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Old 22nd May 2010, 20:11   #16
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i vote for AL, reasons are known!!!
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Old 22nd May 2010, 20:35   #17
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
i vote for AL, reasons are known!!!
What does the review card of your Viking look like now?
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Old 22nd May 2010, 20:55   #18
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I'll just say that they both fail to make the cut (Marcopolo's are an exception). They're still using leaf springs, 5-speed gearboxes, not offering any quality bodies etc.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 09:20   #19
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What does the review card of your Viking look like now?
the buses have only 5.5k on its odo, so 1st service is not yet over.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 10:49   #20
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From what I have heard and seen,

Tata buses are preferred in the ghat sections because you can quickly change gears, whereas in AL the driver needs to put in a more effort to shift gears.

Leylands have better pulling capability [torque].

Why do all the sand lorries in karnataka prefer the TATA truck, with a nose in the front, I don't recall the exact model of the tata, here is an image
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Old 23rd May 2010, 12:48   #21
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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
But mysteriously, there are several new buses - the AC and the SLF ones - moored at the BEST's Anik Depot for the last 2 months or so, they are not being released on the roads - what could be the problem?
Nothing wrong with the buses per se. It is just a case of not knowing what to do with the buses But the SLFs have started hitting the roads quite rapidly now. Within the last month itself about 100-120 of them were released. Almost all of the AC Kinglongs too are on the roads now. At the most 10-15 will be pending to be released.
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Old 25th May 2010, 15:18   #22
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
i vote for AL, reasons are known!!!
They sure are, but getting to know what prompted you to go for AL over Tata technically and otherwise would be of use to all of us.
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Old 25th May 2010, 15:56   #23
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
what I've been told by dad ( experience from workshop & working in a state transport corp)

Tata
Cheap to buy
Decent FE
relatively underpowered, hence as mentioned before, run in mostly level roads
lighter, shorter buses
Cheaper spares
Higher frequency of repairs
somewhat quiet and refined, especially the newer designs with the low engine bay & cable operated(?) gearbox
Cummins & other third party engine versions are crap

AL
Expensive
Doesnt come with the front grille
Quite powerful, so used in their ghat section routes
spares are expensive, but last, hence general perception of solid build
Noisy & not as refined
longer chassis.
nobody in the north seems to want them
Semi forward options for trucks limited/not as good
Jury is still out on the hino engines
If AL is better than Tata on ghats/mountains, still I have hardly seen any AL trucks on the himalayan routes in JK/HP. All the trucks there almost are Tata. Just mere choice of brand can't be the sole reason.
I've seen the plight of AL trucks on the Krishnagiri-Hosur section, most of the times they stop in between the road blocking the traffic, but hardly I've seen a Tata truck stopped on the way even on the steepest inclines in the Himalayan roads. They struggle but always climb even the toughest terrain, but leave the trailing people with lots and lots of smoke .
This is just an observation, and I've no doubts on the tech aspects of either of them.
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Old 25th May 2010, 17:04   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asethi View Post
I've seen the plight of AL trucks on the Krishnagiri-Hosur section, most of the times they stop in between the road blocking the traffic, but hardly I've seen a Tata truck stopped on the way even on the steepest inclines in the Himalayan roads. They struggle but always climb even the toughest terrain, but leave the trailing people with lots and lots of smoke .
This is just an observation, and I've no doubts on the tech aspects of either of them.

I have found TM trucks struggling and stopping on the Kuthiran slope along NH-47 between Palakkad and Thrissur. I've seen ALs struggling, but not to the extent of inching or stopping. The winner here has always been Volvos. I know I'm comparing apples to oranges...

You're right about Tata trucks spewing black smoke while climbing.

I think it depends on the driving style to a great extent.

I remember climbing the same slope in our M800 with 4 people on-board in 4th gear till 75% of the slope, and the remaining in 3rd gear (with AC on), while my dad's friend says he'll have to shift to 3rd before he reaches midway. He drives a first gen Esteem 1.3l.

