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Old 1st March 2011, 09:33   #466
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Default Re: The Heavy Trucks thread

Few more to add!

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Fully-Suspended Cabs: Suspension at both ends.
To be precise independent suspensions at all four points.
This really makes quite a lot of difference while driving and driver experience will be quite good.

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Tiltable: I think this is self explanatory. Almost all fully forward designs offer a tiltable cab to allow for easy access to the engine and transmisson.
SF cabs do offer tiltalble.
Some models in Hino, I have heard, though not sure.

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Day/Night Cab: Basically as you said, one with sleeping berth and one without. Some cabs have only one sleeping berth while others have two.
Here the interesting part is U-Truck day cabs (Tipper) model offers berth provision. But still its called a day only.
Sleeper models offer 2 berths
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Old 1st March 2011, 12:40   #467
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Default Re: The Heavy Trucks thread

Some companies call a single berth cab a day cab, and double berth one as a sleeper cab. Some times its day, semi-sleeper and full sleeper.

In India, almost all day cabs come with one berth. It is just not acceptable not to have a rear berth, as more than 2 people are in the cabin often.

The complete set of comfortable seating arrangement for the crew is only completed, when you add suspended seats to a fully suspended cabin. This is only available as of now with the Tata Primas, Volvo and Merc trucks in India.

But it drives up cost by a huge amount. A pair of fully electronically adjustable suspended seats comes in at close to 1lakh!!

Last edited by julupani : 1st March 2011 at 12:41.
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Old 1st March 2011, 13:43   #468
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Default Re: The Heavy Trucks thread

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The complete set of comfortable seating arrangement for the crew is only completed, when you add suspended seats to a fully suspended cabin. This is only available as of now with the Tata Primas, Volvo and Merc trucks in India.

But it drives up cost by a huge amount. A pair of fully electronically adjustable suspended seats comes in at close to 1lakh!!
Could you please elaborate on "suspended seats to a fully suspended cabin". The tech behind it and the features, I mean.
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Old 1st March 2011, 13:52   #469
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All these features basically mean that a driver can use the truck more easily, be more comfortable while doing so. This means he can operate the truck for longer periods of time and more safely.

This is what trucks like the Prima are there for. The idea is even though the truck is a lot more costly, it can do a lot more work. In Europe truck drivers drive for 12-14hours a day covering 500+miles per day, ie 800kms. Our normal trucks cover barely half of that on a good day, while driving in dangerous conditions, having to battle through a lot of physical exhaustion.
Quite a few people do not agree to the above, saying TATA is overstating the value offered by Prima in terms of faster TOT.

Here is a link that corroborates the above. Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Very interesting read.

Forbes India - More Truck For The Road
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Old 1st March 2011, 14:36   #470
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Suspended seats are not rigidly fixed on to the body, rather are mounted on springs or air bags, providing for extra comfort.

Read the Forbes article long time ago, but I dont get what you are referring to in the article. The article talks about Siddhi Vinayak Transport, who are as of now the single largest operators of Tata Primas, using their Primas to cover 700kms a day. And this is exactly what I mentioned.

Of course, you need to keep the vehicle loaded as far as possible. It is always true, for all kinds of trucks. But more so with trucks like the Prima with much higher initial costs. Which is why these trucks are not meant for the smaller operators, but only for the very large operators. Most of the Primas sold today are in bulk orders, very rarely in a number less than 5. Large operators can bid for logistics contracts for large companies, allowing the trucks to be more regularly and reliably loaded, lowering the risk of having a truck standing around.

Also, roads that you normally operate on, must allow for you to be able to cover 700kms in a day. Which is why you see some operators not able to operate at maximum efficiency. A large number of feeder highways are slowly being improved. If you largely operate on single lane highways, its not possible to hit 700 kms in a day. Similarly, some interstate borders have a lot of traffic causing you to get stuck for very long.

It may not be 700kms but it will still be an improvement over standard trucks. And once infrastructure improves, you will be able to achieve much higher mileage per day.
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Old 1st March 2011, 14:51   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Suspended seats are not rigidly fixed on to the body, rather are mounted on springs or air bags, providing for extra comfort.

Read the Forbes article long time ago, but I dont get what you are referring to in the article. The article talks about Siddhi Vinayak Transport, who are as of now the single largest operators of Tata Primas, using their Primas to cover 700kms a day. And this is exactly what I mentioned.

Of course, you need to keep the vehicle loaded as far as possible. It is always true, for all kinds of trucks. But more so with trucks like the Prima with much higher initial costs. Which is why these trucks are not meant for the smaller operators, but only for the very large operators. Most of the Primas sold today are in bulk orders, very rarely in a number less than 5. Large operators can bid for logistics contracts for large companies, allowing the trucks to be more regularly and reliably loaded, lowering the risk of having a truck standing around.

Also, roads that you normally operate on, must allow for you to be able to cover 700kms in a day. Which is why you see some operators not able to operate at maximum efficiency. A large number of feeder highways are slowly being improved. If you largely operate on single lane highways, its not possible to hit 700 kms in a day. Similarly, some interstate borders have a lot of traffic causing you to get stuck for very long.

