Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Commercial Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th June 2012, 20:02   #106
Zed
BHPian
 
Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 467
Thanked: 270 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Sergio Marchionne has also hinted at a possible interest in Navistar as part of Fiat Industrial's North American ambitions.

VW is also going all out to strengthen its CV portfolio across the globe. While MAN & Scania are strong brands for VW they are not in the same league as Diamler or Volvo in terms of global presence. Hence an American brand for the NA market is a sensible prospect considering the fundamental difference in contemporary truck designs between EU and the USA.

There is scope for synergy in powertrains - as demonstrated by PACCAR when it introducing the European (DAF) MX engines at Kenworth and Peterbilt.
And from a synergy perspective FPT (Fiat powertrain) scores over VW as a potential partner for Navistar, IMHO, as its CV engines strike a good balance between technology and cost compared to MAN\Scania that are both technology leaders with a potential cost disadvantage. As stated in the press report, engine warranty costs has been a major issue at Navistar.
Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2012, 22:39   #107
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 1,081
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Volkswagen eyes U.S. truckmaker Navistar stake!
Quote:
Navistar reported a second-quarter loss on Thursday, hit by a hefty charge for warranty costs related to engines built in 2010 and 2011, sending its shares down as much as 28 percent to their lowest since late 2008.
Is it a sign of issues with the MAXX Force Engine? Is it the same engine Mahindra uses in its Indian range? If it has issues with in US itself, how is going to perform in indian conditions, (Over load, bad roads etc).
Like Ashley mentioned, as in all earlier MM JsV (Renault/Ford), eventually the india operations has to become a 100% M&M comapny with engine technology sourced from some one else (Cummins/Paccar etc), retaining the front fascia. Let us wait.
teamveevee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 09:42   #108
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 10,062
Thanked: 15,598 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

U.S. court scraps engine rule that aided Navistar!
Quote:
Navistar International Corp. will not be permitted to pay fines in order to sell heavy-duty diesel truck engines that fail to meet pollution standards, a federal appeals court ruled today

Quote:
The ruling could limit Navistar's ability to continue shipping trucks until the company complies with the EPA's 2010 standard, and could cause the company to lose market share.


volkman10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 16:42   #109
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 1,594
Thanked: 439 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Is it a sign of issues with the MAXX Force Engine? Is it the same engine Mahindra uses in its Indian range? If it has issues with in US itself, how is going to perform in indian conditions, (Over load, bad roads etc).
Indian emission standards trail behind standards prevailing in US and Europe so it's unlikely Mahindra will face any emission-related issues with Maxxforce engines. Practically speaking, the Indian emission standard for CVs is BS-III (not BS-IV since less than 10% CVs are sold in BS-IV territories). BS-III is equivalent to Euro-III which was introduced in Europe in year 2000 and phased out in 2005 when BS-IV was introduced. The current European standard is Euro-V.

Last edited by directinjection : 13th June 2012 at 16:43.
directinjection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 21:55   #110
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 1,081
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
so it's unlikely Mahindra will face any emission-related issues with Maxxforce engines..
News paper report mentions "Warranty" related issues, another report mentions "Penalty" due to non-compliance to emission standards. Not sure both are same issues or not. You are right, if it is related to emission, probably india should be fine, but what if the issue is with the design. Anyway, now there are quite a few Navistars on indian roads. If i am in the market for Navistar trucks, probably it will be better idea to wait for feedback from existing customers. Right now i do not see a specific advantage by adopting MN over TM or AL truck. Also i will be a bit more confident with upcoming Bharat Benz than MN at the moment.
teamveevee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th June 2012, 23:31   #111
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 1,081
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Are the Sharks Circling Navistar? - Yahoo! Finance
Quote:
The mistake was Navistar's veering from industry standard with a new engine technology that hasn't been able to get EPA certification and has led to costly warranty repairs. Last quarter, in part because of the warranty costs, Navistar reported an unexpected loss and for the second consecutive quarter guided well below expectations. .........

Navistar needs to produce a market ready, market acceptable and legally compliant engine, and it needs to do so quickly. This engine needs to work, and buyers need to buy it.
Looks like things are not so good at Navistar, will the divorce (Mahindra & Navistar) happens much earlier than expected?
teamveevee is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2012, 14:52   #112
Zed
BHPian
 
Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 467
Thanked: 270 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
News paper report mentions "Warranty" related issues, another report mentions "Penalty" due to non-compliance to emission standards. Not sure both are same issues or not. You are right, if it is related to emission, probably india should be fine, but what if the issue is with the design. Anyway, now there are quite a few Navistars on indian roads. If i am in the market for Navistar trucks, probably it will be better idea to wait for feedback from existing customers. Right now i do not see a specific advantage by adopting MN over TM or AL truck. Also i will be a bit more confident with upcoming Bharat Benz than MN at the moment.
Navistar decided to pursue an 'EGR only' solution as opposed to other North American CV rivals that opted for an SCR (or EGR + SCR) solution to combat NOx. Inspite of Navistar's best attempts their engines could not meet the emission targets and they were allowed by the EPA (Environmental protection agency) to sell engines by imposing a penalty ($$) for each non compliant engine sold. However competitors took the matter to court claiming that EPA's decision gave Navistar an undue advantage. The court ruled against EPA's decision and so its curtains for Navistar's current Heavy duty truck engines.
Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2012, 16:27   #113
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post