My take on AL vs TM:
ALs make relatively more noise compared to TMs, but TMs tend to groan and spew smoke when overloaded/strained/abused
AL buses ride better than TMs (comparing KeSRTC Fast Passenger buses and TNSTC/SETC inter-city buses)
Heard from many drivers in MTC and KeSRTC that the AL steering system is relatively easy to handle than TM's
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Old 25th May 2010, 17:07   #25
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IIRC, there was a controversy regarding purchase of buses by KeSRTC some years back, due to which the transport minister had to resign (or nearly resign). Basically, the expert committee recommended to buy AL and he went the TATA way. During this time, a newspaper published the findings of the committee and there, AL's rating was better in most of the areas like engine life (almost double), mileage, maintenance etc. It was some years back; maybe others can shed some light on this.
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Old 25th May 2010, 21:30   #26
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I am just posting my reply from another thread...

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Wrt technology I can never say that Tata has more I can only say they have more JV's and nothing more.

Tata motors are definetely more smarter and more closer to people to positioning products and they got succeeded in this.
There are many success stories like Ace, 407, 2515.
By virtue of pure business point of view they are more stronger and by rightly positioning products they were selling in good numbers. I am quite sure that their products are neither superior not inferior but just meeting the requirements. The fact that is told that after 2000 their growth rate is faster is mainly because their learning curve was getting steeper with the lessons learnt from passenger cars. The reason why I compared passenger cars is unlike the CV indusrty the decision making must be razor sharp and lighting speed in order to survive in the industry.
Result, the buy out of Daewoo's Commercial Vehicle arm - To strengthen their R&D, development of trucks for Global market, Prima - To move global, launch of Ace - to target the lower end of CV segment.
I feel even we need not go back till 2000, come 2005 they were trailing behind AL in bus segment (considering their fully forward design) and now they are giving a good fight back with good tie ups with Marcopolo and with Hispano(though the later is yet to formatise). and Yes, they are growing and the reason for that I have cited above.
Come to Ashok Leyland, I could say their products are really rugged,tough and reliable compared to TML. (Critics are always welcome and I am ready to debate even further).
but at the end of the day if you could see in numbers I can tell AL is really lagging. Poor Pricing Strategy(as ALL products are dearer by 8~10% compared to TML), lack of Product strategy(more options to choose from like 1613 with SFC cowl, NC cowl etc like TML) , reduced product segmentation( only from 9T-(more specific only from 16T) to 49T GVW) or a cummulative of all the above. What ever it is ALL with its proven product line up should be more smarter and faster which its not having right now.
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Old 26th May 2010, 10:00   #27
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For me AL has always been the innovative people....since Al provided the chasis and peopel could build their own bodies i loved the front grills most of the time smiling grills ...also i remember way back in 1982 when AL introduced the gear from inside the engine which is how TATA has it after a period of 10 years i could say the first i noticed was in 1989 ...also AL introduced rear engines in the 80s they had the volvo type buses in early 90s but the market was not good then....operators like Laxmi operated these buses which always used to be premium and always booked AC air suspension rear engine buses ... TATA ACGL whenintroduced in early 90s made a good dent in to AL market many operators went in for that in the inter state segment but crumbled as it could not give the same service and life like an AL...
i once spoke to teh akbar travle driver as it used to originate from mumbai marolt o manglore they have these AC buses 12m AL....he told me volvos are beasts on highways but its the AL and TM that gives the driver teh pleasure of driving abus ...he swore by AL especially teh 12m ones andsaid he can zoom at 110 with all the load and passengers and the bus purrs like a new born....
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Old 27th May 2010, 22:30   #28
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For me AL has always been the innovative people.....
If you consider, procuring chasis from a Chinese manufactuer for low floor buses as innovation.
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Old 28th May 2010, 09:17   #29
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If you consider, procuring chasis from a Chinese manufactuer for low floor buses as innovation.
even TM is procurring chasis and parts like tyres from across the world including china...in the world of globalisation these r normal...when AL introduced home grown LF RE way back in early 90s nobody took it up for whtever reasons...the moment u have a foreign hand every one buys it...so i guess thats the strategy going ahead keep a gora in the company and the company looksnice
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Old 28th May 2010, 09:23   #30
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Let us not forget that Tata Motors derives its current technologies from Cummins, Daewoo and Hispano. Smart procurement policies today are key to cost-cutting and Chinese companies offer components at significantly lower prices vis-a-vis Indian ancillary sector
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