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Old 12th November 2010, 17:41   #271
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My question was purely limited to fully built vehicles. Why dont we see more FBVs from ALL, while TML produces FBVs in almost all ranges, be it trucks, buses or LCVs, considering that FBVs generally generate more revenue and margin for the manufacturer.

Even when I go to the south I rarely see ALL FBVs, though I agree as to ALL dominates the south, just like TML does elsewhere.

And here I am not considering how big the size of the FBV market is in India, but slowly but surely, things are set to move towards FBVs. As of now only the tipper market is dominated by FBVs, where almost 90% of Tata's tipper sales are FBVs, with only a few Semi-forward tippers going out as chassis only.

As for the Tata Starbus, Tata operates a completely separate factory at Lucknow, having a production capacity of almost 500 perday and is now opening another in Dharwad, just for buses, I would definitely call the Tata Starbus range a success, whatever initial problems may have been there.

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Old 12th November 2010, 18:21   #272
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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Even when I go to the south I rarely see ALL FBVs, though I agree as to ALL dominates the south, just like TML does elsewhere.

And here I am not considering how big the size of the FBV market is in India, but slowly but surely, things are set to move towards FBVs. As of now only the tipper market is dominated by FBVs, where almost 90% of Tata's tipper sales are FBVs, with only a few Semi-forward tippers going out as chassis only.

As for the Tata Starbus, Tata operates a completely separate factory at Lucknow, having a production capacity of almost 500 perday and is now opening another in Dharwad, just for buses, I would definitely call the Tata Starbus range a success, whatever initial problems may have been there.

TML has the credit for popularising the FBV segemnt. Be it truck or bus (LCV or HCV) the domestic market started to notice these products after the media campaign by TML on their Starbus, Ex series of LCV etc.
Meanwhile i don't think any TML plant has a production capacity of 500 per day.
Untill recently, AL was concentrating its FBV products only in the export market & special vehicle segment. May be from 2005 onwards AL has gradually introduced FVB (buses) in domestic market, starting with LCV/ICV. For AL FBV trucks, the demand was mostly from govt. establishments like State POLICE, PSU, Railways, Defece, ISRO, BRO etc. The private trucking (also for buses) people preferred lots of customisation at local body builders, espically in South. Today AL has an impressive array of products in FBV segemnt be it bus, truck or special vehicles.

Here are some of the body builders who has been benifitted by the FBV business of TML & AL.
Buses (most of them supply to both AL & TML) - Ruby Buses, HMM Coaches, Swami Coaches, Azad Coaches, TVS-Irizar, Prakash, Veera, Mg-Alma Motors, ACGL, Sutlej, PT Coaches, KMS Coaches, Harsha Wheelmovers, Starline etc
Truck (Body) - Kailash Vahan Udyog, Hyva, Beebco, Indico, Utkal, Vectra, ACCL, PL-Haulwel, Antony Garage etc.
Tractor Trailers - ANG Auto, DLT Int., PL-Haulwel etc
Special Vehciles - BrijiBasi, Vijay etc.

Finally here is one of the new "A+ range school bus" BS3 STAG FBV bus from AL.
Attached Thumbnails
Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only-image150.jpg  

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Old 12th November 2010, 22:50   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
My question was purely limited to fully built vehicles. Why dont we see more FBVs from ALL, while TML produces FBVs in almost all ranges, be it trucks, buses or LCVs, considering that FBVs generally generate more revenue and margin for the manufacturer.

Even when I go to the south I rarely see ALL FBVs, though I agree as to ALL dominates the south, just like TML does elsewhere.

And here I am not considering how big the size of the FBV market is in India, but slowly but surely, things are set to move towards FBVs. As of now only the tipper market is dominated by FBVs, where almost 90% of Tata's tipper sales are FBVs, with only a few Semi-forward tippers going out as chassis only.

As for the Tata Starbus, Tata operates a completely separate factory at Lucknow, having a production capacity of almost 500 perday and is now opening another in Dharwad, just for buses, I would definitely call the Tata Starbus range a success, whatever initial problems may have been there.
In the south the FBV are not popular .. thanks to private bus body building industries and most of the transport corp have their own bus body facilities .
In the private sector we have "route" buses and Omni buses . Omni buses are the intercity buses and route buses are the buses connecting towns and the distance is not much more than 20-30 kms . Route buses do not need strong body , but need good graphics and paint , DVD video , Sound and light effects , photo frames for pictures of gods , the founder of the bus service , and rear windscreen needs to have the pic of the current sensational actress etc .
For an Omni bus the bus owner can choose the seats , layout , facilities and Fully built vehicles are general purpose vehicles which will not appeal to this market .

