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Old 21st December 2010, 14:17   #346
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I agree the major growth in the CV industry is to be had in the segment presently catered to by the U-truck, AMW, Force MAN and Mahindra Navistar. Tata needs to seriously think about bringing out a product in this market. The Prima is just a bit too costly and premium to sell in large nos in the near future. Though from the point of view of a long term strategy and if Tata plans to enter the European CV market, the Prima is a great product.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 08:59   #347
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Name:  sidesmall.jpg
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Look at the state of the A/c cabin. See the used cloths hanging there...
Yes, i agree with Julupani, Prima range is not going to sell in huge nos in India. I heard from reliable sources, that there are lot of enquiries for the range across India, from small/medium/large truck operators, but most of them wants a non AC version, for which TM has not obliged yet. Not sure what the exact reason, may be thinking about the reduction in Fuel efficiency, May be no body want to provide such comfort to truck drivers, may be the fear that the drivers may mis-use it [How many A/C buses have a/c driver cabin]. So if TM wants to sell the Prima in large numbers, all they need to do is to come up with a stripped down version. But so far no such plan from TM. Bottomline, TM is not looking at large nos for Prima range in India.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 09:25   #348
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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Attachment 472220Photo credit Ashley2
Look at the state of the A/c cabin. See the used cloths hanging there...
Yes, i agree with Julupani, Prima range is not going to sell in huge nos in India. I heard from reliable sources, that there are lot of enquiries for the range across India, from small/medium/large truck operators, but most of them wants a non AC version, for which TM has not obliged yet. Not sure what the exact reason, may be thinking about the reduction in Fuel efficiency, May be no body want to provide such comfort to truck drivers, may be the fear that the drivers may mis-use it [How many A/C buses have a/c driver cabin]. So if TM wants to sell the Prima in large numbers, all they need to do is to come up with a stripped down version. But so far no such plan from TM. Bottomline, TM is not looking at large nos for Prima range in India.
From reports that have read, TML plans to sell about 50000 in the Prima range anually a few years down the line, after more models are introduced and production stabilises. In comparison TML sells around 14000 of its normal H&MCVs a month.

Other than the fact that you cant have a non-airconditioned version, there are many other things, like no nylon cross ply tyres, no omitting electronic adjust seats, no buying of chassis only for tippers and trucks, requirement of ABS equipped trailors etc which make the Prima a pretty costly truck to buy.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 10:20   #349
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Look at the state of the A/c cabin. See the used cloths hanging there...
You can change the truck but not the Truck driver :-)
You can also find clothes hanging in AL's U as well (cropped Ashley's pic for better clarity)
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Last edited by DWind : 22nd December 2010 at 10:28. Reason: cropped Ashley's pic
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Old 22nd December 2010, 12:59   #350
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From reports that have read, TML plans to sell about 50000 in the Prima range anually a few years down the line, after more models are introduced and production stabilises. In comparison TML sells around 14000 of its normal H&MCVs a month.

Other than the fact that you cant have a non-airconditioned version, there are many other things, like no nylon cross ply tyres, no omitting electronic adjust seats, no buying of chassis only for tippers and trucks, requirement of ABS equipped trailors etc which make the Prima a pretty costly truck to buy.
I certainly feel that there should not be any stripped down version of Prima. It should stand distinct from the crowd. No options to be ommitted and takers should consider this only when its required.
But one thing I understand, the fright forwarding company cannot get a higher cost for transporting goods in Prima
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Old 22nd December 2010, 14:14   #351
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The idea with the Prima is to transport more goods in the same amount of time. This can be done only when you can run the truck for 800kms a day. Also you can charge a bit more when you provide things like gps trackability, faster and more reliable delivery times.

Last edited by julupani : 22nd December 2010 at 14:16.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 14:22   #352
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What Tata or other players really need to do is take a leaf out of Volvo India's bus sales strategy. Volvo India successfully sells buses costing 2-3 times more than the competition and hasnt had a need to strip the bus down to bring cost to competitor levels.

I agree that the bus and truck segments are quite different in nature, but surely there must be some lessons that Tata etc can learn from Volvo? like TCO etc?

Last edited by prashanthyr : 22nd December 2010 at 14:22. Reason: missing words
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Old 22nd December 2010, 14:40   #353
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Originally Posted by prashanthyr View Post
What Tata or other players really need to do is take a leaf out of Volvo India's bus sales strategy. Volvo India successfully sells buses costing 2-3 times more than the competition and hasnt had a need to strip the bus down to bring cost to competitor levels.

I agree that the bus and truck segments are quite different in nature, but surely there must be some lessons that Tata etc can learn from Volvo? like TCO etc?
People travel in bus and they can speak of the comfort they get by seating in volvo, ushering a volvo revolution.

In trucks, goods cannot speak and an increase in costs would lead to increase in commodities prices.

I think a non ac version will also be frugual on diet.
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Old 23rd December 2010, 10:10   #354
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People travel in bus and they can speak of the comfort they get by seating in volvo, ushering a volvo revolution.

In trucks, goods cannot speak and an increase in costs would lead to increase in commodities prices.

