuff, doesn't look like there'll be space, but enough to give people the comfort of covered, secure snoozing space at night in rough country, where no decent accommodation is available.

There was nothing else which suggested itself; an Adventure is fine for most places, but the thought of FIAT support gave me cold feet, Palio fan though I am. OK for me, not for the old lady.

Unfortunately, buying a 206 new takes it well into the price range of a Xenon, for instance, or even a Gurkha. There is a certain amount of upward appeal; I know that's the last thing to be looking for, but one is forced to think this through. Has anybody heard anything about this possibility?

The others that I rejected due to not having anybody who can hold my hand through the kitting-up process was buying a Nissan weapons carrier Arka style and converting it into a camper; but who'd do this and how much might it be? And how would it be to drive it in practical terms? Two years ago, taking an Ambassador's wheel for about a 100 kms in Jharkhand convinced me that driving without power-steering is strictly for people below 45. Also the conversation about the fuel consumption on the original engine was hair-raising. I don't own an oil-well.

Finally, a Stallion or Tata 4WD military surplus truck (4x4 or even 6x6) might be an option, but the same concerns as earlier apply: steering and fuel consumption.

I don't see the Traveller getting modded to 4WD, from the trend of this post. A Mahindra forward control cab with 4WD sounds interesting, but again, I wish someone somewhere would say, "Actually, I've done it and it works a treat!" As if.

Guess I'll keep watching this in the hope that someone comes up with real useful solutions, real soon.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 16:22   #19
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As i said in the beginning of the past, theres a friend of mine, who's also a member on this forum though i cannot remember his handle at the moment, who is doing just that. But our vehicle of choice is the Swaraj mazda short wheelbase, since being a forward control model, it offers the best space vs overall dimensions. Plus, the super tough frame also means it can carry a heavy load and an offroad camping trailer too.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 16:46   #20
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Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Never knew Tempo excel comes with 4wd!! Looks ugly for sure when compared to a TATA 407 4wd or even Mahindra Fj 460 4wd van. So much of front overhang
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
It looks like they plonked the body of an Excel on a 4WD frame off a Toofan or something.
Looking at the front overhang, I agree with Spitfire that they most likely just plonked an excel body on a 4WD toofan frame !!

No G-wagen this fugly one..

I think people are much better of buying the Tata 4WD from mayapuri/army auctions and modifying it. Put in the new Turbo 407 engine and you have a powerful/capable camper.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 17:55   #21
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Default 4WD Tempo Traveller

The Tempo Traveller that is sold here is a previous generation Mercedes product called the Bremen Transporter. There were a couple of companies in Germany that offered 4WD conversions for these. IIRC, Madan80 has a photo of one such van with a conversion.
Take a look at this.
Mercedes Benz Four Wheel Drive Vans
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Old 22nd April 2009, 19:51   #22
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Originally Posted by Sivam View Post
The Tempo Traveller that is sold here is a previous generation Mercedes product called the Bremen Transporter. There were a couple of companies in Germany that offered 4WD conversions for these. IIRC, Madan80 has a photo of one such van with a conversion.
Take a look at this.
Mercedes Benz Four Wheel Drive Vans
But the problem we have here is that we don't really have the resources, like axles, suspension etc. In a solid front axle vehicle, the front rails are placed higher, but in the travellor, they are placed very low due to the fact that the travellor has an independent front suspension. Therefore there would not be a lot of room for the axle to move up and down, let alone articulation. The only way to modd it for a solid axle is to use SOA, and then you'll have to do that to the rear axle also.

Depending on what the stock pinion angle of whatever axle you use is, it can be quite a complicated task.

The pinion output of an axle is parallel to the xfercase output, that is in case you're using a single cardon cross shaft. For using the double cardon cross shaft, which though is not only availalbe in India for the same power/load rating in India, nor the need, the pinion angle is supposed to be the same as the drive shaft angle(though generally the pinion angle is 2 degrees more then the drive-shaft axle as the suspension will sit down when the vehicle is loaded and then the anlge between the driveshaft and the pinion would be zero). If the angle is not what its supposed to be when using either axle, you would have loads of problem, not to mention the power losses, smooth drive, and a bad cross and axle life.

Now SOA is not that easy a task, it need very carefully done measurements, and a very good mechanic to get the job done, and the low steer Tie-rods further adds to the problems, especially in a wide track vehicle when there is more danger of something hitting the tie rods. And matching the angle as i said above is a very complicated task. If you move the pinion angle, then the kingpin angle too has to be changed back to its normal position, which i doubt any person in India has the capability to do, as it involves cutting the axle tube and joining it back, with both sides having the exact same angle.

