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Old 17th March 2016, 14:06   #61
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Default re: Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi EDIT - Reliability Concerns Noted (Page#8)

Graaja, Please send me the wiring scheme as I am also using the autolight module from aliexpress. The installer is suggesting that if simultaneous signals are sent there might be a risk of ecu failure which I think is a vague argument.
If you can send the wiring scheme it be of immense help.
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Old 17th March 2016, 14:18   #62
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Default re: Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi EDIT - Reliability Concerns Noted (Page#8)

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Originally Posted by sunilsoft View Post
Graaja, Please send me the wiring scheme as I am also using the autolight module from aliexpress. The installer is suggesting that if simultaneous signals are sent there might be a risk of ecu failure which I think is a vague argument.
I do not have the wiring schematic. But when I did the wiring cleanup, I remember that the relay module had two wires to which the High and Low beam signals from the stock harness were connected.

How is your setup done? Your relay control should also have two inputs for high beam and low beam signals. When you connect these signals, and do a flash, then it should work.
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Old 17th March 2016, 14:27   #63
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Default re: Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi EDIT - Reliability Concerns Noted (Page#8)

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
How is your setup done? Your relay control should also have two inputs for high beam and low beam signals. When you connect these signals, and do a flash, then it should work.
The low beam and high beam are two wires that are separately connected to highbeam and lowbeam. When the light is on I am able to switch to high beam and low beam but I am not able to flash when the light is off.

The installer is asking me that if he provides current to the highbeam with the low beam the high beam will always be on when the low beam is triggered.
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Old 17th March 2016, 14:37   #64
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Default re: Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi EDIT - Reliability Concerns Noted (Page#8)

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Originally Posted by sunilsoft View Post
The low beam and high beam are two wires that are separately connected to highbeam and lowbeam. When the light is on I am able to switch to high beam and low beam but I am not able to flash when the light is off.

The installer is asking me that if he provides current to the highbeam with the low beam the high beam will always be on when the low beam is triggered.
It is the other way. You have to power the low beam from high beam through a diode. In this way, when you turn on low beam, it will not trigger high beam. But if you trigger high beam, if there is no signal on low beam, the high beam will drive the low beam.
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Old 18th March 2016, 02:28   #65
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In your case have you used the.diode method.
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Old 18th March 2016, 05:44   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilsoft View Post
In your case have you used the.diode method.
No. I did not use diode. As I don't know your wiring scheme, this is just a suggestion which has a 50-50 chance of working.
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Old 18th March 2016, 07:08   #67
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Whenever possible send me pictures of your wiring so that I can replicate the same
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Old 18th March 2016, 08:25   #68
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Hello Graaja,
I have found the following solution to the flashing light problem on a different forum:
Another issue with the bi-xenon setup is how to get the high-beam flash to work. (I mean the possibility to flash the high beams even when you don't have the low beams on). The problem here is, that the new headlights use the high beam +12V signal only to move the shutter. This presupposes that the low beams are on, powering the xenon bulb. This is not the case when you're using the main beam flash while the low beams are off. It took me a while to come up with the simplest solution, but there is one: you will need to add a single pole double throw relay which can well be a part of the "connector adapter" between the headlight and the car's wiring loom. The relay has a pretty simple function: you use the low beam trigger to power the relay's coil. The common pole goes to the xenon ballast of the headlight. The normally open pole goes to the low beam +12V. The normally closed pole goes to high beam +12V. This simple wiring does the trick. Whenever the low beams are on, the relay is pulling and the xenon bulb is powered by the low beam +12V. The +12V remains even if you switch on the main beam. Whenever the low beams are off, the relay is not pulling. The xenon ballast is wired via the normally closed pole to the +12V for high beam. Now, the high beam flash works as intended. If you're really smart, you have realized that in this case there is kind-of too much load on the +12V for high beams: there is the power resistor "emulating" the high beam and now (in the flash mode while low beams are off) the xenon is also powered via this same wire. This should not cause a problem and definitely does not burn a fuse.

This seems to work but I have two questions:
1. What should be the Amp of the relay. Would 30A relay be good for the purpose?
2.In the last lines he mentioned about power resistor. Please explain where to get it how it can be used in this application.

Thanks for helping.
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Old 18th March 2016, 11:56   #69
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Default re: Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi EDIT - Reliability Concerns Noted (Page#8)

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Originally Posted by sunilsoft View Post
Hello Graaja,
I have found the following solution to the flashing light problem on a different forum:...

