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Old 16th February 2018, 18:44   #61
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

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Originally Posted by shajufx View Post
1. Suppose I failed to avoid him, its a head on, what's next ?
Visit the police station with the dash-cam footage, after attending any injuries to anyone, calling the ambulance, etc.

Quote:
2. We are on our track, but how does it help in the real situation ?
Cannot get what you are meaning here.
Quote:
3. Whom to call (if airbags protect us to that point) ?
Ambulance (108), Police (100), Friends and Family?

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4. What measures to be done ?
Need advice after accident (Need advice after Accident)

What to do in case of accident (What to do in case of an accident)
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Old 16th February 2018, 19:40   #62
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

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Originally Posted by chaudh2s View Post
These are unwritten rules, and following them would ensure higher chances of survival.
These are unwritten rules only in India. But if you take driving test abroad, one would actually learn this before ever getting a driver's license.

A learner's permit test question in Australia.

A driver's prep training site for US:
Quote:
  • Quickly slow your vehicle by easing off the gas and press the brake pedal.
  • Flash your headlights and blast the horn as a warning.
  • Steer to the right of the oncoming vehicle. [US is a right side driving country]
  • Try to steer into any available clear area, like a shoulder.
  • Drive off the road if necessary. Hitting the ditch is better than hitting the other vehicle.
As I said before, this is not about 20:20 hindsight analysis after a very unique incident. Scientific driver training (which doesn't exist in India) in all advanced countries cover this situation, and include it in their driving manual.

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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Think you would have done it better/differently because you have proof of your own experience? Great. Please share the video along with the details. I'll hit thanks and say some even nicer words.
Why should we tell you by firsthand experience, when the best option for this situation is already documented as part of most driver training manuals? Why is this even a matter of debate?

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Originally Posted by chaudh2s View Post
If you know in your head what is correct and what is not for a given situation, there is a high chance that you will take a correct decision when the need to implement that decision comes, because that line of thought now goes into your subroutine and becomes your habit.
Exactly. Since India doesn't have this kind of driver training, people just go by instinct and start rationalizing their decision. What to do in every traffic situation becomes a debate, when the safest procedures are well documented in driver training manuals around the world.
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Old 16th February 2018, 20:03   #63
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
These are unwritten rules only in India. But if you take driving test abroad, one would actually learn this before ever getting a driver's license.

A learner's permit test question in Australia.

A driver's prep training site for US:

I had to stay as farthest as possible from all objects, to best safeguard myself, family and the rest involved, root cause being the unpredictable errant driver on the LCV.

I would take all armchair experts here lightly, trying to postmortem and criticize.


Quote:
Try to steer into any available clear area, like a shoulder.
Drive off the road if necessary. Hitting the ditch is better than hitting the other vehicle.
Isn't this exactly what I did?

Steer into any available clear area and avoid vehicles?

Quote:
Why should we tell you by firsthand experience, when the best option for this situation is already documented as part of most driver training manuals? Why is this even a matter of debate?
Any guesses as to how this 'debate' started? Based on the minority opinions here. Documented, yes, but what relevance does it have for India or specific to my incident on the road?

It is also well documented that road users need to stick to their own side of the carriageway when driving, but that didn't happen and that is what triggered my deviation too.

Since you personally seem to value rules very much, do you religiously stick to all mentioned speed limits on Indian roads?

Last edited by DRIV3R : 16th February 2018 at 20:11. Reason: Added a point
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Old 16th February 2018, 20:41   #64
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

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Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
I would take all armchair experts here lightly, trying to postmortem and criticize.
If you were the first person in the whole world to encounter a possible head-on-collision, then you would be right in calling everybody else armchair experts. However, I have a strong suspicion that the driver manuals mentioning the SOP for this case were written well before your incidence.

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Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
Isn't this exactly what I did?

Steer into any available clear area and avoid vehicles?
No, did you notice the step mentioned just above that? Steer to the right of the oncoming vehicle. (Left in case of India)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
It is also well documented that road users need to stick to their own side of the carriageway when driving, but that didn't happen and that is what triggered my deviation too.
It is also well documented as to what to do when the oncoming vehicles come into your lane. These are not laws, but safe driving practices.

