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Old 13th September 2010, 20:31   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
3) Veera - As devdath mentioned, all ABTx AC buses are built by Veera.
I think even ABTx are P8000 from Prakash (I travelled in one 1.5 years back). They along with ARC have shown others how they can still be a premium operator by offering only AL 12M. Would suggest that you stick to Prakash. The ABTx's fleet are more than 2 years old now and still look to hold better.

Last edited by DWind : 13th September 2010 at 20:35.
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Old 13th September 2010, 21:50   #32
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hi Raj, its really happy to see that You are going for yet another bus..my choices comes as follows. 1 if you are going in for a bus which powers the wheels as well as the ac unit with all might go for Leyland 12M 177HP one. since from the opinion of a bus driver( who is regular on 12M A/C) this one provides amazing pick up and also mileage of around 4kms (i don't know if that was an exaggerated statement). Also from regular operators too(Parasuram A/C Air bus) operating Kdlr-S.bathery this one has been proved to be a VFM model. 2 if not going for a 12M comparing the size and seat availability(considering being ac i suppose most operators prefers to go for 2*2 seating), you can also opt a regular Viking 222wb with an extra slave engine. Going for lynx/stag too i suppose you will need a slave motor to power its ac load even though it provides 120HP of power. lets see more opinions flowing in. cheers deepak
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Old 13th September 2010, 22:17   #33
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Hi Raj

I had travelled to nagarahole from chennai last year (dec20090 in Eicher 20 seater AC bus.

PLEASE DO NOT GO FOR EICHER ,its a very bad vehicle ,i dont know if the vehicle was maintained properly or not,all i can say is it didnt cross 60km/hr Even the comfort was not great

The AC was super as it had a separate engine for it.This bus from sri bagyalakshmi travels was also from prakash i guess.

BTW why dont you try TVS Body? i heard they are little expensive but are very sturdy like german cars.

Thanks
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Old 13th September 2010, 22:54   #34
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Originally Posted by smashnerd View Post
I think the A/C Irizar costs 22 lakhs just for the body. Chassis is of course separate.
if this is true, then Irizar goes out. I think Prakash body will cost only around 15 L for the AC coach. I am yet to ask the quotation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWind View Post
I think even ABTx are P8000 from Prakash (I travelled in one 1.5 years back). They along with ARC have shown others how they can still be a premium operator by offering only AL 12M. Would suggest that you stick to Prakash. The ABTx's fleet are more than 2 years old now and still look to hold better.
If Irizar is so expensive, we would stick to prakash.

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Originally Posted by urzdeepu View Post
hi Raj, its really happy to see that You are going for yet another bus..my choices comes as follows. 1 if you are going in for a bus which powers the wheels as well as the ac unit with all might go for Leyland 12M 177HP one. since from the opinion of a bus driver( who is regular on 12M A/C) this one provides amazing pick up and also mileage of around 4kms (i don't know if that was an exaggerated statement). Also from regular operators too(Parasuram A/C Air bus) operating Kdlr-S.bathery this one has been proved to be a VFM model.
I highly doubt the 177 bhp bus with AC can give 4 kmpl. Our 114 bhp bus without AC gives only 4.5 kmpl!

Quote:
2 if not going for a 12M comparing the size and seat availability(considering being ac i suppose most operators prefers to go for 2*2 seating), you can also opt a regular Viking 222wb with an extra slave engine. Going for lynx/stag too i suppose you will need a slave motor to power its ac load even though it provides 120HP of power. lets see more opinions flowing in. cheers deepak
How much P/B seats can the Viking accomodate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshguy View Post
Hi Raj

I had travelled to nagarahole from chennai last year (dec20090 in Eicher 20 seater AC bus.

PLEASE DO NOT GO FOR EICHER ,its a very bad vehicle ,i dont know if the vehicle was maintained properly or not,all i can say is it didnt cross 60km/hr Even the comfort was not great

The AC was super as it had a separate engine for it.This bus from sri bagyalakshmi travels was also from prakash i guess.
AL is almost finalized now. i just need to know if AL or any other manufacturer has launched or is going to launch any new models soon.

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BTW why dont you try TVS Body? i heard they are little expensive but are very sturdy like german cars.
As mentioned above, if they cost 22 lakhs, then they are out.
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Old 14th September 2010, 00:34   #35
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It looks like, at the moment, you are not sure about demand for Pushbacks and AC vehicles and wanted to "test the water". So if i were you, i would do this, Get the same bus as your existing ones (Same chasis Viking and body Prakash), but this time seats will be push back and A/C will be driven by a slave engine. Reasoning, charge a small premium for Pushback(if possible) and more premium for A/C. If A/C bus demand does pick up, buy an A/C bus of your choice (AL 12 M 177)next year, if not, remove A/C and the slave engine and use as a normal bus, not much money wasted.
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Old 14th September 2010, 09:22   #36
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Thanks teamveevee. even i thought of this. but then i was informed that customers wont even pay a single penny extra for P/B seats or Air suspension without AC!

second issue was the seating capacity of the Viking. with P/B seats, it can only accommodate 35 seats. but the guy who manages our tourism section (he is into group bookings and all) informed us that the bus needs to be atleast a 40 seater, nothing else!!!
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Old 14th September 2010, 09:29   #37
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Sorry for answering late,
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
thanks

but with AC, both the engines would be running. that means, higher fuel bills & more maintainence bills too.
Very true, but IMHO the increase will not be very high, and with AC the higher charges will account for the rise in running costs.