Looks like things are not so good at Navistar, will the divorce (Mahindra & Navistar) happens much earlier than expected?
Mahindra is known for early divorce. They have the capability and at times are over confident. They keep scratching the JV's they form and in many cases the seperation is not fruitful and as literally corner the partner.
Having seen this in past, now in MN JV, Mahindra is already in a upper hand(financially) and can easily buy out the JV, if they want.
But I also have an opinion that, this need not happen so quickly as the JV is almost controlled by Mahindra only. They get what they want and no objection from partner - that's the reason a cowl version and a lower power 170hp was launched immediately when the initial models did'nt take off so good.
Ashley2 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2012, 11:11   #114
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default Rivals eye Mahindra's American truck partner

Quote:
As European auto heavyweights Volkswagen AG and Fiat Industrial SpA are reportedly planning to buy into the loss-making US truck maker Navistar International, its Indian partner, Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M), remains on the edge. Volkswagen, which has two heavy-duty truck brands, Scania and MAN, is eyeing an equity stake in Navistar to gain a stronger foothold in the US commercial vehicle market, according to international media reports.....

.....A sell-out by the promoters of Navistar at this stage will hamper M&M’s plans for the heavy commercial vehicle market. Several new products and the expansion of the Chakan truck-making unit near Pune are lined up, with added investment
The game is on..

Source:Rivals eye Mahindra's American truck partner
Ashley2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2012, 07:51   #115
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 10,062
Thanked: 15,598 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Navistar adopts the Poison Pill plan!
Quote:
The Plan is designed to deter coercive takeover tactics including the accumulation of shares in the open market or through private transactions and to prevent an acquiror from gaining control of the Company without offering a fair and adequate price to all of the Company’s stockholders.
Navistar Adopts Poison Pill Plan | Construction Equipment
volkman10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2012, 23:35   #116
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Navistar adopts the Poison Pill plan!


Navistar Adopts Poison Pill Plan | Construction Equipment
What will actually happen of Navistar goes this way?
Ashley2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2012, 22:27   #117
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 1,081
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Is Friday Navistar's Most Important Day Ever? - Yahoo! Finance
Quote:
it is likely to move away from the controversial Exhaust Gas Recirculation, or "EGR" technology that Navistar has bet its fortunes on. The rest of the industry uses more conventional Selective Catalytic Reduction, or SCR, technology.............
A big asset sale to raise the cash that will be needed to transition to a new engine, which some have speculated would result in resorting to engines built by rival Cummins.
Any one know, whether the engines used in Mahindra-Navistar trucks in India uses EGR technology (asked since the emission norms as not as strict as its parent's country). If yes, it will be bad news for Early adopters in India.
Also if Mahindra-Navistar decides to use Cummins engine in India, can we call Cummins, the National Truck Engine?..

Last edited by teamveevee : 5th July 2012 at 22:29.
teamveevee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2012, 09:57   #118
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Is Friday Navistar's Most Important Day Ever? - Yahoo! Finance
Any one know, whether the engines used in Mahindra-Navistar trucks in India uses EGR technology (asked since the emission norms as not as strict as its parent's country). If yes, it will be bad news for Early adopters in India.
Also if Mahindra-Navistar decides to use Cummins engine in India, can we call Cummins, the National Truck Engine?..
EGR and SCR is required only for the emission norms upwards of Euro IV and above.So MN trucks in India does not use either EGR or SCR as they are only BS III.
Possible entry of Cummins will definitely make it call as National Truck engine in India. But that need not happen in India as by the time they develop a BS IV truck for India, they will come with a SCR directly.

But if they opt to use Cummins, then the only difference they have for the proclaimed banner "Ok is no longer Ok" will then become "Ok is always Ok"
Ashley2 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2012, 10:32   #119
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 1,081
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,2049598.story
Quote:
Under the agreement, Navistar will sell Cummins engines in its International ProStar +, PayStar and 9900 models. It will also use Cummins' technology to reduce smog-causing nitrogen oxide in heavy-duty big bore engines.

Navistar said it will begin its pilot production of trucks with the Cummins engine next month. By March, it plans to begin modifying its engines, using Cummins' technology.
What engine the Mahindra-Navistar uses? It will be a good idea to use Cummins engine in India also. AMW is already using Cummins engine.
teamveevee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2012, 14:06   #120
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default Re: Mahindra Navistar World Class Trucks launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,2049598.story
What engine the Mahindra-Navistar uses? It will be a good idea to use Cummins engine in India also. AMW is already using Cummins engine.
Currently they use Navistar sourced Maxxforce engines. But understand they are likely to offer our "National truck engine" - Cummins.
But its good or not we cant comment on it, as MN is hugely promoting Maxxforce engines which will be of no use when they start offering Cummins, as there will be no product differentiation.
Ashley2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahindra Navistar MN25 truck rolls out at Rs. 14.99 lakhs GTO Commercial Vehicles 10 6th July 2010 21:41
Mahindra Navistar MN25 Finject Commercial Vehicles 1 30th June 2010 09:35
Some cool facts about Trucks from the Mahindra Navistar 2010 Calendar serpente Commercial Vehicles 10 26th March 2010 16:35
Mahindra unveils (navistar-sourced) 7.2L 6 cylinder diesel engine! 880 NM of torque GTO Commercial Vehicles 45 12th January 2010 11:46


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 22:54.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks