Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff > DIY - Do it yourself


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th January 2006, 17:38   #16
BHPian
 
rdkarthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 206
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik
If you look at the new generation aftermarket engine management systems, they have a self tuning feature which sets up the ignition and fuelling based on afr .
Correction.... The aftermarket stuff currently supports self tune of fuel only. Sorry about the goof up though .
rdkarthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2006, 21:35   #17
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik
There are more to ECUs than just fuel and ignition maps although they are the primary values. Some ECUs go into retard when it sees an engine going lean, thus preventing chances of detonation. If you look at the new generation aftermarket engine management systems, they have a self tuning feature which sets up the ignition and fuelling based on afr. This again is just a base map to get you going.
If you take for example the latest santro's 32-bit ecu, it does not have primary fuel or ignition tables. Instead it has a set of formulae which are worked upton real time to get fuel and ignition values.
Since you work on ECUs, I'm sure you know your stuff. But I found is that every manufacturer has their own way of setting up their algorithms. Some companies just buy the hardware and software from either a Siemens or a Bosch Motoronic and simply calibrate for each car. Any idea who uses what controller in India.

Indeed I'm surprised Santro dosent use lookup tables. It takes a lot of computing power to calculate these values real time, but what is the benefit? A better option is to use an actual air-flow meter rather than rely on TPS signal. That will give you much better control over AFR.

Last edited by Mpower : 20th January 2006 at 21:36.
Mpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2006, 23:27   #18
BHPian
 
chetanhanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 886
Thanked: 42 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jat


Are they readily available in India? Also the prices are equivalent i.e. almost same or skyhigh.


When changing parameters for power, we have to keep an eye on the exhaust also. The emission should not go beyond the limits.

If you adjust for efficiency (at the cost of power), then the effect is quite good.

RK



I dont know if they are readily avlaible in India..Im in US so I had found out the price in US from dealers + ebay
regarding the point you mentioned abt efficency- Im not planning on a fuel efficient car.. (Ill get a Maruti800 If I want mileage) .. just want power
chetanhanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2006, 23:41   #19
jat
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SINGAPORE
Posts: 265
Thanked: 3 Times
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by chetanhanda
I dont know if they are readily avlaible in India..Im in US so I had found out the price in US from dealers + ebay
regarding the point you mentioned abt efficency- Im not planning on a fuel efficient car.. (Ill get a Maruti800 If I want mileage) .. just want power [/left]
I mentioned about fuel efficeincy as many people do special runs for efficiency. For power it is easier to adjust the turbocharged engines than naturally aspirated, as turbo one automatically tends to balance the air flow for extra fuel you are going to pump in the engine. For NA, the air flow remains more or less same if air intake parts are not modified. Hence adding extra fuel does not increase the power the way it does for turbo-charged engine.

RK
jat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2006, 23:42   #20
BHPian
 
chetanhanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 886
Thanked: 42 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik
There are more to ECUs than just fuel and ignition maps although they are the primary values. Some ECUs go into retard when it sees an engine going lean, thus preventing chances of detonation. If you look at the new generation aftermarket engine management systems, they have a self tuning feature which sets up the ignition and fuelling based on afr. This again is just a base map to get you going.
If you take for example the latest santro's 32-bit ecu, it does not have primary fuel or ignition tables. Instead it has a set of formulae which are worked upton real time to get fuel and ignition values. Afr is one of the main parameters.
In fact we are currently working on systems that can suport these features.
Ok, cool that you work on ECU's ..thats a very interesting job !!
as you have mentioned hyundai does real time calculations.. but what about the ECU found on the lancer 4G15 ? this thread was started considering the lancer and baleno but seems lancer has more tech info readily available.
can you give us some more info abt the lancer ECU and do the mentioned mods affect it ?
chetanhanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 00:23   #21
BHPian
 
chetanhanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 886
Thanked: 42 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways
if you want to fool around with afr then the cheapest thing I can think of is a fuel pressure regulator as Mpower mentioned. You will also find the Apexi SAFC pretty useful. And you defineately have to have a wide band O2.

I didn't know they costed as little as $300. I spent more on mine. The total package shud work to 600 maybe 700
The complete kits from NGK, Innovate etc cost as much as you have mentioned ..
[1] Some second hand cost around 300$
[2] there are some kits avalaible where they just give you the circuit+ chips .. you need to solder them together and then you buy a new sensor seprately.
[3] regarding Apexi SAFC II, it will be usefull only If I have a wide band controller.
(Hey sideways . I read abt your lancer earlier .. I definately like your engine !! but I wouldn't want to spend more than 1.5 lakh excluding car .. I dont have a big budget)
chetanhanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 09:08   #22
BHPian
 
rdkarthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 206
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
Indeed I'm surprised Santro dosent use lookup tables. It takes a lot of computing power to calculate these values real time, but what is the benefit? A better option is to use an actual air-flow meter rather than rely on TPS signal. That will give you much better control over AFR.

Most cars in india today work on the speed density system, where the primary factor is engine load (Manifold Air Pressure). TPS is more like secondary factor.

When it is required to emit as little pollutants as possible, not compromising economy or performance, i guess the real-time ecu are felt needed although 32-bit ecus with look-ups can do the job too. Another advantage, the cars can come attached with an "intellegent" tag ...
rdkarthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 09:49   #23
BHPian
 
rdkarthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 206
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chetanhanda


as you have mentioned hyundai does real time calculations.. but what about the ECU found on the lancer 4G15 ? this thread was started considering the lancer and baleno but seems lancer has more tech info readily available.
can you give us some more info abt the lancer ECU and do the mentioned mods affect it ?



The stock 4G15 ecu is very mild. Just by playing around with fuel (using our custom ecu), we could reduce the 0-100 kmph time by almost a second on a stock engine with stock filter and exhaust... A good ignition remap can better it still...


The AFC you talk about just modifies the MAP signals.Increasing the MAP signal values will increase fuel to engine. Makes sense when you are less than full throttle. But consider this - At full throttle, the ECU sees max load. You cannot increase the fuelling on WOT unless the MAP sensor can read a posivtive pressure i.e.boost . Unfortunately the indian lancers cannot read past atmospheric pressure.. Hope you get the idea..... If the piggyback had independent control over the injectors, its a different story.....
So i would keep the $1000 to myself .



One more thing,the 4G15 ecu has a very good self-check feature that is hard to fool around with. Pull out one injector clip and the check light comes on. Not the case with other cars.


Then again, I may be wrong .... please feel free to chip in

Last edited by rdkarthik : 21st January 2006 at 09:55.
rdkarthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1000 BHP S-Class from Mansory, a German tuning firm D C The International Automotive Scene 0 11th December 2014 02:57
DIY - Structured Cabling for in-car Gadgets kamal.sn DIY - Do it yourself 10 1st September 2014 20:31
ECU tuning for 320d the_stranger Modifications & Accessories 7 17th April 2009 10:14
ECU Tuning - Palio MJD Ice Modifications & Accessories 19 17th December 2008 11:05


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:44.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks