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Old 31st December 2010, 19:49   #301
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Default Re: Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only

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This seems to be a new body design from ACGL, may be custom for this order.
Not really. This design was first delivered by ACGL to PMPML (Pune) for a City bus. The same design has been delivered to MSRTC as "Sheetal" as well as their new Semi-Luxury bus.
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Old 31st December 2010, 20:21   #302
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From Moneycontrol dot com.

Ashok Leyland Competition, Ashok Leyland Comparison with Competitors

Figures in Rs. Crores.

Tata Motors Sales Turnover 35,593.05

Ashok Leyland Sales Turnover 7,244.71

R&D turnover for TML @ 1.2 % is 427.116

For AL, @ 2.9%, the amount is 210.09.

Leave out the SUVs and passenger segment, and I feel they are even. Going by the improvements in TML vehicles, I feel that TML is extracting more bang for the buck.

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Tata Motors delivers 1100 buses (LPO1618) to Hafil Transport, Saudi Arabia. The buses will be used for transporting school children in the city of Dammam, under the Saudi arabia's School transportation initiative. TML won this order inspite of stiff competition from Chinese makes! (Image Source: TML Strides)
Good news. Look at the first pic; the exhaust is at the rear, centre. They also are airconditioned, obviously.
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Old 31st December 2010, 21:31   #303
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Default Re: Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only

TML also gains from having shared R&D with its subsidiaries, mainly from TDCV Korea and TMETC, UK. These two companies provide a large amount of R&D services which does not show up in the R&D figures of TML directly.
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Old 1st January 2011, 22:49   #304
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Default Re: Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only

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Originally Posted by Transsenger View Post
TML won this order inspite of stiff competition from Chinese makes! (Image Source: TML Strides)
Good going TM, May be past customers of Chinese makes..
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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
This seems to be a new body design from ACGL, may be custom for this order. Also i think this has a slave engine for the air-conditioner.

Also notice the design for the windows, the lower portion is fixed, while the upper part has sliding glass panes.
Are you sure it is from ACGL, if i remember, the earlier news mentioned Tata Marcopolo school buses. But i do not see the Marcopolo name tag in the picture though.
The window design, i see most of the city buses abroad uses this design. Some times in Fall/Spring seasons, they switch off the A/C and open the upper windows. (Of course there is no difference in fare structure ac vs non-ac). In DTC A/c buses, what happens if the a/c mulfunctions in the middle of a trip?
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Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
Not really. This design was first delivered by ACGL to PMPML (Pune) for a City bus. The same design has been delivered to MSRTC as "Sheetal" as well as their new Semi-Luxury bus.
Binai, do you have pictures of MSRTCs new Semi-Luxury bus?
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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
TML also gains from having shared R&D with its subsidiaries, mainly from TDCV Korea and TMETC, UK. These two companies provide a large amount of R&D services which does not show up in the R&D figures of TML directly.
Also during the Nano design time i read an article that lot of research specific to components were done by TACO.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 07:44   #305
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Default Re: Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only

The article in TML Strides mentions that the bus is built in Goa, so I said ACGL, which is pretty much a TML subsidiary anyway.

There should not be much of a problem if the AC compressor stops functioning, as the blowers will still be able to blow in fresh air from outside, its when the blower stops functioning that the problem will arise. I think there may be multiple blowers in buses, so as to reduce chances of being left with no blowers at all.

TML always collaborates with a lot of its vendors in R&D for specific parts. So a lot of R&D on behalf of TML is done by not just TACO, but a lot of other vendors as well. These companies, collaborate with respective department of TML to develop the parts and manufacturing processes for the parts they will be responsible for.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 10:27   #306
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Default Re: Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
The article in TML Strides mentions that the bus is built in Goa, so I said ACGL, which is pretty much a TML subsidiary anyway.
A closer look at the bus' back, it is written ACGL. So it is indeed ACGL built.
My question to experts, why do they still make buses ACGL Goa, instead of Tata Marcopolo, Dharward. Lack of capacity at Dharward plant? Trade union issue at ACGL?
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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
There should not be much of a problem if the AC compressor stops functioning, as the blowers will still be able to blow in fresh air from outside, its when the blower stops functioning that the problem will arise. I think there may be multiple blowers in buses, so as to reduce chances of being left with no blowers at all.
Good point, Hope there is no single point failure with the blower system
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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
TML always collaborates with a lot of its vendors in R&D for specific parts. So a lot of R&D on behalf of TML is done by not just TACO, but a lot of other vendors as well.
Totally agree, I mentioned TACO, just because it is a Tata Group company.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 12:28   #307
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Default Re: Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only

Well, if you look at the Tata group, all the companies function completely separately. In fact, TACO is partly owned by Tata Motors as well. Also even though companies like There are other companies, like Tata Technologies Ltd, TM European Technical center and TDCV Korea which are 100% subsidiaries, they are companies all by themselves and have nothing to do with Tata Motors directly, except for a special relationship. Infact a large %age of the supplies are from vendors who are partly Tata owned, but they function as separate companies.

Similarly if you remember ACGL is also 50% owned by Tata Motors itself, in fact almost all of the buses built at ACGL are Tata buses, though they are free to build other buses as well.

Similarly, the Dharwad facility is not owned by Tata Motors, but by Tata MarcoPolo Motors Ltd, which is 50% owned by Tata Motors. The build only MarcoPolo branded buses, sourcing all their chassis from different TML facilities.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 21:59   #308
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Default Re: Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only

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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Binai, do you have pictures of MSRTCs new Semi-Luxury bus?
Yes, certainly. But they are not my pics. Image courtesy: Akshay Marathe (T-BHP Handle: AkMar).

