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Old 5th August 2010, 12:39   #256
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Scandal in the tool shop! Allen Key turns transsexual
Allen -> Ellen . It is my fault, realized too late, Thanks
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Old 5th August 2010, 13:17   #257
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@Omishra - you got me confused initially, but then I Googled to get the right spelling.

How about using a Lock Grip Plier to unscrew the stubborn screws/bolts? I don't know about its real usage & hence seeking an opinion. Any information on this is highly appreciated.
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Old 5th August 2010, 13:22   #258
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... Warning collecting tools may create Trouble in Family
Tell me about that - my tools have been banished to the basement!

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... Photo 3 I got this frame ...
There seems to be a 'machaan' dangling there. Making a safe assumption (that you don't / wouldn't ferry vegetables from nearby villages to the market on a Landy roof carrier), are you a wildlife photographer or guide by any chance?

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... small bolt of 8mm that I'm unable to open.
The 'traditional mechanic' method on stripped hex bolts heads is to use a hammer and chisel: done right (you have to hold the chisel almost tangential to the bolt head) one can patiently hammer the bolt loose till you can grip with a "plas" (pliers ). The hammering action usually dislodges the "jaam" (adhesion) making it easier.
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Old 5th August 2010, 13:24   #259
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The 'traditional mechanic' method on stripped hex bolts heads is to use a hammer and chisel: done right (you have to hold the chisel almost tangential to the bolt head) one can patiently hammer the bolt loose till you can grip with a "plas" (pliers ). The hammering action usually dislodges the "jaam" (adhesion) making it easier.
Sir, that will not work out here in the case of disc brake screw. I don't know how to explain. Let me try taking a pic of that & show it to you. If I cut open, then the entire caliper has to be thrown away.

Meanwhile, I'll get that WD40 stuff & pour on it & give a try.

Edit - Looks like WD40 has lots of products. Which one should I choose? Any idea? Also I think it may not be available easily or am I wrong?

Last edited by aargee : 5th August 2010 at 13:29.
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Old 5th August 2010, 13:35   #260
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...I think it is all the same stuff, just packaged in different ways. You can get a spray can, comes in various sizes.

O course, you do not want to get this anywhere on your brake disk or pads, where lubrication could be lethal

Hammer and chisel: that would be a "cold" chisel, not a woodworking chisel, right?

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 5th August 2010 at 13:38.
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Old 5th August 2010, 13:43   #261
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Ofcourse, not on the pads & disc. But I'm wondering why I cannot wash it off if it were on the disc?

I already blunted 2 of my wood cutting chisel by using it on metal & that's the reason for me to go for the new Bosch tool. I'm not using option two that was suggested. I'll post the pic in the evening.

Any idea where I can get a WD40 in Chennai @Thad?
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Old 5th August 2010, 14:01   #262
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Tell me about that - my tools have been banished to the basement!

There seems to be a 'machaan' dangling there. Making a safe assumption (that you don't / wouldn't ferry vegetables from nearby villages to the market on a Landy roof carrier), are you a wildlife photographer or guide by any chance?.
Aa ha , hope they( family)won't lock you up in the basement

I am not a wildlife photographer , but is a dream job for me.

The Idea of ferrying things is good ,I will try do that ( I need that for my business also )

Actually this Machaan /carrier was used by one of my Landy owner friend on his Vehicle . He has done Camping to ferrying ( people & goods may be livestock too ) & god knows what other purposes .Now he has given it to me , Hoping that I will do all the things he has done with it
He is a great guy named Leslie Dean

Thanks

yours Sudarshan
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Old 5th August 2010, 14:44   #263
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... Which one should I choose? ...
The spray can in the Wiki article. Comes with a pipe to get the jet into tight spaces. Would be available in any industrial supplies hardware store.

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
... that would be a "cold" chisel, not a woodworking chisel, right?
Yes, a 'cold' chisel as used in a machine shop (double bevel edge). The edge of a wood working chisel (single bevel edge) would curl back in the first stroke itself or, if tempered well, neatly slice off bits off the bolt-head.
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Old 5th August 2010, 18:27   #264
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As promised, here's the pic of the nut that I've been talking about quite a while now.
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The issue started off with the pads jamming up the disc & inorder to free, I need to open this screw which I couldn't. Hence I used the other nut to free from locking up, which is a great disaster. Yes I'm riding little dangerous now that my brakes aren't sharp & worst than drum brakes
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Old 5th August 2010, 18:29   #265
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Got my WD40 in a shop in Parry's. Was just driving past, saw it, stopped and rushed in!

Many of the things I searched hard for five years ago are easy to find now: I saw an poster for WD40 on the wall of a small hardware store in Thiruvanmiyur recently.

I've seen people "neatly slice off" bolt heads with a cold chisel and a club hammer. We were dismantling store-room shelving at the time: they had the knack, I had to work longer and harder at my bolts! Why they were all seized up I have no idea, and it was thirty-plus years ago now.
Quote:
As promised, here's the pic of the nut that I've been talking about quite a while now.
I was imagining a flush hex socket bolt, with no head you could get to. Can't you get a wrench on this?

Stilson wrench. Plumbers use them on pipes, will grip hard on something even completely round

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Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 5th August 2010 at 18:36.
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Old 5th August 2010, 19:52   #266
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
... here's the pic of the nut ...
Oh-oh! No, though the plumber's / Stilson wrench is a good option, the head may not go completely around the bolt-head. Better would be if you have locking pliers. But ...

