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Old 29th May 2010, 12:51   #46
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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post


Face value of a share goes down when you split it. It doesn't have anything to do with market value of the share.

+1 , and AL has a face value of 1, compared to 10 of TATA

The total sales as shown in the chart above for Tata Motors includes passenger vehicle segment as well. Right?
IMO yes, Prateek . could some body pls dig out the sales of TATA and AL trucks only and post here ...that should be a eye opener for us in terms of sales
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Old 29th May 2010, 14:14   #47
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The conversation on AL the Infact vs. Tata the Great (as per our friend) is veering away from discussing the technical superiority issues to stock price comparisons, which is of no relevance at all. If I were to apply the same standards, then Hindustan Motors (and Ambassador) is a better car than JLR Land Rover, because HM is in the black and JLR is in the red!!!!

So, if anyone says AL is an "Infant" before Tata Motors, maybe there has to be some technical justification for that - maybe he can also tell us why the Army is foolish to buy mostly AL Stallions, or why BEST (regarded often as the best city transport company in India) is idiotic to prefer AL or the TNSTC/Private operators in TN buy mostly AL (and TN is regarded as the State with teh best bus transport network) or even why the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad bus is a AL Lynx. That and more, am sure bus operators like raj_2004 will have lots to say about the bus they own.

Never knew the Indian Army was also "Madrasi", I think that comment was a very under-belly hit. Mumbai is also a "Madrasi" place, because they buy AL buses in BEST?
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Old 29th May 2010, 14:40   #48
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Lets not tweak the "Madrasi" thing into something regional and unethical. I just used the lingo as it is used in most of the places, it is not my view. However, I won't justify this anymore.. go sue me if you want!!!

About the superiority of AL over TATA regarding the built quality and technicality, I will get the data and then will see how many "i-know-everything" kind of people comment on that.

AL is used by BEST, KSRTC, Tom, Dick and Harry so it has an upper hand on TATA.. So funny. You don't count a vehicles success by it's contract with various agencies. You count it with the Production rate+sales..!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 29th May 2010, 14:40   #49
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Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
I will get back with the real facts and figures soon. My dad works in TATA Motors (Jamshedpur) and will get all the detailed info from him too.
i think now i know why you are so hell bent on proving that TATA is superior. buddy, before you many have commented on this thread in favour of tata but none of them stirred a controversy like you did! think about it.

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I have seen these 300/day trucks being built/assembled in front of my eyes. Trust me guys, AL is still only the "madarassi" company in all comparisons with TATA.
this comment was made in a very bad taste. we never call tata to be a gujju company, we call it an INDIAN company. similarly, AL is an INDIAN company.

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With production of world trucks, TATA has set a landmark now. If you count step by step, TATA is probably on the 10th floor, and AL still not even on the first.
statements like this amuse me! go on...

mate, get this right. nobody in this forum including me is against you supporting tata, not at all. but such blatant statements shouting "i know everything & you are fools" must be avoided.

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Regarding placing order of trucks and busses - Do you know how many are manufactured in a day in both the companies? If you did, you won't even talk about it..!!!
how does that matter to the end user? well, i should not give this example but maruti makes thousands of cars per day whereas Rolls Royce makes only about 30. so does that make maruti better?

when i am in the market to buy a truck/bus, i am least bothered about the company's tradition, its market value, its share price, how big its factory is, how well paid its employees are, how many vehicles they make a day, etc. i am ONLY & ONLY bothered about the end product- that is the vehicle.

i am bothered about it's maintainence, how service friendly it is, how easily are parts available, the fuel economy, etc.


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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
So, if anyone says AL is an "Infant" before Tata Motors, maybe there has to be some technical justification for that - maybe he can also tell us why the Army is foolish to buy mostly AL Stallions, or why BEST (regarded often as the best city transport company in India) is idiotic to prefer AL or the TNSTC/Private operators in TN buy mostly AL (and TN is regarded as the State with teh best bus transport network) or even why the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad bus is a AL Lynx.
very well said. and i am sure he will not have a 'proper' answer.

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That and more, am sure bus operators like raj_5004 will have lots to say about the bus they own.
well, to be fair, i wont say that AL is the epitome in reliability or after sales service, but wherever i go & to whoever i speak, whether its bus operators or drivers, they are all praises for AL.

One operator (who also builds bus bodies) has 12 AL buses. on my inquiring that why he does not prefer tata or eicher, he told me that if you have time to spend over the bus every 3 months, you can very well buy a tata! this he was saying from his own experience.

almost every tour operators tell me that tatas does not perform well after 2 years. so in all, no stock prices or sales figures can help tata. this is actually what is called 'respect'.
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Old 29th May 2010, 14:51   #50
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BTW, India's single largest truck fleet owner VRL - Vijay Anand - of Hubli is a 100% AL fleet! If you go into monthly sale statistics, you will also note that AL has a clear edge over Tata in sale of heavy trailers (<49 tons) traditionally and continues to maintain a healthy market share in all regional markets. AS far as innovation is concerned, Al has been ahead of Tata in almost every category - this has been discussed threadbare in this forum before - and in categories like double decker buses (however small the segment may be), AL is a monopoly even today.