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Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
Since you personally seem to value rules very much, do you religiously stick to all mentioned speed limits on Indian roads?
The action in question is not a rule. Whether your action was safe or unsafe, that is the point of the debate. Yes, I am generally a safety focused driver, see my post from 2014.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Actually, I do try to follow the US driving rules [adapted to left side driving] as much as possible. Whenever I break them out of sheer necessity, I become very conscious and feel like an idiot. I still can't drive on the wrong side, park in front of a gate, park near a corner or curve, park in a way that obstructs traffic, flash lights to pass via wrong lane, hazard lights in rain, overtake on a blind curve, cut another vehicle.... in general I can't drive or park dangerously on purpose because the lessons are drilled into my head. I feel stupid when I break them. So I rarely break them. Have to say it has made me lot safer on these roads full of ignorant and discourteous drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
Any guesses as to how this 'debate' started? Based on the minority opinions here. Documented, yes, but what relevance does it have for India or specific to my incident on the road?
Are the laws of physics different for India? You are justifying your action despite it being against the advice of experts all around the world. You probably feel you have discovered a technique that is contrary to all expert opinion around the world. But I am not convinced, that is all.
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Old 16th February 2018, 21:12   #65
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
These are unwritten rules only in India. But if you take driving test abroad, one would actually learn this before ever getting a driver's license.

A learner's permit test question in Australia.

A driver's prep training site for US:



Exactly. Since India doesn't have this kind of driver training, people just go by instinct and start rationalizing their decision. What to do in every traffic situation becomes a debate, when the safest procedures are well documented in driver training manuals around the world.
Thank you Samurai for going into this detail, finding out the driving test questions from abroad. They are really detailed, and much research must have gone into it. Wish the Indian driving license tests were these comprehensive. No wonder then, we have such high road fatalities rate in India.

The moment i saw the OP video i was , this guy is going to get someone killed.

I have no disregard for anyone, nor am i writing to show somebody down, its just that (as samurai said) am not convinced of that behavior and people should know what is wrong and what is right.

Last edited by navin : 17th February 2018 at 11:16. Reason: Thread title was not OP's
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Old 16th February 2018, 21:54   #66
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Guys, give this man some credit.

You can quote all the text books and training lessons from all the countries sitting in a chair and typing on a keyboard. But remember this man was there on the spot, and in such a situation all that works is the reflex which has evolved over millions of years. This reflex does not care about your text book situation. It just analyzes all the options presented and follows the path that is least risky to one's own life first, followed by others.

Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver-moron-dost.jpg

The OP's brain had three options - Go straight towards sure death (of course we can sit and analyze what if the van had gone back, but remember you are watching a video, but the brain had real time visual and audio input), go left and risk the lives of the two wheelers and also of self as there was a tree ahead, or go right which had a very clear view with an empty road once the dost came fully into the OP's lane (remember, the brain needs just a few milliseconds to process this information). It would naturally choose the third option and send commands to all the muscles of the body - hand to steer the car to right, foot to floor the accelerator pedal. And that is exactly what happened. Hats off to OP for his superb reflexes.

I say this again, OP's brain did not have enough time to search what is being taught in countries around the world, nor did it have time to go and get trained on all evasive maneuvers. It just responded to that situation in the way human beings have been programmed to respond to such situations through evolution.

I have no intention to get into any argument on this with anybody. I think it is not fair to sit and criticize (of course, this being an open forum you do have the right to criticize though). Just my 2 cents! Peace out!

PS: A good article on reflexes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebit...stemrev3.shtml

Note the text "But sometimes a very quick response is needed, one that does not need the involvement of the brain. This is a reflex action. Reflex actions are rapid and happen without us thinking..."

PPS: Please do not correct me for having mentioned brain had those options, whereas reflex actually bypasses brain

Last edited by graaja : 16th February 2018 at 22:16.
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Old 16th February 2018, 22:28   #67
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Congratulations Driver on getting out of this without a scratch

I can't seem to fathom why some of you think that he should have to the left? The first reflex action is to avoid the first imminent collision and not think 'What if there is a vehicle coming behind the Dost?'

If Driver would have found another vehicle which was coming in the right lane in the direction opposite to him, he would have gone to the extreme right of the road and avoided it like you guys are advising him to have gone to the extreme left in the first place, Yes its against human nature to do that but his first reflex action was against human nature too so if he managed that the second one would have been a continuation of that I feel
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Old 16th February 2018, 23:04   #68
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Adding my 3 db noise to this thread:

If it has been a Maruti, Hyundai or Tata, I would have swerved left and aimed for the ditch/tree.

If it has been a fiat, ford or VW I would do exactly what OP had done.
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Old 16th February 2018, 23:32   #69
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Don't wish to offend anyone, but OP didn't have an hour to google to what has to be done or watch youtube tutorials expecting him to follow lane rules while his life is being put at risk in just not going to happen, he did what his reflex told him to.