1. This definitely requires a couple of spritzes of WD-40. Spray, let it soak, repeat a few times. Don't worry about the spray reaching the pad - just put some cotton waste around the bolt head
2. For the 1st bolt (the one on the left), one should use a ring spanner, not an open ended one, of the right size
3. How do you know the 2nd bolt (the rounded one) is CW and not CCW?
4. After the WD40 spraying, I think you could tap the bolt with a hammer (axially, carefully, not too hard) on the head to free up threads a bit

PS: Do look up a disk brake service manual to be sure you are doing the right things

@thad, the major reason why old bolts and nuts freeze up is gradual (chemical) migration of metal molecules across the mating boundary, creating a weak bond. This happens even if grease or paint is applied to prevent rusting. Didn't believe it myself till someone showed me a micrograph of a piece cut in half.

Last edited by DerAlte : 5th August 2010 at 19:54.
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Old 5th August 2010, 19:59   #267
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Sounds like you are an engineer!

I wondered about getting the wrench in that corner. Worth a try though, if other tools don't work. Ring spanners always better, yes --- a socket even better than that, although probably wouldn't fit over this nut.

Maybe leave the WD40 to soak in overnight?
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Old 5th August 2010, 21:13   #268
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Here're my replies...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad_E_Ginathom
Stilson wrench. Plumbers use them on pipes, will grip hard on something even completely round
I started off with 8mm wrench, moved to plier & finally got into this rounded stage. I even took it to local garage & they used up this locking plier without any success. So using anything more will shave off the metal more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte
Better would be if you have locking pliers
I tried this even at a mech workshop using locking pliers, but they couldn't & they gave up since they were afraid if they might break up

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte
his definitely requires a couple of spritzes of WD-40. Spray, let it soak, repeat a few times. Don't worry about the spray reaching the pad - just put some cotton waste around the bolt head
Yes sir, will follow this; I'll try this weekend & post my update. Thanks for the suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte
How do you know the 2nd bolt (the rounded one) is CW and not CCW?
You mean clockwise & counter clock wise? Err...good point, but sorry sir, you could be right; all the while I've been using the standard CCW method to remove it. Any means to find this?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte
Do look up a disk brake service manual to be sure you are doing the right things
Even the Indian disc brake manufacturers do not provide this info, this is an imported one , basically from RX115, so I don't have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte
the major reason...micrograph of a piece cut in half
That was fantastic & wonderful piece of information. Thanks a Trillion. I was always wondering why this keeps happening. Infact, during my rebuild, I applied oil to every nut & bolt thinking it would be lot easier to open; I was also thinking of opening up the entire motorcycle once in a while to prevent from this issue; how stupid I'm isn't it? Now I know that all I've to spray is WD40 once in a while instead. Thanks a lot for the tip.

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Originally Posted by Thad_E_Ginathom
Sounds like you are an engineer
Yes, he is an expert in software for automotive applications

Edit - The point on metal forming a weak bond provokes me to ask a question. Hope you don't consider too much of OT. Why this wasn't formed with the other nut through which I pumped out the oil to free the pads? Why only on few bolt & nut?

Last edited by aargee : 5th August 2010 at 21:15.
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Old 5th August 2010, 21:42   #269
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hello Aargee, I have used following methods for similar situations.

1) when a hex head of a bolt gets rounded/ slipped I have tried a small griender/file to Reshape the hex head to a 1 undersize. This can be done only if there is enough space.

2) Try forcing an Undersize socket ( for example a 19 socket over a 20 original size) over the slipped nut/bolt head. This needs to be done very slowly & using caution as small sized nuts/bolts get dammeged easily

3) use a stud remover ( here for the bleed skrew on the right )

4) remove or cut the head of the pipe benjo bolt ( by grinder / hacksaw) thus the pipe will be freed & remaining portion can be taken out by a stud remover.

Tapping the head of the stuck bolt with a light hammer is a good idea as Suggested in the earlier posts. it works many times .

Also if situations permit try heating such parts .

yours Sudarshan
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Old 6th August 2010, 05:34   #270
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Hi Sudarshan, I value your suggestions.
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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
1. when a hex head of a bolt gets rounded/ slipped I have tried a small griender/file to Reshape the hex head to a 1 undersize. This can be done only if there is enough space.

2) Try forcing an Undersize socket ( for example a 19 socket over a 20 original size) over the slipped nut/bolt head. This needs to be done very slowly & using caution as small sized nuts/bolts get dammeged easily

4) remove or cut the head of the pipe benjo bolt ( by grinder / hacksaw) thus the pipe will be freed & remaining portion can be taken out by a stud remover.
Pls see the pic above on the disc setup, the disc brake setup is an imported one. If I loose or damage this bolt, I'll be made to run much beyond pillars & post & probably loosing the entire setup. I can buy a new Indian make, but the issue is there're 100's of juggads to be done & hence want to restrict to the same one, atleast for now.

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
3) use a stud remover ( here for the bleed skrew on the right )
Bolt studder? You mean this one?

That's very interesting, Thanks for the education.

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Tapping the head of the stuck bolt with a light hammer is a good idea as Suggested in the earlier posts. it works many times.
Right, but the point is, I should know where to tap; the fact is I don't know

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Also if situations permit try heating such parts.
Sorry, I'm afraid

I'll try for WD40 here in Chennai at GP road

PS - I'll remove the entire disc assembly & then apply WD40

Last edited by aargee : 6th August 2010 at 05:43.
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