Lot of what has been discussed in the forum are based on real-life experience and insights from operators and users, and also random observations and hearsays over several years. Guys like us have been bus and truck-watchers since our childhood days and we have gleaned lots of interesting facts and titbits about these 2 wonderful Indian companies who stand up to MNC might even in today's "liberal economy" times. And both Al and Tata could have been Ambassadors and Premiers, peddling the same stuff year after year, but instead they have been continously introducing new products year after year.
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Old 29th May 2010, 15:03   #51
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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
If you go into monthly sale statistics, you will also note that AL has a clear edge over Tata in sale of heavy trailers (<49 tons) traditionally and continues to maintain a healthy market share in all regional markets.
Sorry, but can you put in the sale statistics here?

I think I am mistaken, I thought this thread if for TATA motors vs AL on a whole (i.e Trucks+Busses+heavy trailers+10 wheelers etc).

If this this thread is based on "views" of people who tend to see more AL buses rather than real statistics. My apologies, should have read the whole thread before budging! Discussion is over from my side.... Hail Ashok Leyland

Last edited by Ranjan Sharma : 29th May 2010 at 15:05.
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Old 29th May 2010, 15:08   #52
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We own a few trucks and i have the following things to say

AL- its more reliable than a tata and can take the mountains much more easily when compared to tata but the FE is less and has a little less loading space
TATA- FE is more and also loading area but the vehicle has reliability issues
Eg. our 1 year old 1613tc(i think) with 55k on the clock had a blown head gasket when climbing a mountain in HP

similar AL trucks carrying much more heavy load and much older don't have this problem and the above problem is not one single incident, the Himachal area is full of such incidents
so in the end i will prefer AL and is also preferred by all the truck driver i have talking to.
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Old 29th May 2010, 17:01   #53
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^^ I believe the intention of the thread was this. To know what operators (current & previous) have to tell about the vehicles in real life and not to prove that a particular manufacturer was better. So, I think we should stick to the comparisons rather than doing number crunching and bringing in arguments which does not have supporting evidence.
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Old 29th May 2010, 18:05   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manikjeet View Post
We own a few trucks and i have the following things to say

AL- its more reliable than a tata and can take the mountains much more easily when compared to tata but the FE is less and has a little less loading space
TATA- FE is more and also loading area but the vehicle has reliability issues
Eg. our 1 year old 1613tc(i think) with 55k on the clock had a blown head gasket when climbing a mountain in HP

similar AL trucks carrying much more heavy load and much older don't have this problem and the above problem is not one single incident, the Himachal area is full of such incidents
so in the end i will prefer AL and is also preferred by all the truck driver i have talking to.

That is very interesting feedback.

But why is that the entire Srinagar-Leh-Manali circuit is dominated almost 100% by Tatas then? In between, even Eicher put its foot in, but no ALs to be seen anywhere in this circuit, be it oil tankers or regular trucks?
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Old 29th May 2010, 18:22   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manikjeet View Post
We own a few trucks and i have the following things to say

AL- its more reliable than a tata and can take the mountains much more easily when compared to tata but the FE is less and has a little less loading space
TATA- FE is more and also loading area but the vehicle has reliability issues
Eg. our 1 year old 1613tc(i think) with 55k on the clock had a blown head gasket when climbing a mountain in HP

similar AL trucks carrying much more heavy load and much older don't have this problem and the above problem is not one single incident, the Himachal area is full of such incidents
so in the end i will prefer AL and is also preferred by all the truck driver i have talking to.
That's what , i reiterate few posts back . Even Himachal road transport corporation too has good fleet of AL buses in their fleet .( Will try to get the exact figure from sources ) previously it was tata , but not anymore. In addition , i guess , TATA trucks has most axle broken while climbing up hills with full load & they are always in 1st gear , puffing heavily in hills, compared to AL . Technically , i guess AL is far batter than TATA when it comes to normal 6 tyre trucks , can't say much about trailers though as i never see them in Hills...Even for the recent highways work ( UNA TO MANDI Stretch )also, it's AL 's tipper which are in use....

Again my observations are purely of a Amateur, based on day to day observation . i am a big FAN of TATA's for what they have achieved in indian and global markets...and have immense respect for them ..and no way above post is meant to under estimate , what they have achieved ..it's purely personnel opinion based on day to day experience ..

