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Old 14th June 2010, 10:12   #106
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My 2 cents:
An important consideration for bus operators is the kind of finance options they can get. If one manufacturer can offer better finance options through their own finance company/tie ups etc, operators may favor them as it lowers their TCO. The point I want to make is, there are such considerations outside the quality of the product that operators go by.
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Old 14th June 2010, 22:00   #107
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Be it the product technology, mfg technology, etc, AFAIK, both the Indian giants are at par. If it was LEYLAND for ALL, it was DAIMLER for TML during the initial days. Recent days, AL went with IVECO, now it's the turn of TML with IVECO. It is HINO for AL (engines) & CUMMINS for TML. AVIA for AL (earlier part of DAWWOO) & DAEWOO for TML. The greatest advantage for TML being the brand TATA & of course the the financial muscle of the group. ALL being owned by the LEYLAND group & associated investment criteria during the pre -liberalization of Indian economy. Still I personally rate ALL better to TML, for being the pioneer in the HCV industry, be it the DOUBLE DECKER, VESTIBULE BUS, MULTI AXLE TRUCKS, FULL AIR BRAKES, India's 1st REAR ENGINE BUS, Plug-in HYBRID (HYBUS) BUS, no need to mention about the NEPTUNE engine, all these up against the company with one of the best R&D establishment in INDIA. But full marks to TML for gauging the market & manipulating the BoM to offer the right product to the right market at the right price.
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Old 14th June 2010, 22:15   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthwheel View Post
now it's the turn of TML with IVECO..
When did TML started relationship with IVECO? Are you predicting what could happen in the future? I see it very likely.
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The greatest advantage for TML being the brand TATA & of course the the financial muscle of the group. ALL being owned by the LEYLAND group & associated investment criteria during the pre -liberalization of Indian economy.
Small diff, TML owned by Tata Group based in India. Even though ALL is an Indian comapny, it is owned by British company(Hinduja Group)
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Old 15th June 2010, 21:32   #109
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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
When did TML started relationship with IVECO? Are you predicting what could happen in the future? I see it very likely.

TML indeed is having tie up with IVECO through the relationship with FIAT


Small diff, TML owned by Tata Group based in India. Even though ALL is an Indian comapny, it is owned by British company(Hinduja Group)
What I meant was TML being a TATA group company, has very high brand recall. On the other hand, ALL is the flagship of HINDUJA GROUP in INDIA. Incidentally, ALL is owned by HINDUJA AUTOMOTIVE (formerly LRLIH which owned the original LEYLAND)
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Old 15th June 2010, 21:42   #110
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TML indeed is having tie up with IVECO through the relationship with FIAT
Not really. Tieup with FIAT is only for passenger Cars. But i would like TML to bring IVECO to India and compete with MB, Volvo, Izuzu etc at the low volume higher end (luxury bus segment). and TML concentrate totally on Mass market products.
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Old 16th June 2010, 12:52   #111
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Not really. Tieup with FIAT is only for passenger Cars. But i would like TML to bring IVECO to India and compete with MB, Volvo, Izuzu etc at the low volume higher end (luxury bus segment). and TML concentrate totally on Mass market products.
IMO, Iveco cannot sustain the brand loyalty they enjoy overseas.
They had burnt their fingers in Indian Market already with the failure of Cargo.
More over the news of TML marketing Iveco Stralis was on cards and later there is no updates, think its been discarded.
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Old 21st June 2010, 09:54   #112
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I was at Delhi last week and was able to make a few observations about the AL low floor city buses introduced by DTC alongside the Marcopolos.

They are better in terms of pick up and drivability.

The driver ergonomics though, I feel, is better on Marcopolos.

The AL buses have/seem to have more floor space.

The fit and finish of the ALs is better on the inside and the Marcopolos on the outside.

The AL buses use real big rub rails on their sides.

