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Old 22nd February 2011, 17:13   #31
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Smile re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
I respect the truck drivers in general more than the morons we have driving or riding in the city in their tinny cars/"super 100cc" bikes. At least these guys know their place in the traffic and mostly they are very patient drivers.
Seriously YES! I feel very safe driving in the night along with trucks rather than negotiating stupidly driven 2 Wheelers and arrogant,criss-crossing Tata ACEs in the day time. For me, Life is very peaceful in the night. From my experience - it is the early morning, during which some sleep-lacking truck drivers hit the trees or medians.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 20:09   #32
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

@amitk26

I dont think the BharatBenz trucks will be like the sasta sundar tikau trucks that ALL and TML supply in such large numbers every month.

They will be more in competition with MAN, MNAL, ALL U-trucks and AMW. In this market, I think is more for the people who would love to buy a Volvo, if they could afford the initial and running costs. Instead they go in for a cheaper truck, but still a good bit better than the basic trucks. Here I think a little bit of high brand image always helps.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 08:47   #33
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
I dont think the BharatBenz trucks will be like the sasta sundar tikau trucks that ALL and TML supply in such large numbers every month.
..
This is also likely to changein near future.
The high power engines will be the future even from AL and TM. But now I feel even when B-B (Bharat Benz) comes it will not launch a product not more than 200 ~ 240 HP or even less than that for Tippers. But from my knowledge they are also planning for FES/Cowl options in similar lines with AL and TM.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 13:28   #34
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

If cowl options are launched, prices will fall a bit, but still not significantly enough to really compete with the level of prices that ALL and TML will be able to generate.

The major sales of TML for example are in the 1613,2516 and 2518 models, which are extremely basic trucks. I am sure same is the case with ALL.

Also, to seriously bring down prices, you need to be able to generate serious amount of volumes. Which is going to be very very tough in the face of established players like TML and ALL. And volumes not just effect the initial prices, but also the maintainance costs of such a vehicle.

The only silver lining for DICV is the fact that as of now, the demand outstrips the supply by a fair margin, thus allowing new players to join in. But Indian CV customers are very demanding from the overall lifecycle cost point of view. DICV will have to build up a stellar marketing department to make even a dent in the dominance of TML and ALL.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 13:41   #35
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Maruti - Suzuki
Hero Honda
Advani Oerlikon
Hind Dorr Oliver
Birla Yamaha
Tata Unisys
Bajaj Black & Decker
Mahindra Allwyn Nissan
Eicher Mitsubhishi
Tata Mercedes Benz

Hope you get the point. It was required by law - foreign brands had to be "indianised" back then.
How about

Ford Escort brand

Here your above logic does not fit.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 14:32   #36
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

Ford Escort? That was not a brand but a model from Ford from what I know.

Bharat Benz was a really good move from Daimler. Benz is a well known name, whereas, Daimler is hardly known to even some people in the cities. (Trust me, I was surprised myself). And adding "Bharat" to it makes it sell to customers who would rather buy TATA just because its an Indian make, hence the reliability and trust that goes with it being designed for the "Indian" roads. I have noticed that the NHs have developed quite a bit in the last couple of years and are still going even better (atleast in the south). And we need some powerful trucks which can do good time and speed. This will improve a lot of things.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 15:02   #37
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
If cowl options are launched, prices will fall a bit, but still not significantly enough to really compete with the level of prices that ALL and TML will be able to generate.
With cowl as option the competition should be head on with few thousand differance.

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Also, to seriously bring down prices, you need to be able to generate serious amount of volumes. Which is going to be very very tough in the face of established players like TML and ALL. And volumes not just effect the initial prices, but also the maintainance costs of such a vehicle.
Here one more point is not just the volumes but a similar supplier base as well. This will surely help them to reduce the cost as well.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 15:11   #38
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
If you are 40+ age and in the transportation business, and have not graduated, chances are that you have 50Lakh to spare and still call a Tata truck a "benz".
I agree with most of what you had to say except this one. The name Benz still holds GREAT value in India from the Richest to the Poorest.

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Yes they are leveraging the magic of the Benz brand name - many of our Indian consumers still refer to Mercedes as "Benz". All in all I think it is a good move.
Exactly what I am saying, even 99% of the merc benz customers would refer to their cars as Benz rather than a mercedes.

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
How about

Ford Escort brand

Here your above logic does not fit.
Excuse me, which planet are you from ? you remind me of a self proclaimed very experienced guy who swore that LG is the other name of ELGI retreads based in Coimbatore or at least the ELGI (or is ti actually LG) Asafoetida company, he would not listen that it is a Korean company which has no base in India.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 15:32   #39
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
How about

Ford Escort brand
Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Excuse me, which planet are you from ? ...
I think anujmishra meant the Escorts group, which had a JV with Ford Motor Co for manufacturing and selling Ford tractors. I remember seeing Ford Sector (or Zector?) and some 3500 (?) series of tractors during my school days.

IIRC, they disbanded the JV in the 90s and Escorts is now selling the Farmtrac brand of tractors.

In the Escorts case, they were selling a foreign brand initially - Ford. Nothing Indian in the brand as it was at that time. However, with Bharat Benz, they are trying to leverage on the Benz brandname as well as try to sound more Indian.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 15:38   #40
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

DICV is one smart alec. It not only has managed to pull out the best brains in CV R&D, marketing and procurement from Tata, ALL, Volvo Eicher etc but also introduced proven OM 90_ and FUSO engines in its HCV and LCV lineup. Also heard that they have achieved more than 85% localisation for these products.

