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Old 7th July 2010, 18:03   #16
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
I had similar queries in mind.

Also, what are the risks involved in a set-up like that?

Really no offense but this seems too good (and too inexpensive) to be true.

Hence, a detailed explanation plus some concrete data to gauge the effect in performance will be highly appreciated.

Lastly, Is a similar set-up likely to be as effective on a petrol engine? If that is the 'set-up' in question is effective at all.
I am not in a mood to experiment on my Baleno but it would not hurt to try on an old Alto we have.


Regards.

Without going into the nitty-gritties.This will result in more fuel consumption

Higher engine wear and tear

More carbon buildup

Eventually a shorter engine life overall.

Last edited by dadu : 7th July 2010 at 18:04.
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Old 7th July 2010, 18:08   #17
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Real remaps are proper intellectual property. Four dimensional maps involving fuel, ignition, cam phasing and valve timing is a serious amount of work.
What is Cam phasing?

Valve timing can only be adjusted if you have VTEC [or other similar technology] in the head right?
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Old 7th July 2010, 20:38   #18
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we ve tried this kind of a mod on a Palio 1.2.The car feels effortless to drive in 2 nd gear now.
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Old 8th July 2010, 03:00   #19
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so the ECU will inject more fuel thinking that the air going in the cylinders is colder, and therefore denser. This makes the engine run a little richer
The engine should be fed with optimal fuel right? If the mixture is running rich, you get the same performance for added fuel isn't it?

Quote:
The improvements would be a little more for Diesel cars. For petrol vehicles, they would range from none to marginal
Again, if the mixture is rich, no matter Petrol or Diesel the performance is going to be the same isn't it? How does Diesel fair better over Petrol? Pls help understand both the points.
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Old 8th July 2010, 03:36   #20
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
The engine should be fed with optimal fuel right? If the mixture is running rich, you get the same performance for added fuel isn't it?
Depending on the stock Air/Fuel ratios, adding more fuel can decrease performance. Maximum torque occurs at AFRs of 13.2:1. Anything lower than that and the primary function of the extra fuel is cooling the intake charge as it rushes into the combustion chamber. This is all about Gasoline/Petrol engines.

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Again, if the mixture is rich, no matter Petrol or Diesel the performance is going to be the same isn't it? How does Diesel fair better over Petrol? Pls help understand both the points.
This observation was based plainly on the fact that Diesel tuning boxes seem to actually make a noticeable difference in the amount of power when they make the engine run richer compared to stock. Still, law of diminishing returns applies and this is only valid for small increases in fuel injection. If you go nuts and try dumping more fuel than necessary, it will just come out the back as black smoke.
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Old 8th July 2010, 04:29   #21
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This is not what performance tuning is about.

As Pranavt stated there is more to mapping..

It will lead to overfuelling, which will kill the turbo.

I take it that your ECU is an EDC15, which might let you get away with it long term not going into limp mode.

Try doing this on a EDC17 and you will be in for a nasty surprise.

On petrol engines this mod is counterproductive as the ECU has got quite a few more sensors that will compensate for it and often sends the ECU into a fixed routine.

I would leave my hands of such a modification.

A re-map is something different.
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Old 9th July 2010, 19:19   #22
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Originally Posted by air870 View Post
I ve just done a really cheap mod on my octy. we soldered a 2.2K ohm 1/4 W resistor on the number 7 pin wire of the injection fuel pump connector[ yellow blue/ green] and also a similar resistor on the number 1 pin wire of the MAP sensor both were properly insulated after that. The purpose was to intercept and alter the readings fed to the ECU of fuel and IAT and lower them substantially.Can be checked on VCDS. The resistors cost about a rupee each. I ve noticed a marked improvement in performance.
Hi Buddy, I am interested in doing the same mod. Sounds really cool and seems that there is a improvement in the performance.

Please tell me where can i get it done as I dont really a know of tech stuff. I stay in Mulund, Mumbai. If you wanna meet up and help me out, Im game..!
Else, please tell me any good garage/ mechanic where you recommend.

Thanks. Cheers..!
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Old 11th July 2010, 06:21   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprucegoose View Post
Valve timing can only be adjusted if you have VTEC [or other similar technology] in the head right?
Not really ! It is not as simple as the word!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
Depending on the stock Air/Fuel ratios, adding more fuel can decrease performance. Maximum torque occurs at AFRs of 13.2:1. Anything lower than that
Ideal stoic ratio is 14.7: 1 right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPH View Post
It will lead to overfuelling, which will kill the turbo.
Peter, Hi, How does overfuelling kill the turbo? IMO should it not come out as unburnt black smoke!!??

cheers
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Old 11th July 2010, 08:41   #24
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Ideal stoic ratio is 14.7: 1 right?
cheers
14.7:1 is the theoretical stoichiometric ratio for pure petrol (for diesel its 14.6:1). The car at different situations needs slightly altered ratios. For example, at idling, a rich mixture is required which goes on leaning till stoichiometric ratio till nearly full throttle conditions where again a slightly rich mixture is required. All this is taken care by the ECU in our cars but in the days of carburetted cars there were different interrelated circuits in the carburettor like idling circuit, transition circuit, main-jet circuit and power circuit (where the air correction jet comes in).