The same design of bus was sold to PMPML (Pune) as well. The pics of that bus is there in some topic on T-BHP.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 22:22   #309
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Default Re: Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only

Thanks Binai. More or less the same design for Kolkotta JNNURM buses also?
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Old 6th January 2011, 22:30   #310
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Default Re: Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only

Last week, KaSRTC has called tenders for supply of BS3 & BS4 buses, a total of 1050 numbers. AL had already received orders for its BS4 buses from MTC. Has anybody gots details about Tata BS4 bus model?
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Old 19th January 2011, 11:56   #311
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Default Re: The Indian Bus Scene (Discuss new launches and market info here)

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Most of the STC prefer AL over Tata and TATA has more or less been a big time supplier under JNNURM scheme and nothing else . .
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Originally Posted by P4life View Post
1--> City buses procured by State Corporations are made as per JNNURM Body specifications. But each individual corporations can modify the same as per their requirements. These are done without violating base guidelines of JNNURM Specs.
150 new buses unfit to run on city streets: BEST - Mumbai - DNA
Quote:
out of the 221 new buses that the city’s largest bus service had received two months ago under JNNURM, about 150 Ashok Leyland buses were found not eligible to ply on city streets as they did not adhere to the technical specifications in the tender. This, in turn, resulted in further delay in replacing the old fleet of buses with the new ones, as per plan.
Quote:
BEST conducts a pre-delivery inspection on the new buses that it buys, and it was at this stage that the problem was discovered. Bus manufacturer — Ashok Leyland — was then asked to modify them as per the BEST Undertaking’s requirements. And he complied. However, 40 buses continue to await modification as per the BEST’s requirements.
Gupta did not give an estimate for the induction of the new buses into the fleet. Under JNNURM, the undertaking was supposed to get 1,000 new AC and non-AC buses.
I believe the same thing happened with AL's DTC order also.
Bus drought low-floors Capital - Hindustan Times
Quote:
Ashok Leyland have some issues with DTC on the specification of the buses. They will be sorted out very soon,
Looks like AL did not learn from earlier mistakes.


BEST should have gone for Tata Marcopolos, may not be as beutiful as AL, but at least consistent with the specs.
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Old 27th January 2011, 12:22   #312
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Default Re: The Indian Bus Scene (Discuss new launches and market info here)

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150 new buses unfit to run on city streets: BEST - Mumbai - DNA
I believe the same thing happened with AL's DTC order also.
Looks like AL did not learn from earlier mistakes.
BEST should have gone for Tata Marcopolos, may not be as beutiful as AL, but at least consistent with the specs.
Some info about Marcos in the MTC.
MTC has taken about 300 SLF Marco buses under Jnnurm - LPO 1618.
Those buses were also rejected like what happended to AL in BEST.
Though there is no officer to the level of General Manager for MTC unlike BEST to call a press and give info. Here everything is governed by Transport Minister only. Only after getting the required modifation was done to the buses they were inducted into MTC's fleet.
More over these buses have a ENgine oil change frequency of 9000KMS aganist the 18000KMS for AL Viking. This has made the running cost for the MTC increase twice as the tender for changing the engine oil for MTCs is inline with AL for 18000KMS.
Apart from this with feedback from drivers, as difficulty in handling the huge steering wheel, seeing through ORVMs, excess vibration, reduced clutch failure (less than half of ALs at around 36000KMS - TML is replacing them under warrenty), severe tyre shoulder wear( many buses are waiting for tyres and are standing in Depots) and most importantly the black smoke in many buses MTC have ordered only AL in their next immediate order for 2850 buses.
This is only a snap shop. There are several stories of this kind for TML across many STU's.
It should be noted that ( though replied by me in several forums) both AL and TML have their own level of product superiority and performance levels but I am quite puzzled why its always taken as AL to hit and wanted to project TM.
A market insider with a typical product knowledge will know.
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Old 27th January 2011, 13:55   #313
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Default Re: The Indian Bus Scene (Discuss new launches and market info here)

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It should be noted that ( though replied by me in several forums) both AL and TML have their own level of product superiority and performance levels but I am quite puzzled why its always taken as AL to hit and wanted to project TM.
A market insider with a typical product knowledge will know.
This is more a marketing thing than technical thing.

"Run down the competition before throwing it out".
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Old 27th January 2011, 16:01   #314
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Default Re: The Indian Bus Scene (Discuss new launches and market info here)

@Ashley2, what was the issue that the MTC found with the Marcopolos? Is it regarding the positioning of the front door?

I'd read that in Kerala, there is/was a rule that the front door should be behind the front axle, and for that reason, KeSRTC had to modify the bodies of one entire batch of buses.

But what I do not understand is, if there really is such a rule, then how is Volvo able to sell its 8400?
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Old 27th January 2011, 17:00   #315
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Default Re: The Indian Bus Scene (Discuss new launches and market info here)

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@Ashley2, what was the issue that the MTC found with the Marcopolos? Is it regarding the positioning of the front door?
That was due to difference in seating arrangement what they have quoted and supplied.
BMTC was another STU who expressed their dissatisfaction regarding the emission of huge black smoke in LPO 1618.
This is apart from the engine oil change frequency, poor driver visibility, excess body ratling/vibration and tyre wear.
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