This relay method may be required when the high and low beam signals from your wiring harness directly drive the ballasts. However, if you have a relay module in the present setup, you do not need a relay to achieve this function. In the other post which you have referred what the author refers as a power resistor is not a physical resistor, but the load present on the high beam signal as the high beam signal is now driving both the low and high beam inputs in flash mode. Again, this is a concern only if you are directly driving the ballasts from the low and high beam signals from the wiring harness. If you use a relay module, the low and high beam signals on the wiring harness will hardly see any load.

Below diagram shows how the high and low beam signals should be connected to the relay module. Make sure that this is the case with your wiring as well.

Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi. EDIT - Reliability concerns on page 8-projector-wiring-woraround.jpg

The relay module then supplies power to the ballast and also to the high beam shutter solenoids. During normal operation, when you turn on headlights, the low beam signal is on. The relay module now powers both the ballasts and the HID lights turn on. The shutters remain off and hence you have a restricted low beam pattern. When you turn on high beam, the low beam signal remains on, and the high beam signal also turns on. Now the shutters are operated and the beam pattern is unrestricted and is the high beam pattern.

Now with the auto head light switch, when the headlight is turned off in the daytime, both high and low beam signals are off. When you flash, the headlight switch powers both the high and low beam signals, and the low beam signal turns on the ballast and the high beam signal opens the shutter. So, you get the flash to work. This is how it works in my car.

However, if this is not working in your car, there can be two reasons.

1. When the headlight is off and you flash, the switch only turns on the high beam signal. Because of this only the shutter operates, and the light does not come on.
2. When the headlight is off and you flash, the swtich turns on both high and low beams, but for some reason your lights do not turn on.

If the issue is #1, then we can solve it using a very simple work around. To check if this is the case, follow the below test procedure (you can ask your installer to do this)

1. Take a test lamp. Connect one wire of the test lamp to the -ve of the batter or the chassis
2. Turn on the headlight. Connect the other wire of the test lamp to the low beam signal. The test lamp should glow
3. Turn on the high beam. Connect the test lamp to low beam and high beam signals. It should glow for both the signals.
4. Turn off the headlight, and just operate the flashing switch. With the test lamp test the low beam and high beam signals. If test lamp glows for both the low and high beam signals, then there is something wrong with the relay module wiring. Troubleshoot and fix.
5. If the test lamp does not glow for the low beam signal, but glows for the high beam signal, then the following workaround will solve the problem.

Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi. EDIT - Reliability concerns on page 8-projector-wiring.jpg

Introduce a diode between the low beam signal from the wiring harness and the low beam input of the relay module. The anode of the diode should be connected to the low beam signal of the wiring harness, and the cathode to the relay module. Introduce another diode between the high beam signal on the wiring signal to the low beam input of the relay module. Anode should be on the high beam signal and cathod should be on the low beam input of the relay module.

This is how the setup would work.

A diode allows signal to pass only in one direction. If there is no signal on the low beam signal and there is a signal on the high beam signal, then the diode will pass the high beam signal to the low beam input of the relay card. This will turn on the HID ballasts as well and the lights would come on. During normal operation when the low beam signal is present, the diode from the high beam signal will not do anything.

Use 1N5402 for the diodes. These diodes are rated at 200V and 3A, and so are very safely overrated for this application. You can get 1N5402 diode from any electronic shop.

The diode will look like this. The side that has the white band is the cathode.
Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi. EDIT - Reliability concerns on page 8-diode.jpg

While connecting the wires to the diodes, make sure that the joints are properly made (solered preferably), and insulated well (preferably using a TESA tape, or heat shrink tubes). Any loose connection will affect the operation of the projectors and ballasts. Also make sure your installer understands this schematic and does it correctly. Otherwise you could blow fuses or damage components.

Good luck with the DIY. Let me know how this works.

PS: If you are using the automatic headlight switch, then this switch should definitely turn on both high and low beam signals. First verify and confirm this before proceeding to the workaround.

Last edited by graaja : 18th March 2016 at 12:00. Reason: Updating block diagrams with better image
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Old 18th March 2016, 20:36   #70
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Default re: Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi EDIT - Reliability Concerns Noted (Page#8)

Graaja,
First thanks for the time you have provided in helping me.
I have just gone through your post, In diagram 1 you have mentioned there would be two inputs to the relay. High and low.
On a typical relay there are pins common(30),85(ground),86(switch),87a(Normally Closed) and 87(Normally Open). How it should be wired or should I be using a DPDT relay or two relays. Please let me know how to wire this relay.
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Old 18th March 2016, 21:10   #71
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Default re: Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi EDIT - Reliability Concerns Noted (Page#8)

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Originally Posted by sunilsoft View Post
Graaja,
First thanks for the time you have provided in helping me.
I have just gone through your post, In diagram 1 you have mentioned there would be two inputs to the relay. High and low.
On a typical relay there are pins common(30),85(ground),86(switch),87a(Normally Closed) and 87(Normally Open). How it should be wired or should I be using a DPDT relay or two relays. Please let me know how to wire this relay.
The relay I have shown in the block diagram is the BiXenon relay harness. This is not a regular relay. What I have in my car is like this. The high and low beam signals are connected to two wires that go into the relay module. The module has two sets of outputs. In each set there is one connector that connects to the ballast input, and another connector that connects to the shutter control signal that comes from the projector.