It may not be 700kms but it will still be an improvement over standard trucks. And once infrastructure improves, you will be able to achieve much higher mileage per day.
I was agreeing to the part of your message that I quoted. Based on SiddiVinayak's trial run from Jamshedpur to Pune which cut down travel time hugely.

So all other things being equal, such as crowded stretches and single lane sections, the new generation of trucks with more power and better comfort should prove their worth if leveraged efficiently.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 10:10   #472
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Can somebody tell me the difference between 'ETI' and 'DTI' in H Series engines by Ashok Leyland. These H Series - ETI, H Series ETI 3K and H6DTI come in similar power outputs and emission compliance, but DTI seems to be slightly more expensive than the ETI and also DTI seems to be more sought after by the market in HCV offerings from ALL compared to ETI.Can any of the experts pls clarify
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Old 3rd March 2011, 12:55   #473
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Quote:
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Also, roads that you normally operate on, must allow for you to be able to cover 700kms in a day. ...
This is a clever move by TML. Though it happens naturally its been projected by TML to a greater extent. I am always with Prima and nothing like aganist that but still they cannot take it granted and tell only because of Prima they are able to cover 700 KMS a day, though still its yet to be evidenced!
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Old 3rd March 2011, 13:13   #474
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Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
Can somebody tell me the difference between 'ETI' and 'DTI' in H Series engines by Ashok Leyland.
AFAIK, Historically ETI and DTI were with reference to the stroke lengths of the engine
ETI - 118mm stroke (This was a NA engine)
DTI - 113mm.

But post Euro-3 the difference in stroke lengths is obsolete and its only 113mm in all engines.
Though the difference in stroke has now vanished, the 'ETI" name i believe is retained for 'marketing reasons'!

The cost difference you are talking about may be because the DTI engine you are quoting is with an electronic fuel injection system and the ETI is with a mechanical system.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 16:37   #475
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Default Re: The Heavy Trucks thread

TML marketing department is probably the most aggressive marketing department among all the CV manufacturers of India. Sometimes I think TML CV marketing is better thans its passenger car marketing.

Also, Ashley, what do you mean by, "though it happens naturally".

I dont think normal trucks end up covering 700+kms on four lane highways, if that is what you mean.

As far as Primas actually doing that, Siddhi Vinayak now regularly does it. Initial reports from Linfox are also very good, considering they are looking to order a lot more and shift fully to Tata Primas internationally over the next few years.

Though as of now, I have heard, as most of the other trucks are still pretty slow, trying to maintain 60+ kph on the highway for the Primas is proving not that easy, with drivers having to drive their 16/20 wheeler tractor-trailors on the right lane most of the time.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 17:36   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auto freak View Post
AFAIK, Historically ETI and DTI were with reference to the stroke lengths of the engine
ETI - 118mm stroke (This was a NA engine)
DTI - 113mm.

But post Euro-3 the difference in stroke lengths is obsolete and its only 113mm in all engines.
Though the difference in stroke has now vanished, the 'ETI" name i believe is retained for 'marketing reasons'!
Any idea how the difference in stroke size affected the engine CC? What were the two engine sizes?
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Old 4th March 2011, 07:22   #477
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For a bore of 100mm, the increase would have been 235.5cc, ie about 0.2L.

What is the bore of the ALL H-series engine?

But I really dont understand the point of a 5mm increase in stroke. Such a change would help the torque improve a little, but I would imagine changing other parameters could achieve a similar increase without changing the dimensions.
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Old 4th March 2011, 21:54   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
Can somebody tell me the difference between 'ETI' and 'DTI' in H Series engines by Ashok Leyland. These H Series - ETI, H Series ETI 3K and H6DTI come in similar power outputs and emission compliance, but DTI seems to be slightly more expensive than the ETI and also DTI seems to be more sought after by the market in HCV offerings from ALL compared to ETI.Can any of the experts pls clarify
AFAIK:
ETI & DTI are both derivatives of the Hino engines. The first Hino engine launched by AL way back was "W" series. They changed to "E" in 2000 when the new enission norms came it effect (CMVR2000). Later in 2005 with BS2 the "D" series was introduced. Both E & D has been reengineered by AL team. There is some difference in the cylinder block of these two types.
ETI - "E series turbo Intercooler" (avaliable in 114Hp, 160Hp BS2)
ETI3K is the BS3 model with mechanical FIP.
DTI - "D series turbo intercooler" (avaliable in 132Hp, 160Hp, 180Hp & 210Hp BS2)
Today ETI mostly employes mechanical FIP while DTI employes Rotary FIP.
ETI is not offered across all models.
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Old 5th March 2011, 20:57   #479
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Default Re: The Heavy Trucks thread

So what is CTI? I saw a Comet 1612 tipper with H4CTI written on the front.
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Old 7th March 2011, 10:06   #480
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So what is CTI? I saw a Comet 1612 tipper with H4CTI written on the front.
This should be for 4 cylinder engines as the earlier ones are for 6 cylinder series
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