Drivers told me that the AL buses give them around 3.5kmpl compared to 2.75-3kmpl given by the Marcopolos.
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Old 21st June 2010, 11:26   #113
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I Drivers told me that the AL buses give them around 3.5kmpl compared to 2.75-3kmpl given by the Marcopolos.
Don't they use the same Cummins engines? or is it different in AL? (Neptunes?) can somebody confirm.
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Old 21st June 2010, 15:27   #114
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Don't they use the same Cummins engines? or is it different in AL? (Neptunes?) can somebody confirm.
They use the same cummins engine as it was a prerequisite given by DTC before placing the order with AL. The reason for this was that DTC was satisified with the performance of the TATA Marcopolo buses and having the same engine would mean easier maintenance and uniform spares ( engine-wise). Though this in a way shows the confidence of DTC in the cummins engine does it not?
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Old 21st June 2010, 15:30   #115
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Originally Posted by turbo1787 View Post
They use the same cummins engine as it was a prerequisite given by DTC before placing the order with AL. The reason for this was that DTC was satisified with the performance of the TATA Marcopolo buses and having the same engine would mean easier maintenance and uniform spares ( engine-wise). Though this in a way shows the confidence of DTC in the cummins engine does it not?
It shows more that some vested interests are at work!
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Old 21st June 2010, 17:01   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
I was at Delhi last week and was able to make a few observations about the AL low floor city buses introduced by DTC alongside the Marcopolos.

They are better in terms of pick up and drivability.

The driver ergonomics though, I feel, is better on Marcopolos.

The AL buses have/seem to have more floor space.

The fit and finish of the ALs is better on the inside and the Marcopolos on the outside.

The AL buses use real big rub rails on their sides.

Drivers told me that the AL buses give them around 3.5kmpl compared to 2.75-3kmpl given by the Marcopolos.
Being a Delhiite I disagree with you.

The low-floor AL buses are more or less at the same performance & FE levels as the Tata (Marcopolo) ones.

However, I found the ride comfort & space to be on the better side in Tata buses. The interiors of AL are acceptable to you, as you are more exposed to AL buses in your city.

Further, as per my observation the AL buses are not wider but higher, probably that creates the impression that those are bigger.

In case of DTC's low-floor order, let not discuss in detail as there were vested interests in tendering & ordering process.
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Old 21st June 2010, 18:51   #117
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Being a Delhiite I disagree with you.

The low-floor AL buses are more or less at the same performance & FE levels as the Tata (Marcopolo) ones.

However, I found the ride comfort & space to be on the better side in Tata buses. The interiors of AL are acceptable to you, as you are more exposed to AL buses in your city.
Arre baba, I m certainly not a Delhiite and my observations on FE were after conversing with DTC drivers who drive these buses on a daily basis.
Coming to the AL interiors, the acceptability is not because we have AL buses at Blore, because they were better built as per my view after travelling on AL, Tata, Eicher and other buses at many places. Also, BMTC does not have only AL. We have all brands, so lets us not get that in.
Just an opinion Saar.
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Old 21st June 2010, 19:19   #118
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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
However, I found the ride comfort & space to be on the better side in Tata buses. The interiors of AL are acceptable to you, as you are more exposed to AL buses in your city.
I do not wish to start a debate here, but couldn't it be that you feel TATAs are better because you see more of them?
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Old 25th June 2010, 15:36   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Arre baba, I m certainly not a Delhiite and my observations on FE were after conversing with DTC drivers who drive these buses on a daily basis.
Coming to the AL interiors, the acceptability is not because we have AL buses at Blore, because they were better built as per my view after travelling on AL, Tata, Eicher and other buses at many places. Also, BMTC does not have only AL. We have all brands, so lets us not get that in.
Just an opinion Saar.
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I do not wish to start a debate here, but couldn't it be that you feel TATAs are better because you see more of them?
Peace brothers...

with both of you regarding the interiors thing. Maybe, because I have been essentially exposed to poorly maintained AL buses of DTC vrs the privately owned Tata buses that are sort of better maintained than the DTC buses, that is why I am feel more comfortable in a Tata (probably I am biased towards Tata in this case).

I understand that AL vehicle engines has better pulling power over Tata, because this is what has been confirmed by a distant relative who owns a fleet of Tata + AL + Volvo trucks in NCR. As per him, Tata trucks have good mileage & pickup (discussed earlier as well), but the AL is better for heavy load lugging. But, these days Tata has come up with good trucks as per him.
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Old 29th June 2010, 15:34   #120
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Twelve thousand views to read a hundred and eighteen posts, in my opinion, mean,there are a lot of people who want to know who buys an AL and who buys a TATA of the same configuration and why, and we, at least on this count, seem to be short on information.

Hoping for some direction to the thread... :(
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