I think there are some relay harnesses where only the low beam is input to the relay, and the output of the relay powers the ballast. The shutters are directly controlled by the high beam signals on each head light.

Maybe experts like Gannu can add more information that can help you.
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Old 18th March 2016, 21:15   #72
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Smile re: Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi EDIT - Reliability Concerns Noted (Page#8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post

I think there are some relay harnesses where only the low beam is input to the relay, and the output of the relay powers the ballast. The shutters are directly controlled by the high beam signals on each head light.

Maybe experts like Gannu can add more information that can help you.
I think I have found the problem the installer has directly connected the shutters to the high beam signals.
Would be trying out the same in the morning. God Willing I will be able to fix this issue.
Thanks
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Old 20th March 2016, 08:10   #73
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Hello graaja,I was checking the wiring and found out that the installer didn't use relay and that was causing the problem. Now I need is a relay ,installer is saying is not available in the market. If you know about the bixenon relay and from where I can buy. Please let me know.
please provide 10 pin connectors pin diagram if you can.

Last edited by sunilsoft : 20th March 2016 at 08:12.
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Old 20th March 2016, 10:25   #74
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Default re: Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi EDIT - Reliability Concerns Noted (Page#8)

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Originally Posted by sunilsoft View Post
Hello graaja,I was checking the wiring and found out that the installer didn't use relay and that was causing the problem. Now I need is a relay ,installer is saying is not available in the market. If you know about the bixenon relay and from where I can buy. Please let me know.
please provide 10 pin connectors pin diagram if you can.
I do not know much about relay harnesses. For me the projectors came with relay harness. Which projectors have you installed? If you used Morimotos, they come with relay harness.

Search Amazon.in for "Bi-Xenon relay harness". There are many products available. But you will have to choose the right one that matches your headlights. Usually you have specific harnesses for H7 or H4 etc.

Last edited by graaja : 20th March 2016 at 10:27.
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Old 21st March 2016, 19:48   #75
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Graaja,
Finally Fixed the high beam pass issue. On Sunday, I had decided to check the wiring of projector headlights with the help of a known installer. What I found was that retro rides(installer who had installed the projectors)didn't use any relay in the wiring. I called up retro rides who had installed the projectors. The answer was that polo already has a relay so we didn't use relay and wiring was like
  1. Low Beam connected to Low Beam (Ballast Signal)
  2. High Beam Directly connected to Shutter of the Projector.
So the local installer which has been known to me since my childhood told me that we need to use the relay. So he wired the relay and routed connections from the 10 pin connector using (1J0 973 835 adapter)to relay and then to ballast. Still the problem remained same. . When the lights controller was set to off or auto in the day time, we pulled the stalk again no lights but the shutter was responding.
Then we checked the output from the 10 pin connector. When we pulled the stalk, only high signal was coming on and no low signal was there irrespective of whether the lights controller was on Auto, off or parking mode.
Then we searched for the diagram of a bi-xenon relay and we found out that a bi-xenon relay is a combination of two relays working together where relay A's high output signal becomes the low input trigger for the relay B. Thus when the stalk is pulled for pass the the relay A pulls the shutter and also provides the low signal to the ballast.

Now another roadblock was how to arrange a bi-xenon relay. I searched many shops but all had Normal relays which they use for H4 headlights for 100/90 bulbs. Thus we decided to go ahead and use two relays and wire them in a manner to create a a bi-xenon relay. We tested the combination, and after changing the wiring combination the projector lights were functioning as intended.

After 3 days of hard work on this finally slept peacefully. Next morning started early to Chandigarh and projectors provided great illumination on the road. I was driving very comfortably at triple digit speeds. Thus the amount seems to be well spent on projector setup which is around Rs. 35000 including 6000 paid for old model headlights. I have also ordered headlight leveling motors from aliexpress for Rs. 4500 including DHL shipping, VW was asking for 13200 for set of two motors (Rs 6600 for a piece),would be getting them by 28th March.

Apart from the passing issue, Fitting and alignment of projectors by retrorides delhi was good.
A big thanks to Graaja for his prompt answers and support without his contribution I might never had been able to resolve the issue.

Would be posting the pictures in the next post.
Sorry Graaja for hijacking your thread

Last edited by sunilsoft : 21st March 2016 at 19:57.
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