Now the thing is, it all depends on how much ac bookings you get, if your bus runs mainly in ac mode, it makes better sense to install engine mounted compressor. If you are not sure, better play safe with an auxiliary engine. That way you can keep the engine switched off if ac is not needed.
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Old 14th September 2010, 11:19   #38
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Lightbulb ABT-X : Prakash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
...Now we plan to add one more bus to the fleet & this time it would be an AC bus.... Also, we would be making the bus with sliding side glasses so that it can be operated both as an AC or a non-AC when needed...

3)...I would prefer the AC to run on the stock engine if its feasible, as it would be more economical...
I can give some inputs as a consumer : my daily commute is by company-provided A/C bus , 70kms per day :-)

The bus is a Prakash-body-built-on-AL with A/C running off main engine, with sliding window glass, 40 push-back seats, good quality interiors (since A/C venting is required). The A/C (evaporator ?) unit is roof-mounted ThermoKing.

I do not know the detailed specs, but it is definitely not the 177HP-ODGB unit. But the engine power is quite sufficient to run the A/C, and it can move briskly thru the OMR traffic, no signs of being underpowered, due to the A/C running off the main engine.

This seems to meet most of your key requirements, raj_5004 : you probably dont need to look at other chassis and body-builder combos, it probably would make better business sense to buy the AL Viking (with an engine which can comfortably run the AC ) chassis, and get the Prakash body with sliding window glass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
...5) Which coach builder? ...
My vote, from a purely consumer-based viewpoint, would be for Prakash.


Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
... ABT buses are made by Veera, ...
From what I know, all 'ABT-X travels' bus bodies are 'P8000-X2 Classic' from Prakash.
These are with sealed windows : no sliding-glass opeenable windows.

Name:  ABTXPrakashDSCN3372cropped.JPG
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Last edited by Blue Thunder : 14th September 2010 at 11:38.
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Old 14th September 2010, 11:53   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
but then i was informed that customers wont even pay a single penny extra for P/B seats or Air suspension without AC!
Agreed. But may be that could be used as the USP for your buses and may bring more business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
second issue was the seating capacity of the Viking. with P/B seats, it can only accommodate 35 seats. but the guy who manages our tourism section (he is into group bookings and all) informed us that the bus needs to be atleast a 40 seater, nothing else!!!
Not sure what exactly you mean, but if you just watch the buses at places like Munnar, you see more A/C mini buses(Force and Lynx) with tourists than the big buses. Also more seats means more taxes. What i have seen is, for weddings etc, the no of seats does not matter, it will be overloaded anyway. By the time you get the bus, the major wedding season will be over and just in time for the Sabarimala season, i dont think there will be much demand from Piligrims for the A/C bus.
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Old 14th September 2010, 12:31   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitkalindi View Post
Very true, but IMHO the increase will not be very high, and with AC the higher charges will account for the rise in running costs.

Now the thing is, it all depends on how much ac bookings you get, if your bus runs mainly in ac mode, it makes better sense to install engine mounted compressor. If you are not sure, better play safe with an auxiliary engine. That way you can keep the engine switched off if ac is not needed.
the part marked in bold is exactly what i had thought.

Our AC bus would have mostly non-AC trips!!! Thats the reason, i am thinking of going for a 114 bhp engine with slave/auxiallry engine for AC.

But then, BHPians tell me its a headache to maintain the extra engine, it is prone to issues, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
I can give some inputs as a consumer : my daily commute is by company-provided A/C bus , 70kms per day :-)

The bus is a Prakash-body-built-on-AL with A/C running off main engine, with sliding window glass, 40 push-back seats, good quality interiors (since A/C venting is required). The A/C (evaporator ?) unit is roof-mounted ThermoKing.

I do not know the detailed specs, but it is definitely not the 177HP-ODGB unit. But the engine power is quite sufficient to run the A/C, and it can move briskly thru the OMR traffic, no signs of being underpowered, due to the A/C running off the main engine.
If its a 40 seater, then it maybe built on the 12M chassis with the 114 bhp engine. but then, that would make it underpowered.

it its a viking, then i am curious on how they could accommodate 40 seats in it. is the legroom sufficient? since you mentioned, its not at all underpowered with AC on, it could be the 132 or 167 bhp Viking chassis.

Quote:
This seems to meet most of your key requirements, raj_5004 : you probably dont need to look at other chassis and body-builder combos, it probably would make better business sense to buy the AL Viking (with an engine which can comfortably run the AC ) chassis, and get the Prakash body with sliding window glass.
yes, that makes sense. If the Viking can accommodate 40 P/B seats, then nothing like it. i can go for the 132 PS Viking chassis instead of the 114 PS & run the AC off the main engine. it doesnt matter then even if the bus is running on a non-AC trip as it wont drink as much fuel as the 177 bhp 12M bus. So i dont need to think about the auxillary engine as well.



