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Old 1st October 2010, 16:15   #136
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I think it's high time the Mods moved the threads NOT related to raj's AC bus to their appropriate places.

@BSD
Thanks for that piece of info With due respect, we can continue these discussions in the appropriate threads, shall we?
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Old 1st October 2010, 17:02   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
yes, the driver cabin is AC too but i think thats customizable.
Not at all, driver cabin is not air conditioned.

The very objective of having a driver cabin is to insulate passenger compartment from unwanted NVH, as its a FE model.
For more details refer my dedicated thread for iT09.
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Old 1st October 2010, 17:51   #138
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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
The best factory fitted ones in ALs are those in 12M/Stag/Cargo/ULE. But there are gaping holes which stick out like a sore thumb. AL really needs to work hard on the aesthetics of the instrument cluster in their chassis. This is one area where TM and Eicher scores over AL.
Silversteed can you elaborate on which aspect AL needs to improve in Fit & Finish as I was not understanding things rom your replies.
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Old 4th October 2010, 11:51   #139
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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Silversteed can you elaborate on which aspect AL needs to improve in Fit & Finish as I was not understanding things rom your replies.
Okay, here goes:
- Speedometer, tachometer and other gauges layout - the tach is found attached to the dash panel on a separate piece (in the Vikings)
- Better to have one standard layout common across all models
- There are uncovered holes that are given as provision for fitting something (I found a photo in t-bhp, of the KeSRTC LE bus, posted by binaiks - Can't locate now)
- I feel it's better to have a standard layout all over, instead of giving the better looking dash panel only with some models.
- Same with the pedals too - some have mechanical A-pedal, while some have potentiometric sensor type

I've compared ALs with similar TM and Eicher products. And are purely based on my observations.
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Old 4th October 2010, 12:38   #140
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+1 to that.

In fact, ALshould standardise what a driver will touch / use - I mean the driving controls. Steering wheel, driver's seat, wiper control (leave the wiper itself to body builders), headlight and dimmer, horns, etc. Leave the main controls directly behind the steering wheel, like the pic in Irizar coach in the other Irizar thread.

Whjy not make the tacho standard accross all models? (Even Tata has it standard only in Turbo engined vehicles, I believe, not sure).

Passenger cabin controls to be mounted / provisioned for with snap off covers (you can find them in cars too - just near / around the headlight levelling cover in my Wagon R, for example), and positioned to left of the driver / center of the front panel so that conductor can operate them, if required, etc.

If the chassis manufacturer provides very ergonomic provisions, which will accomodate custom built bodies, and the features are well documented with the body builders, I doubt that body builders will discard factory fitted fitings.
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Old 4th October 2010, 17:36   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
- Speedometer, tachometer and other gauges layout - the tach is found attached to the dash panel on a separate piece (in the Vikings)
The tacho what you see in Viking are retro fitted by customer. AL can always provide the same if its required. But due to various reasons they are retro fitted by customer instead of OE fitment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
- Better to have one standard layout common across all models
This is not possible as many of the control provided are completely tampered/modified by customers during body buiding. So its provided in the view that it should be cost effective and the same should be easy to replace. As you can see except the Irizar built 12M bodies other body builders dont use the Instrument cluster provided as OE fitment
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
- There are uncovered holes that are given as provision for fitting something (I found a photo in t-bhp, of the KeSRTC LE bus, posted by binaiks - Can't locate now)
The "some thing" is switches for extra horn, audio controls, fog lamp etc. This is highly essential as people need cut the dash board obruptly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
- I feel it's better to have a standard layout all over, instead of giving the better looking dash panel only with some models.
Its not the question of better looking dashboard but its the question of cost incurred for the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
- Same with the pedals too - some have mechanical A-pedal, while some have potentiometric sensor type
Dont worry here after there will be no mechanical pedals as they are obsoleted with BSII models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
+1 to that.
In fact, ALshould standardise what a driver will touch / use - I mean the driving controls. Steering wheel,
Steering wheel is common between the families as follows:
VIking/Cheetah
12M/Lynx/Ecomet
4019,4921 (with New Gen cabs alone)
FES all models-4921,4019,3516,3015,2516,2518,1613,3116 etc.(Except 3121)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
driver's seat,
Driver seat is common for models as follows:
All FES,Cowl models
All Cargo Cab vehicles (2516 RMC, Ecomets)
All New Gen models (4921,4019,3516)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
wiper control (leave the wiper itself to body builders),
headlight and dimmer, horns, etc. Leave the main controls directly behind the steering wheel, like the pic in Irizar coach in the other Irizar thread.
I think the Combination switch is also mostly common.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Whjy not make the tacho standard accross all models? (Even Tata has it standard only in Turbo engined vehicles, I believe, not sure).
Its not standard in TML also I believe

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
If the chassis manufacturer provides very ergonomic provisions, which will accomodate custom built bodies, and the features are well documented with the body builders, I doubt that body builders will discard factory fitted fitings.
No matter what you provide it will be altered by body builder. They are not altered for the want of better Ergonomics but to have a custom feel.
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Old 4th October 2010, 18:23   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Its not the question of better looking dashboard but its the question of cost incurred for the same.
Actually, if the same thing is used everywhere, will it not make more sense economically? Just a thought.