We usually need more emergency situation experience to know what has to be done, I am sure OP studied the footage and learnt few things and will avoid doing this when it happens next time.

Talking about what has already happened isn't going to change anything, let's lean something and move forward.

For people who are watching this and thinking if it were you, you would have had collision and had terrible fate, please do note brain works a lot better when you are at the situation in alert state, so no need to panic and fall into spiral of negative thoughts.
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Old 17th February 2018, 00:21   #70
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
Guys, give this man some credit.
I did give him credit. I did congratulate him on surviving a very dangerous evasive action. How about you giving me some credit for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
You can quote all the text books and training lessons from all the countries sitting in a chair and typing on a keyboard.
No, it was part of my NJ driving permit test 25 years ago. I have used it few times too. It may not be this dramatic or on captured on video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
But remember this man was there on the spot, and in such a situation all that works is the reflex which has evolved over millions of years. This reflex does not care about your text book situation. It just analyzes all the options presented and follows the path that is least risky to one's own life first, followed by others.
You are describing it as if he caught a speeding bullet. He took a very risky evasive action and live to talk about it, and he has it on video. What if the mini-truck driver corrected himself without noticing the OP and had gotten back on lane? Then OP would be on the wrong side facing the mini-truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
Don't wish to offend anyone, but OP didn't have an hour to google to what has to be done or watch youtube tutorials expecting him to follow lane rules while his life is being put at risk in just not going to happen, he did what his reflex told him to.
This is a typical assumption from people who are unaware of defensive driving. Once you are trained to drive defensively, it becomes second nature. I learned to drive defensively after living in US for few years, so I don't need to google safe driving practices. I had to google and provide links for people like you, who think I am presenting a my personal point of view on the subject. Sorry, defensive driving is a well established concept. You are obviously unfamiliar with it, so google for it yourself, since you don't want me to google it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I can't seem to fathom why some of you think that he should have to the left? The first reflex action is to avoid the first imminent collision and not think 'What if there is a vehicle coming behind the Dost?'
Human instinct is often wrong when it comes to emergency situation. It requires training to overcome it. That is why all advance countries have driver manuals to teach you the safe techniques. But Indian RTOs simply don't care about driver education. Which results in debates like this where otherwise wellknown SOPs are debated.

Last edited by Samurai : 17th February 2018 at 00:37. Reason: typo
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Old 17th February 2018, 00:36   #71
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
What if the mini-truck driver corrected himself without noticing the OP and had gotten back on lane? Then OP would be on the wrong side facing the mini-trunk.
What IF the OP had gone to the end of the left lane and the mini truck driver thought that the OP would come on straight and he too went the end of the left lane. Both would have had a head-on collision. There may have been many possibilities if we use the word IF. Yes I do agree that the safety guidelines on driving help but what matters is the presence of mind in milliseconds. What he did was the best possible maneuver under those circumstances as pointed out by graaja.

Last edited by GT3 : 17th February 2018 at 00:38.
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Old 17th February 2018, 00:41   #72
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I did give him credit. I did congratulate him on surviving a very dangerous evasive action. How about you giving me some credit for that?
What was dangerous? The minivan darting into my lane and dilly dallying or my evasive action? If my evasive action was dangerous, how and for who was the danger?

Quote:
You are describing it as if he caught a speeding bullet.
Talk about dramatising things.

Quote:
He took a very risky evasive action and live to talk about it, and he has it on video.
Risky for who? Who did I put at risk?


Quote:
This is a typical assumption from people who are unaware of defensive driving.
Blindly flaunting the rule book is not always defensive driving. Defense is avoiding danger. I was farthest from all obstacles only on my right most. Period.

SOP - Standard Operating Procedure, applies to normal scenarios. How does a mini van going out of control at good speeds approaching you so close fall under SOP?

Moderator Note: Please maintain a respectful tone at all times while posting on the forum. Sarcasm is NOT appreciated especially when a fellow member is making a valid point about safety. Your comment has been edited

Last edited by noopster : 17th February 2018 at 16:50. Reason: Refer mod note inline
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Old 17th February 2018, 03:38   #73
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Quote:
You are describing it as if he caught a speeding bullet. He took a very risky evasive action and live to talk about it, and he has it on video. What if the mini-truck driver corrected himself without noticing the OP and had gotten back on lane? Then OP would be on the wrong side facing the mini-truck.