Last edited by .sushilkumar : 29th May 2010 at 18:25.
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Old 29th May 2010, 23:07   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
Saw this topic late.
@Thread creater - There is NO COMPARISON betweem TATA and AL at all.
AL is an infant in front of TATA.
@All - Whoever thinks AL has a comparative market that TATA.. you must be kidding me.
You have just peeped into this thread and concluding things with out any facts. And with a post you have made so many people fools as if they knows nothing about the trucks and buses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
I will surely elaborate more. For now, pasting this simple "internet search" graph below.
So here comes the all new way to buy Trucks,buses and cars– Open NDTV Profit, look in to the share price and finalise things. May be our friend Ranjan Sharma has got his Santro in this manner ( But puzzled how did u manage to get share price as HMIL is not listed in BSE,NSE)

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Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
I will get back with the real facts and figures soon. My dad works in TATA Motors (Jamshedpur) and will get all the detailed info from him too.
We are still waiting to see the “detailed info from him”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
Trust me guys, AL is still only the "madarassi" company in all comparisons with TATA.
THIS POINT IS HIGHLY OBJECTIONABLE AND AT NO MEANS YOU CANNOT COVER THEM WITH THE WORDS JAPANESE, GERMANS.AND YOU WANT US TO TRUST YOU...
The contextual meaning here does not sound what you say.
Mods are you watchin???

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Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
...... I meant, it dominates the South part of India ...
I still dont understand how you are able to say such statements without any logic,Stats.

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Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
A...... I will get the data and then will see how many "i-know-everything" kind of people comment on that.
I really dont wish to answer this part dear...

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Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
... You don't count a vehicles success by it's contract with various agencies. You count it with the Production rate+sales..!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then people should always buy the Alto which sells close to 20K/month. And no other bikes in India should be sold leaving the game to Hero Honda as they are selling 400000+ bikes/month.

Here is some numbers for you..
As of April 10, has a Market share of ~30% and TML has a share of close to ~60% and rest is others.Hope you are aware of the segments in which these two companies operate.Ranjan understand something we are not here to finalise that AL is superior over TML or TML is superior over AL. Its just a collective opinion and sharing of things with not just perception but from true real life experience duly supported by facts and stats.The reason for such a huge agitation is the way your views were presented and nothing more.Hope you agree things

Last edited by Ashley2 : 29th May 2010 at 23:09.
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Old 29th May 2010, 23:33   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
Sorry, but can you put in the sale statistics here?

I think I am mistaken, I thought this thread if for TATA motors vs AL on a whole (i.e Trucks+Busses+heavy trailers+10 wheelers etc).

If this this thread is based on "views" of people who tend to see more AL buses rather than real statistics. My apologies, should have read the whole thread before budging! Discussion is over from my side.... Hail Ashok Leyland
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We are still waiting to see the “detailed info from him”
Hi Ashley,

Ranjan has left the discussion, see in bold above. Let us get back to the technicalities.
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Old 30th May 2010, 07:56   #58
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Couple of points....
Stock price to extent shows the strength of the company, its profitability and capability of the management. A profitable company will be able to invest more in R&D than a company in red. This may not directly affect the purchasing decision of the customer. In automobiles, especially in Commerical vehicles, you need to ensure the company will be around for a long time to service the vehicles. (Logan)
Numbers, In fact the numbers should not matter, but if you buy vehicle that is selling in large numbers, there is good chance the spare parts will be cheaper and will be available for a longer time. Also there will be more experienced technitians and servicing will be easy. This is really important in CV. Resale value also to some extent depend on this factor.
ST. The no or types of buses baught by a ST or any such agencies do not really reflect the quality of the product, there are various other considerations that impact the decision ( Max no of buses Amount X could purchase, can the manufacturer deliver before the specified deadline, and of cource under the table dealings ). In earlier days AL concentrated more on ST contracts than bus operators, where as TM concentrated on bus operators with various finance schemes.
Word of mouth publicity. In CV, in reality nobody does a test drive like we do for a car. So we ask advice from the current owners, an operator with 12 buses or 2 buses, will always recommend the one brand they own. That is human tendancy, no body want to accept that they made a mistake (human nature). That does not mean what they got is better, because they are biased in their opinion and also never tried out all the options before making the decision. There are many satisfied Tata operators and Leyland operators in Kerala.
I am not saying one is better than the other....but pointing out some facts...

Last edited by teamveevee : 30th May 2010 at 07:59.
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Old 30th May 2010, 08:17   #59
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I have always wondered why the Indore long-distance bus operators (Vijayant, Hans, etc) have this peculiar habit of having one brand (AL or Tata) en masse for a period of, say, 3 years, after which they all seem to be switching over the other brand. e.g. 10 years ago, all had Tatas, some 5 years ago, they all switched over to AL, now they have switched back to Tata again. What is happening?
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Old 30th May 2010, 10:51   #60
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Why does the Marcopolo Tata Buses have a tendency to spew out black smoke. I have seen some of these buses deployed on the roads of Hyderabad recently and I can see them spewing lot of black smoke. Leyland(Both Old and New) on the other hand operates clean. Can gurus clarify? NVH of the sheetal Hamsa an A/C bus on Leyland chassis is very very low. This is based on my observation
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