AL and TVS know this and that is why they rarely offer FBV . TVS used to make money seperately by selling the bus bodies , but most of the private bus owners have shifted loyalties to Karur .
Tata wants to have the cake and eat it as well ,which will not go down well in the auto industry as most of the operators in the sectors would gladly listen to a mechanic than listen to a marketing rep from Tata or leyland . Till date except for the Jnnurm scheme , i havent seen a star bus in the southern states . I dont know where Tata is selling 500 nos . Going by your calculation 500 *20 working days gives 10,000 .. so that means Tata should be selling alone 10,000 starbuses in a month .
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Old 12th November 2010, 22:55   #274
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A tipper with a factory cabin has a much lower resale value than a tipper which has its cabin built from a body builder . This was one of the reason for the IVeco range as well .
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Old 12th November 2010, 23:44   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
As for the Tata Starbus, Tata operates a completely separate factory at Lucknow, having a production capacity of almost 500 perday and is now opening another in Dharwad, just for buses, I would definitely call the Tata Starbus range a success, whatever initial problems may have been there.
500 per day? 500 Per month is more reasonable. The Dharwad plant is already operational and they make Tata-Marcopolo buses, not the Tata Starbus range. Even with 500 per month, i will still call it a Success.
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Old 12th November 2010, 23:56   #276
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500 per day? 500 Per month is more reasonable. The Dharwad plant is already operational and they make Tata-Marcopolo buses, not the Tata Starbus range. Even with 500 per month, i will still call it a Success.
Having great capacity is not a measure of success, even HM has good capacity of 500 per month.
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Old 13th November 2010, 09:15   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
buses and route buses are the buses connecting towns and the distance is not much more than 20-30 kms . Route buses do not need strong body , but need good graphics and paint , DVD video , Sound and light effects , photo frames for pictures of gods , the founder of the bus service , and rear windscreen needs to have the pic of the current sensational actress etc .
For an Omni bus the bus owner can choose the seats , layout , facilities and Fully built vehicles are general purpose vehicles which will not appeal to this market . .
This is how the HCV market is, world over.

Quote:
AL and TVS know this and that is why they rarely offer FBV . TVS used to make money seperately by selling the bus bodies , but most of the private bus owners have shifted loyalties to Karur . .
Mostly due to higher prices of TVS.

Quote:
Tata wants to have the cake and eat it as well ,which will not go down well in the auto industry as most of the operators in the sectors would gladly listen to a mechanic than listen to a marketing rep from Tata or leyland .
Well, TML knows a trick or two.

They introduced the synchro gear box, and made it a success.

AL was there first with a Synchro Gear box, but it had no takers.
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Old 13th November 2010, 14:28   #278
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I never said production was in the range of 500 per day. Production at the Lucknow plant is around 200-300 per day, but this includes all kinds of FBV buses. And the Dharwad plant is to cater to the intra-city TMML buses, like the ones that operate in Delhi. Obviously, that plant will export a good deal, and will take some time to reach full production capacity.

As for production capacity of TML plant, I can confirm the capacities of Jamshedpur and Lucknow, at 480 and 520 vehicles per day. But actual production at Lucknow is about 200-300 and at Jamshedpur is about 300-400 per day.

As for a tipper with factory body having lower resale value, I am not too sure about that, considering that Tata today rarely sells a tipper chassis. Even most of the semi-forward cab non-FBV tippers that are sold have the full cab and not the cowl.
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Old 14th November 2010, 14:10   #279
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[quote=BaCkSeAtDrIVeR;2138789]This is how the HCV market is, world over.
I did not know that .


Mostly due to higher prices of TVS.
No , because customisation was not possible while the vehicle was built . You just had to choose from a couple of drawings .



Well, TML knows a trick or two. Trick ? hmmmm . Dont know what that means .

They introduced the synchro gear box, and made it a success. I did not know that

AL was there first with a Synchro Gear box, but it had no takers. LOL .
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Old 14th November 2010, 21:17   #280
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greamana - when we built the body of our last bus in 1978/9, we were able to specify the width of the doors. Since this requires adjustment to the width between two frames, I feel that full customisation is possible.

Or have they changed their policy now?

I doubt. For example, buses in TN tend to have very wide doors, while those in KL have only (comparatively) narrow doors. I am sure TVS does nto impose that kind of rigidity.
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Old 14th November 2010, 23:55   #281
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It isnt about the doors only . TVS used to offer only wooden bodies earlier , but Karur builders used to offer full metal bodies . TVS used to have 2 windshields for the front ,and they had their own sweet time for delivery . The paint job was much better from Karur than from TVS and stickers were also better . The karur body builders offered 1 ft more in length ( rear over hang) and for bus companies it meant more luggage .Plus it was cheaper .

Last edited by greatmana2000 : 14th November 2010 at 23:56.
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Old 1st December 2010, 11:59   #282
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Tata Hispano Hybrid Buses to run in Madrid
Quote:
"Tata Motors has won an order for supplying 10 CNG series hybrid low-floor city buses, to be built on Tata Motors chassis to EMT Madrid, a Madrid city public transportation company.
Tata buses to ply with MB and IVECO buses on Madrid roads. TM buses not good for Chennai, but good for Madrid.
Also the buses look better than the Tata Marcopolo hybrid buses running in New Delhi.
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Old 1st December 2010, 21:02   #283
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Given Spain's horrible economy, I would not be surprised if they went for the cheapest option in the world.
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Old 4th December 2010, 20:53   #284
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Just travelled in KeSRTC RNC315 PLGT-TVM SF TATA. Its a Euro 3 version and have 6 forward gear and one reverse gear. But the driver could never engage the 6th gear due to traffic. Seems the bus is new but still the NVH needs vast improvement.
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Old 4th December 2010, 21:18   #285
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1. ontheroad, since pgt - tcr roads seem to be very bad, I think you should make for some allowance on the NVH front. Was there much noise on the 4 lane stretches between TCR and ANK?

2. What makes you think the bus has 6 forward gears? The first gear may be the crawler gear, so the vehicle starts to move in normal conditions on 2nd.
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