I think a non ac version will also be frugual on diet.
I agree on the 'word of mouth' publicity plus the fact that passengers are willing to pay a premium to travel on Volvo. However, this alone has not enticed operators to invest 2-3x more in a Volvo. Volvo India has been successful in projecting other benefits like longer maintenance intervals, longer life etc which result in lesser Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), which I believe is a key consideration for the truck segment as well. I was referring to that.
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Old 23rd December 2010, 11:13   #355
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Originally Posted by prashanthyr View Post
Volvo India has been successful in projecting other benefits like longer maintenance intervals, longer life etc which result in lesser Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), which I believe is a key consideration for the truck segment as well. I was referring to that.
I agree on your comments but at the same time only big ticket operators will buy into that idea, most of the operators still go on kerosine mixed on diesel which in any way will have impact on cost of ownership with more sophisticated technology put into new trucks.
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Old 23rd December 2010, 16:30   #356
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If drivers hand out clothes inside an a/c cabin, it because nobody pays them for the Rs. 50/- per night room at a wayside hotel. Very little that a driver can change here. And do not expect the Indian driver to use one wash a month denim jeans. His relatives and colleagues and their breathing systems a'int ready for it yet.

That said, I am with Tata on "no scaled down prima" policy. Indian buyers will prefer the M800 over better Alto, and the Alto over the A-Star, because the lower priced options are available.

There used to be a time when operators choose non-power steering chassis because it was available and costed a couple of quid less. Once the PS became compulsory, the stingy ones could not find drivers to drive their non-PS vehicles, and modified them by retrofitting PS.

BTW, somebody mentioned 800 KM per day. Is that really possible? 500KM travel means at least 2 interstate borders - each with at least 2 check posts - MV department, and sales tax. Each checkpost means at least one hour delay. Add to this the waysaid "chai-paani" wala ustads.
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Old 23rd December 2010, 18:52   #357
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If drivers hand out clothes inside an a/c cabin, it because nobody pays them for the Rs. 50/- per night room at a wayside hotel. Very little that a driver can change here. And do not expect the Indian driver to use one wash a month denim jeans. His relatives and colleagues and their breathing systems a'int ready for it yet.

That said, I am with Tata on "no scaled down prima" policy. Indian buyers will prefer the M800 over better Alto, and the Alto over the A-Star, because the lower priced options are available.

There used to be a time when operators choose non-power steering chassis because it was available and costed a couple of quid less. Once the PS became compulsory, the stingy ones could not find drivers to drive their non-PS vehicles, and modified them by retrofitting PS.

BTW, somebody mentioned 800 KM per day. Is that really possible? 500KM travel means at least 2 interstate borders - each with at least 2 check posts - MV department, and sales tax. Each checkpost means at least one hour delay. Add to this the waysaid "chai-paani" wala ustads.
TML won't be looking at a strip down version of its Premium "Prima Range". Instead its plans to launch a slew of products with increased fuel efficiency and safety features to replace its ageing 407 - 1109 range of trucks...
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Old 23rd December 2010, 19:25   #358
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Well 800kms a day is defintely possible. This is from actual reports of logistics operators using trucks like the Prima and Volvos. Delhi to Mumbai in 2 days, Kolkata to Chennai 3 days and such travel times are definitely possible, not just theoretically but practically.
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Old 23rd December 2010, 22:29   #359
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Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
In trucks, goods cannot speak and an increase in costs would lead to increase in commodities prices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
The idea with the Prima is to transport more goods in the same amount of time. This can be done only when you can run the truck for 800kms a day. Also you can charge a bit more when you provide things like gps trackability, faster and more reliable delivery times.
No customer pays extra for transporting their goods in a Ac cabbed truck.
Also I believe you will agree that GPS tracking can be done in any vehicles no matter its Prima or a conventional chassis.
Running 800 KMs a day is virtually not possible and your drivers will never co operate for such a huge distance. Though its told by TML marketing team, that it can run more than 700 kms - I really do not agree for this. Can this be accepted that, as just by providing a AC cabin is possible? also a 280 HP vehicle with a 49T load and a 230 HP vehicle with same load cant just travel much higher in a days travel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prashanthyr View Post
I agree on the 'word of mouth' publicity plus the fact that passengers are willing to pay a premium to travel on Volvo. However, this alone has not enticed operators to invest 2-3x more in a Volvo. Volvo India has been successful in projecting other benefits like longer maintenance intervals, longer life etc which result in lesser Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), which I believe is a key consideration for the truck segment as well. I was referring to that.
What does it mean by longer life - more than 10 years of service. Definetely a bus with more than 5 years itself will loose its charm - no matter its volvo or MB. And there is nothing like TCO is less than ALL or TML and Volvo can never ever claim that. They fetch more money and they spend more money.
Because of Volvo and unfortunately people accepting the higher ticket price operators are enjoying a premium ticket cost. Take Isuzu its atleast 10 lks less than Volvo - bus the ticket cost is equal to Volvo. This is because the passengers are used for a bus with rear engine and no matter its from brand A or B you pay a cost higher than what it deserves. The reason as the initial entrant Volvo was a higher priced product.

I still believe a day will come when Volvo will really re look its strategy for pricing its products higher.
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Old 23rd December 2010, 22:56   #360
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Ashley - will the traveller pay the premium for rear engine buses from AL / TML?

AFAIK, AL does have rear engine buses with normal GC. They used to run in Chennai city service.
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