The key to performance is inducing more air-fuel mixture in the engine (than rather just fuel). After a calculated restriction on natural induction, forced induction techniques like turbos are used to force induct more air and correspondingly more fuel.

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar

Last edited by adheesh : 11th July 2010 at 08:46.
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Old 11th July 2010, 11:22   #25
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Air870, I think you got for 2 bucks what others pay 10 grand for

1. Pictures?

2. How about dyno'ing the car to gauge any increase in BHP, however marginal?

3. Do you have access to a G-tech to time the 0 - 100? If not, we can arrange for the same. Will be fun to time the improvement.
Am due in at KS on monday for a Dyno. Will post numbers then. however I cant give you the difference brought about by this mod as I had not measured the car before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
@Air870 : What & how did the readings change ?

What exactly is the difference in the performance ? How did you measure it ? And what ALL are the changes ?
Performance difference is purely by seat of pants feel as i ve no figures to compare. however the readings are reflected on VAG-Com in the respective measuring blocks.

HOW TO tamper with the fuel temp sensor like KERMA - TDIClub Forums

Quote:
Originally Posted by adheesh View Post
14.7:1 is the theoretical stoichiometric ratio for pure petrol (for diesel its 14.6:1). The car at different situations needs slightly altered ratios. For example, at idling, a rich mixture is required which goes on leaning till stoichiometric ratio till nearly full throttle conditions where again a slightly rich mixture is required. All this is taken care by the ECU in our cars but in the days of carburetted cars there were different interrelated circuits in the carburettor like idling circuit, transition circuit, main-jet circuit and power circuit (where the air correction jet comes in).

The key to performance is inducing more air-fuel mixture in the engine (than rather just fuel). After a calculated restriction on natural induction, forced induction techniques like turbos are used to force induct more air and correspondingly more fuel.

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar
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Last edited by Rehaan : 14th July 2010 at 13:54. Reason: Please use the EDIT or MUTLIQUOTE buttons rather than making multiple consecutive posts. Thanks.
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Old 11th July 2010, 12:18   #26
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Peter, Hi, How does overfuelling kill the turbo? IMO should it not come out as unburnt black smoke!!??
The unburnt smoke partly penetrates the turbo bearings, where the hard carbon deposits slowly kill the bearings, which turn leads to turbo failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adheesh View Post
14.7:1 is the theoretical stoichiometric ratio for pure petrol (for diesel its 14.6:1). The car at different situations needs slightly altered ratios. For example, at idling, a rich mixture is required which goes on leaning till stoichiometric ratio till nearly full throttle conditions where again a slightly rich mixture is required. All this is taken care by the ECU in our cars but in the days of carburetted cars there were different interrelated circuits in the carburettor like idling circuit, transition circuit, main-jet circuit and power circuit (where the air correction jet comes in).

The key to performance is inducing more air-fuel mixture in the engine (than rather just fuel). After a calculated restriction on natural induction, forced induction techniques like turbos are used to force induct more air and correspondingly more fuel.

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar
In practical terms the stochiometric ratio is never applicable.

At idling the AFR is usually lean (17:1 or even leaner), not rich. Above idle the AFR decreases and varies depending on load factor.

On normally aspirated cars in most applications it goes as low as 13:1 in some applications even around 12:1.

On high performance turbos it can be necessary under full load to go as low as 9:1, but most turbos are above 11:1.

On cold start in cold ambient conditions the AFR can be as low as 8:1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by air870 View Post
This article has got at least 2 dozend inaccuracies.

And you can't carry theses results over to any other engine configuration.

Last edited by Rehaan : 14th July 2010 at 13:54. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the MULTIQUOTE button instead of making multiple consecutive posts in the same thread. Thanks.
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Old 11th July 2010, 19:36   #27
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What ! Rs 2 upgrade ? is this working fine,i mean will it not affect emission norms of the vehicle.

Hope there is no major install or workmanship required for this
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Old 11th July 2010, 22:53   #28
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Originally Posted by joshguy View Post
What ! Rs 2 upgrade ? is this working fine,i mean will it not affect emission norms of the vehicle.

Hope there is no major install or workmanship required for this
Pls read the first post.
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Old 12th July 2010, 17:18   #29
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Originally Posted by joshguy View Post
What ! Rs 2 upgrade ? is this working fine,i mean will it not affect emission norms of the vehicle.

Hope there is no major install or workmanship required for this
Maybe a new turbo or in same cases a replacement engine. Nothing major really considering all the money you save on the resistors.
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Old 13th July 2010, 02:05   #30
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Originally Posted by air870 View Post
Am due in at KS on monday for a Dyno. Will post numbers then. however I cant give you the difference brought about by this mod as I had not measured the car before.
Dyno ed. 140Bhp/ 240 tq at 2600rpm. WMF file from KS. Cant upload.
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