Engineering and manufacturing has always been Daimler's strength but in the Indian CV market they will face challenges on the branding - sales - distribution and service front.

Eventhough DICV may be able to price the trucks at par with TML, ALL etc but convincing fleet owners will be a different ball game. I have worked in the CV industry for a while and know that fleet owners as well as single vehicle owners do a comprehensive TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) analysis before buying a truck and the resale value is an important parameter. With a non-existent resale market and wafer thin service line-up DICV may find it difficult to garner volumes in the initial years.

The dichotomy for DICV stems from the fact that Daimler products always have a "premium" tag attached to them and the technology and engineering that goes into them becomes the differentiator. But in this case they have done away with the "premium" tag to enter the volumes market and to distance the "BharatBenz" line-up from the MBIL "Actros" lineup and also the technology (in this case) is no differentiator.

Therefore it will be interesting to see how this plays out once the "BharatBenz" line-up is launched in the market and before that how DICV manages to create a buzz around its line-up.

P.S. - This is my first post in Team-BHP. Please bear with my boring writing style. Hope to learn more from you guys.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 15:47   #41
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
I

Exactly what I am saying, even 99% of the merc benz customers would refer to their cars as Benz rather than a mercedes.
I think this is region specific , Mercedes or merc is more popular up north.
In fact I have observed most people somehow use word merc in Delhi with K sound in end which I never heard abroad .

May be my sample is smaller or wrong though.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 15:54   #42
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Excuse me, which planet are you from ? you remind me of a self proclaimed very experienced guy who swore that LG is the other name of ELGI retreads based in Coimbatore or at least the ELGI (or is ti actually LG) Asafoetida company, he would not listen that it is a Korean company which has no base in India.
Can't get through your logic. Do you know Escort was Indian brand. I was commenting to the post where Indian name always in first and foreign partner at last. In Ford Escort brand it was just opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
I think anujmishra meant the Escorts group, which had a JV with Ford Motor Co for manufacturing and selling Ford tractors. I remember seeing Ford Sector (or Zector?) and some 3500 (?) series of tractors during my school days.
Even they were selling car with Ford Escort brand not only tractors.

But here I liked presentation of Mercedes Benz brand for India. BharatBenz suits to Indian market.

Last edited by aah78 : 23rd February 2011 at 23:58. Reason: Quote fixed.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 17:16   #43
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
I think anujmishra meant the Escorts group, which had a JV with Ford Motor Co for manufacturing and selling Ford tractors. I remember seeing Ford Sector (or Zector?) and some 3500 (?) series of tractors during my school days.

IIRC, they disbanded the JV in the 90s and Escorts is now selling the Farmtrac brand of tractors.

In the Escorts case, they were selling a foreign brand initially - Ford. Nothing Indian in the brand as it was at that time. However, with Bharat Benz, they are trying to leverage on the Benz brandname as well as try to sound more Indian.
Escorts had two technical collaborations. The one with Ford resulted in the FORD tractor lineup (now branded as FARMTRAC, post expiry of collaboration) whereas the other one, with a Polish company resulted in Escort 335 series. There was no Zector from Escorts. Zetor was a Czec company which had a collaboration with HMT which manufactured and marketed Zetor tractors in India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Can't get through your logic. Do you know Escort was Indian brand. I was commenting to the post where Indian name always in first and foreign partner at last. In Ford Escort brand it was just opposite. Even they were selling car with Ford Escort brand not only tractors.
@ Anuj, Ford Escort had nothing to do with the Escorts group. There was nothing Indian about the "ESCORT" in "Ford Escort" a brand Ford used internationally, not just in India.

Last edited by directinjection : 23rd February 2011 at 17:32.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 17:44   #44
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

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Escorts had two technical collaborations. The one with Ford resulted in the FORD tractor lineup (now branded as FARMTRAC, post expiry of collaboration) whereas the other one, with a Polish company resulted in Escort 335 series. There was no Zector from Escorts. Zetor was a Czec company which had a collaboration with HMT which manufactured and marketed Zetor tractors in India.
My bad. Mixed up HMT and Ford with that. The Zetor was like a pony while the Ford looked like a proper workhorse.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 20:47   #45
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Default re: Daimler Trucks now known as "BharatBenz" in India! EDIT: Launch details on pg5

@Ashley

Agreed that most suppliers will be shared by TML and DICV, but remember, it wont be the same parts. The percentage of proprietary parts used by Tata today are very minimal. Also thanks to the Tata volumes, they can always bargain for lower prices of the same parts.

They key word you used is "similar". This will definitely reduce the costs, but still not to the level of Tata or ALL. Volumes are just too tough to beat. The only silver lining like I already mentioned will be shortage of supply from both ALL and TML.

Which is why I would much rather have kept the premium tag, but undercut the prices of AMW, ALL U-trucks, MANs etc and enter the fastest growing segment of the market, where the strength of the brands is still not that strong.

In today's low end high volume CV market, ALL and TML are like Coke and Pepsi. There is just no way to make a dent in that market. The only thing to do with that market is to forget it and let it die a natural death, which should take about a decade, and not try to enter that market.

@RideTechie

Pulling in the best talent from ALL and TML is no big deal in my opinion. The automotive industry labour today is extraordinarily fluid for a manufacturing industry. The attrition rate in this industry is probably only second to the IT industry. Believe me, I have been there.
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