Quote:
No matter what you provide it will be altered by body builder. They are not altered for the want of better Ergonomics but to have a custom feel.
In that case, it's an altogether different matter. BUT, why do I see the same Instrument cluster, same switchgear etc in TM and Eicher buses and trucks? Only my observation. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 4th October 2010, 19:42   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Its not standard in TML also I believe
I though we are discussing about making AL a better product. :-D


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
No matter what you provide it will be altered by body builder. They are not altered for the want of better Ergonomics but to have a custom feel.

I am afraid you got that very wrong. The same body builders would not touch the instrument cluster on a Tata chassis. Ever wondered why?
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Old 5th October 2010, 10:36   #144
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@AshLey2...here are my observation (in bold)

The tacho what you see in Viking are retro fitted by customer. AL can always provide the same if its required. But due to various reasons they are retro fitted by customer instead of OE fitment.
The tacho meter is not retro fitted by any customer. AL supplies this as OE in some models only. For eg. Viking222 BS2 supplied to KeSRTC has the tacho fitted as OE. But for a private customer buying Viking222BS2 will not get the same. This is from my personal experience.


This is not possible as many of the control provided are completely tampered/modified by customers during body buiding. So its provided in the view that it should be cost effective and the same should be easy to replace. As you can see except the Irizar built 12M bodies other body builders dont use the Instrument cluster provided as OE fitment
Please note that "truck" type "combined instrument cluster unit" has started comming in 12M, LynxBS3 and StagBS3 very recently only. You will not find any private build buses with tampered unit of same kind. Its was the IVECO Cargo type instrument cluster which was supplied as OE in 12M / stag / lynx earlier and it was usually modified by body builders (b'cos of poor quality of plastic panels used).

The "some thing" is switches for extra horn, audio controls, fog lamp etc. This is highly essential as people need cut the dash board obruptly.
The point here is why can't AL put some dummy covering etc on those holes. The instrument cluster would be more better esthetically. Tata Motors use standard design for instrument cluster across all HCV (except Prima) models. They have given provisions for extra switchs also.

Its not the question of better looking dashboard but its the question of cost incurred for the same.
If provided with good dashboard, the customer neednot rebuild the dashboard, so he can save that cost.


No matter what you provide it will be altered by body builder. They are not altered for the want of better Ergonomics but to have a custom feel. Please not that the Tata buses build by these local/ private bodybuilders do not have these alterations. Why?
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Old 5th October 2010, 18:32   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
In that case, it's an altogether different matter. BUT, why do I see the same Instrument cluster, same switchgear etc in TM and Eicher buses and trucks? Only my observation. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
You are right. Body Builders rarely change the dashboards of TATA/Eicher buses.

The new dashboard provided to Vikings of KeSRTC looks really nice. There are good covers for spare "sockets" as well. The overall look is nice. They have changed the cabin layout as well.

Here are some pics:

An AC bus this time! AL Viking BS-III Delivered-img_4173.jpg

An AC bus this time! AL Viking BS-III Delivered-img_4177.jpg
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Old 6th October 2010, 06:04   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
You are right. Body Builders rarely change the dashboards of TATA/Eicher buses.

The new dashboard provided to Vikings of KeSRTC looks really nice. There are good covers for spare "sockets" as well. The overall look is nice. They have changed the cabin layout as well.

Here are some pics:

Attachment 434582

Attachment 434583
It's nice to see the gearstick in the proper position on AL's. And yes, the dash does look nice.
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Old 6th October 2010, 09:16   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
The new dashboard provided to Vikings of KeSRTC looks really nice. There are good covers for spare "sockets" as well. The overall look is nice. They have changed the cabin layout as well.
That's nice!
But still I find some gauge fitted on the right side as an afterthought. Save that, it's really good. The gear lever also looks better positioned.
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Old 6th October 2010, 10:22   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
You are right. Body Builders rarely change the dashboards of TATA/Eicher buses.

The new dashboard provided to Vikings of KeSRTC looks really nice. There are good covers for spare "sockets" as well. The overall look is nice. They have changed the cabin layout as well.

Here are some pics:

Attachment 434582

Attachment 434583
Thanks Binaiks...that was indeed a new information.
I believe the bus in picture is one among the new AL BS3 Vikings given to KeSRTC for trials. TML has also provided LP1512 BS3 with Cummins 24Valve engine on trial basis.
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Old 6th October 2010, 13:56   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
You are right. Body Builders rarely change the dashboards of TATA/Eicher buses.

The new dashboard provided to Vikings of KeSRTC looks really nice. There are good covers for spare "sockets" as well. The overall look is nice. They have changed the cabin layout as well.
These are 210" Viking - BSIII.
I shall elaborate your/others, other queries later
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Old 6th October 2010, 16:18   #150
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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
These are 210" Viking - BSIII.
I shall elaborate your/others, other queries later
Sure, Ashley2, take your time. And do come back with more insights as always
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