Quote:
My vote, from a purely consumer-based viewpoint, would be for Prakash.

From what I know, all 'ABT-X travels' bus bodies are 'P8000-X2 Classic' from Prakash.
These are with sealed windows : no sliding-glass opeenable windows.

Attachment 423547
Thanks for the info buddy. After i get the quotation from AL regarding the chassis, i will ask Prakash about the available dates & seat configurations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Not sure what exactly you mean, but if you just watch the buses at places like Munnar, you see more A/C mini buses(Force and Lynx) with tourists than the big buses. Also more seats means more taxes. What i have seen is, for weddings etc, the no of seats does not matter, it will be overloaded anyway. By the time you get the bus, the major wedding season will be over and just in time for the Sabarimala season, i dont think there will be much demand from Piligrims for the A/C bus.
the person i was talking about runs a tourism business & he takes group bookings, as in a group of 30-40 people, so he regularly hires a 40 seater AC bus.

Now i have the following choices in the chassis:

(if Viking can accommodate 40 P/B seats)

1) AL Viking 114 PS with Slave engine for AC
2) AL Viking 132 PS with AC running on main engine

(if Viking cannot accommodate 40 P/B seats)

3) AL 12M 114 PS with slave engine for AC
4) AL 12M 177 PS with AC running on main engine
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Old 14th September 2010, 14:16   #41
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Raj! Any reason P/B seats mandatory for the bus? Because if your bus is being used mostly for short distance (less than 400 kms / day) chartered then would suggest that you can look at non P/B but individual bucket seats like here. By using non P/B you can reduce a bit of leg room to increase the number of seat rows.

Hope you have also decided / researched on the A/C unit (Thermoking, Carrier, Kirloskar) to be fit?
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Old 14th September 2010, 15:11   #42
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@ DWind: Since, its an AC bus & could be used by tourists, P/B seats are essential. Also, its not necessary that the bus would be used only for short trips. we would hire the bus even for inter state journeys (like some picnic, college or excursion trips) & the AC bus then requires P/B seats.
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Old 14th September 2010, 16:25   #43
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Since chartered trips are not that hard pressed for time as the Inter-city services, the 114ps engine would suffice. Add a slave engine and you're good to run the AC without hurting the main engine. I know I'm contradicting myself, but after reading a few posts here, I feel that's a better choice - since you have the option to convert it to a full-time Non-AC bus in case the profits are not that great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
... its not necessary that the bus would be used only for short trips. we would hire the bus even for inter state journeys (like some picnic, college or excursion trips) & the AC bus then requires P/B seats.
From a passenger's PoV, I would prefer PB seats to normal ones. And you can fit 38 PB seats in the 12m bus, I suppose.
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Old 14th September 2010, 18:22   #44
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The AL representative would be coming to my place tomorrow or day after. I plan to take the quotation of the following chassis from him:

1) AL Viking 114 PS
2) AL Viking 132 PS
3) AL 12M 114 PS
4) AL 12M 177 PS

Then i would enquire with various coach builders whether Viking can accommodate 40 seats. if they can, then i would consider the Viking 114 PS or Viking 132 PS chassis.

* the Viking 114 PS with slave engine for AC
* or, the Viking 132 PS with AC running off the main engine

Then i would easily opt the Viking 132 PS. I think the AC can be driven off the main engine (am i wrong here?) & i wont need to install a slave engine. Since some say, the slave engine are prone to issues & maintainence, this would also be a safer option. Also, in this case, the fuel efficiency drop when running without AC wont be as significant as compared to the 177 PS 12M chassis.
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Old 14th September 2010, 20:34   #45
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Raj,
I have attached 12M product brouchers.
Wrt to Push back seats 12M can accomodate upto 44 seats and 222" Viking can accomodate upto 40 seats.
My recommendation is go for 12M and not VIking as they can take additional set of seats.
Dont opt for slave engine as its not that easy to maintain and may yield problems over sometime. Better stick to stock engine as they are already fitted with required pulleys, Compressor fitment brackets etc.
There is no second thought that they are powered sufficiently.
Also go for Air - Weveller option. That will be sufficient. If you require more luxury then go for Air - Air with semi sleeper ( seating capacity - 36 not recommended). I understand from your requirements Air - Weveller will be sufficient.
Go for ALPSV 4/114 - 205 HP or ALPSV 4/86 - 177 HP. Both are equally good though the earlier will have some marginal impact in FE.
The one used in ABT / ARC are ALPSV 4/114 - 205 HP, as they are mostly operated in Intercity operations where faster TOT is very crucial.
Again from your requirements you can narrow down to ALPSV 4/86 - 177 HP model with Air - Weveller options.

Coach - I am also getting bored with too many SMK's( Prakash) on road. Check with Irizar -TVS. IMO their bodies are equally good and rugged.
In the coach - iT09 there is no roof hatch in driver compartment area. plz add this as a point when you build the body. No idea about cost though.

( though I am following this thread I am not able to reply you in time)

Ashokleyland 12m bus overview.pdf

12 M FE Bus 205 HP.pdf
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