Also, the travellor has very low wheel wells, therefore its very important to select an axle that has a track equal to the stock track because if the track increase or becomes wider, you would either have to cut the fenders, or if that does not solve the problem, you would have to lift the vehicle more, which would add stability problems to a already high centered vehicle.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 23:01   #23
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Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
..... but in the travellor, they are placed very low due to the fact that the travellor has an independent front suspension....
brutus paaji,
i think you meant sold dead axle. Traveller has solid dead axle upfront not independent suspension. In such a case all one has to do is to find a 4wd gearbox of trax, add front propeller shaft and place an axle that is available on tempo excel 4wd on the traveller. The rear end may be raised to equate the height difference between the front and rear by placing a spacer on top of the rear axle at both ends. There you have a high lift tempo traveller 4wd!!

(i know it is easier said than done as parts availability is an issue as 4wd vehicles are really rare. doing it up with new parts is useless as the costs will be too high and reliability is a question mark as one has to calculate all the papameters what brutus mentioned.)

to come back to the topic of the thread, if the 4wd caravan is the requirement then i think of all the available options TATA 713 4wd is the best . Some one told me on the forum that it is wonderful to drive too.

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 22nd April 2009 at 23:02.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 23:44   #24
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to add to the list, how about the winger? since it uses sumo bits here and there, would it be a good reciever for a 4WD transplant using the corresponding tata bits
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Old 22nd April 2009, 23:58   #25
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Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
to come back to the topic of the thread, if the 4wd caravan is the requirement then i think of all the available options TATA 713 4wd is the best . Some one told me on the forum that it is wonderful to drive too.
Its not sold to civillian, as they are taken to VFJ in CKD form and assembled there. Correct me if i am wrong.
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Old 23rd April 2009, 03:31   #26
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Acha, i never knew. If it's got a solid dead axle then it would be a breaze to get the 4x4 working. Just add a Tata xfercase( from an auctioned unit, you'll get it a dime a dozen) and a solid front and you're done. I always thought the travellor had an independent front. Sorry guys, I ain't much into the bigger stuff.
I once saw a shaktimann pic, or should i say the original man truck used for the that sahara rally( dakar or whatever its called), and it was amazing. You've got portal axles, and you've got a multi fuel motor. What else do you need?
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Old 23rd April 2009, 11:17   #27
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Default traveller 4wd

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Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
Acha, i never knew. If it's got a solid dead axle then it would be a breaze to get the 4x4 working. ....
....Just add a Tata xfercase( from an auctioned unit, you'll get it a dime a dozen) and a solid front and you're done.
Brutus,
If force has to make a 4wd van, it is pretty simple for them since they have all the mechanicals with them already. No, auctioned TATA 4wd unit will not suit as the transfer case is left off set and the axles available for force 4wd is right offset. If tata unit has to be sourced then you need tata 407 wd front axle.

here are the pics of dead axle front of tempo excel for illustration and merc van 4wd which is nothing but traveller here in india. Look closely, isnt the front axle too similar to what force has used on its excel 4wd?
Attached Images
  

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 23rd April 2009 at 11:28.
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Old 23rd April 2009, 11:20   #28
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Its not sold to civillian, as they are taken to VFJ in CKD form and assembled there. Correct me if i am wrong.
siralec,
you are right, i havent seen it selling for civillians. you have to buy it from an auction. But TATA sells 1613 4wd long wheel base version with 6 tyres for civillians. but that will be too big for caravan useage. The following pic is that of old TATA 1210 SE 4wd.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 23rd April 2009 at 11:26.
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Old 23rd April 2009, 11:22   #29
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
to add to the list, how about the winger? since it uses sumo bits here and there, would it be a good reciever for a 4WD transplant using the corresponding tata bits
4wd on winger?? Oh noooo too long for 4wd applications, will sit on its belly all the time. Only good for slippery road conditions in snowy regions rather than off road conditions. may be it will look like this:-)))
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Old 23rd April 2009, 13:40   #30
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I was talking about those auction Tata xfercases. I know they're huge and heavy, but this ain't no featherweight vehicle either, so i guess it can be done. Besides, i think when making something like this, you always do have to make a few compromises for the sake of reliability. Now see, using a Tata truck xfercase means, no matter where you are, probably even way beyond in Leh, but any Army-walla can help you out in trouble,right?

We were thinking on these lines earlier, when listing out the parts for the caravan, and using the bigger Tata 4x4 Salisbury type axles too, since it would'nt take much work to fit the rear axles diff-lock up front too, and the 44x12.5" tires meant nice capabilities on both sand and mud.

Trailers help too. Check this out

I was thinking of making something like this to tow behind when i go for week long trips. I don't think this would take much work either, just that i'll have to make everything out of chequered plates for toughness, what say?

Just to make everyone feel a bit lighter, heres another video

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