Gents, Gents, lets keep in mind that we’re debating what-might-have-been scenarios. Analysis is certainly a healthy exercise for all of us - but lets do it in the spirit of enquiry and not descend to a position where learning stops and one-upmanship begins.
Our friend DRIV3R has, by his actions avoided grievous injury to himself and other motorists. Manuals and training procedures may give you detailed procedures on what to do in situations such as this and is no doubt drawn from years of shared experiences of drivers. While it is of significance in most situations there is nothing to say that safe driving practices cannot be improved upon or updated according to the unique situations that arise every minute in a world that is steadily being filled with automobiles. While it is true that the same set of actions may have had unpleasant results in other circumstances, thinking out of the box and against the rules did help this particular case as is evident from the video.
I agree with your point Samurai that this could have been a dangerous manoeuvre. True, it could have been. I also agree with your point that human reflex action can often go wrong in emergencies and needs training to overcome as is evident in the case of tyre bursts where people brake hard instead of steadily accelerating. It is counter intuitive.
That being said, DRIV3R did make the choice that turned out safe for everyone around. No one was hurt in this potentially high risk situation.
If he had swerved left - with its inherent risks of Bikers, tree, stones concealed in the grass etc. - would the outcome have been any different?
I’m afraid we will never know.

Last edited by noopster : 17th February 2018 at 16:51. Reason: Thanks- removing parts of quoted post that have been deleted
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Old 17th February 2018, 05:42   #74
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Think you would have done it better/differently because you have proof of your own experience? Great. Please share the video along with the details. I'll hit thanks and say some even nicer words.

But if you only have armchair criticism then it seems unfair to me. It's so freaking difficult to not panic in such a situation, let alone handling it like how the OP has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post

Why should we tell you by firsthand experience, when the best option for this situation is already documented as part of most driver training manuals? Why is this even a matter of debate?
Can I presume your answer is no to my question?

Regarding why should you tell? Simple. It gives strength to your arguments. I give more value to people who lived to tell their actual life experiences. For example, I value your posts when you talk about running a business in India.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
These are unwritten rules only in India. But if you take driving test abroad, one would actually learn this before ever getting a driver's license.

A learner's permit test question in Australia.

A driver's prep training site for US:
I have an Indian and Australian license. The question you posted wasn't part of my training material or license test in Australia. Please don't give the impression to others that every driver in Australia or The USA would have learned what you quoted.

And there's little relevance of quoting training/safe driving procedures from The USA and Australia in this particular case. It'll be a miracle if all drivers in the video have a valid driving license.


Would it make all happy if the following disclaimer is included in the OP?

The actions displayed in the video are performed by mostly normal Indian drivers under un-standard and random conditions. These actions should not be attempted under standard test conditions by professional drivers. Please refer to international safe driving procedure manuals available online to learn the right procedures. Drive Responsibly.
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Old 17th February 2018, 07:05   #75
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

getting a little uneutral here, if not actually warmed up!

All this talk about driving theory and text books is a nonsense when the guy is there and it is happening to him: a head on collision moments away. In my not so humble opinion, the "rule," written or not, is... if there is road space, head for it. That is what DRIV3ER did, and the outcome was a success.

Driving off the road could lead to skidding, rolling, just some other sort of accident.

The analysis has gone past reasonable discussion of possibilities, almost to a feeling, even if nobody has spelt it out, that the whole thing was DRIV3R's fault in the first place! OK, that is ridiculous, and everybody will say, "I never said that," but that is where it is heading.

There was no time to think. DRIV3R headed for empty road and kept control of his car. Everybody is still alive. Only one verdict: Success!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Would it make all happy if the following disclaimer is included in the OP?

The actions displayed in the video are performed by mostly normal Indian drivers under un-standard and random conditions. These actions should not be attempted under standard test conditions by professional drivers. Please refer to international safe driving procedure manuals available online to learn the right procedures. Drive Responsibly.
No It would not make me happy at all. And the responsible message needs to go to the other guy.

The actions in this video are performed by an ordinary, but skilled, driver. Wherever in the world you are, try to follow the rules, but staying alive is more important.

Those who have ever been to sea, in a vessel of any size, will be familiar with the relevant set of rules for collision avoidance, and who, in various circumstances, should give way to whom. The rules of the sea, though, are summed up by saying that, in the end, it is the responsibility of both masters to avoid collision.

And, within the limits of acceptible forum behaviour, I am not much fussed if I do offend! I'd rather be blunt.

In my limited experience (just two countries) of international driving... For all its superior training, manuals, testing, licensing and enforcement, I strongly suggest that if DRIV3R had been a Brit on British roads, he would have done exactly the same thing as he did. Although, it is entirely possible that my keep-left conditioning, if I had not had the mental flexibility to escape it, would have killed me.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 17th February 2018 at 07:25.
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