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Old 18th February 2018, 17:34   #121
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Yes I think this is a good idea. Clearly OP is not in the mood to listen, let alone acknowledge that he may have been wrong and learn from his experience.

For those reading this thread and sitting on the fence: if you are in a similar situation for God’s sake, slow down and head as far left as you safely can. That is the only correct course of action in this situation.

I would have had much more respect for OP if he at least acknowledged that he could have handled the undoubtedly difficult situation differently. But since he insists on digging his heels in and insisting he was correct, nothing much to do here.
Believe me, you are sounding quite stubborn yourself, seen from the other side. Why do you want to browbeat someone into accepting your view of his action? Nor is he alone in his view. Are we here to talk, or to be judge, jury and executioner?

If you want to say that in most situations one should try to brake and move left, that it is a sound defensive driving technique - I am willing to accept it. But from there you want to assert that in all situations, and, therefore, in this particular situation too, that was the right thing to do, I refuse to accept. No manual can be written for all possible situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
How could the OP have known that there was no traffic behind the truck?
Go back to Samurai's stretched video and watch from 12 to 26, well before the two vehicles passed each other. At 12 the truck goes into the wrong lane. You can already see some empty road behind it. By the time we are at 26, you can see the opposite lane clearly into a distance. In real life the vision would have been clearer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post


But it is clear that OP can't really see behind the mini-truck when he started the turn.
OP started moving to his right, only after the van had started veering into the wrong lane. So the space clears for him to see behind. Your video 12 to 26.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post

Whole crux of this discussion is what happened at 00:12 position. OP couldn't see the traffic behind the mini-truck. But he could see a long stretch of shoulder on the left side.
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post

Those who practice defensive driving would have automatically taken the left side along with emergency braking and lots of honking, hoping that the mini-truck would correct himself in time. But OP was not handicapped with such training,
It is possible to have the training and still respond according to the merit of the situation. But sometimes drivers who have never heard of 'defensive driving' may surprise you with their skill.

And, as to "hoping that the mini-truck would correct himself in time", well what kind of defensive driving is based on hope that others would react in a particular way. It is a basic principle of defensive driving that you anticipate the worst.

Last edited by moralfibre : 19th February 2018 at 10:13. Reason: Removing video from quoted post.
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Old 18th February 2018, 17:45   #122
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Just wanted to chip in with a clarification. Off-topic, but needed:

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
When I questioned about the "hot threads" and I got no answer here but the missing topic reappeared all of a sudden.

Does it mean one mod found the topic to be hot and added to the list later someone found worthless to be there and removed it and then someone added it back?
Or the thread went from hot to hotter when someone is against the mods and later it came back to hot when someone got support from the rest?
Please be a bit more respectful & courteous when discussing Mod actions.

1. The thread was NOT removed from Hot Threads. It has remained on the hot threads list since I moved the posts out to create this independent thread.

Just FYI: If we add any new hot thread (or even disable & re-enable one), it goes straight to the no.1 position. Not the case here.

2. Mods moderate the forum, not the homepage; the 'hot threads' section is handled almost entirely by myself & Omkar.

Please ask for clarifications before making baseless accusations. It's not the way Team-BHP runs. Thanks for the support & understanding .
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Old 18th February 2018, 17:47   #123
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Putting myself in the shoes of the driver, this is what I would have done :

1) On such a 2 laned highway, I would be cruising at 80 kmph
2) I would have taken my foot off the accelerator a bit after seeing 'congestion' ahead (two bikes riding one next to another)
3) The errant Dost would have made me slam the brakes and press the horn loudly. And I would have steered to the left slowly while braking.

My mental calculation would be -> there is no risk of crashing into bikes or trees or skidding off the road. My car would have slowed down rapidly and would probably be doing 15 to 20 kmph by the time I hit the shoulder. After all, our cars take just 2.5 seconds to get from 80 kmph to dead stop.
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Old 18th February 2018, 18:01   #124
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

So, since we are talking a lot about theories here, lets imagine the truck kept coming towards you and as per the procedure defined in the rule book, "brake, look for space to left,honk and flash your lights" and the truck proceeds to hit you, what would happen?

As per the rule book - you would be correct.

But guess what, practically, you would be dead.

This is like the Tyson quote, "Everyone has a plan till you get punched in the face"
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Old 18th February 2018, 18:41   #125
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
This is my last direct response to you on this matter as you obviously have made up your mind to defend your position at all cost. However I will make this final point. Instead of trying to argue on technicalities, at least keep an open mind and review the suggestions provided to you based on the law and internationally accepted best practices that were developed after decades and decades of crash analysis. Just answer this one question: is there anything that could be learned from carefully reviewing the video and hearing suggestions from other learned members or you are convinced that your instant reflex action was simply perfection itself? Anyone watching this video can learn that the rule to keep left and never go on to wrong side yourself as the erring driver is likely to correct his /her mistake is a valid rule. That is exactly what happened in your own video. If I had to pick a video for driver education to underscore this very point, your video is a perfect example.



How could the OP have seen what was behind a large truck? There could have been another vehicle not visible behind it. Regardless, there is an internationally accepted rule and best driving practice that states what I am trying to argue here. If I had to prove my point, I would use this very video as an excellent example.
Apologies in advance for quoting the entire post.

The entire point the OP has been making, and the point that you and a few others have been refusing to accept is that the international best practices or the handbook of defensive driving or safe driving techniques on a road or the encyclopedia of correct maneuvers in a dangerous road situation or whatever other bodies of knowledge exist out there are NOT the law or the rule. By all means they prescribe the generally accepted safe driving principles. However it's the driver in a particular situation who must make the right choice of which move will help him get out of that situation unscathed.

The OP has never disputed the wisdom of the advice, however the people offering the advice seem hell bent to make the OP 'acxept' that his maneuver was wrong and the only reason they have to offer is that the maneuver wasn't part of any of the above bodies of knowledge.

Just to put things in perspective, these bodies of knowledge have been created in countries which have a fairly high amount of road awareness and manners, apart from vehicle fitness and safety frameworks - all of which is completely lacking in India. Therefore it's pointless to criticize the OP's move by citing the best practices followed elsewhere.

And where did you see a large truck? Since when did an AL Dost come to be classified as a large truck?

If you go back to the video and watch carefully, you might observe the empty road immediately after the mini truck is out of the field of view. It is your assumption that because you cannot see past it till it moves away, that the OP also failed to see past it. Perhaps the OP was looking at the road through the windshield and from the driver's seat and perhaps he had a bigger/ wider field of vision than the video clip allows us. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, i would assume the OP could see behind the mini truck and knew there was no vehicle following it for quite some distance. At least that's been my experience while driving on straight roads.


To put the concluding remarks from my side, and to reiterate what Mr. Thad has so aptly put through his father's words, I would choose being alive and sound and safe than being right and dead.

You know, I often wonder about a scenario where a vehicle is coming at me and I think if I were to hit it anyhow, meaning a collision was just unavoidable, wouldn't it be better to have the vehicle ram my car's left than right. Especially if I were alone in the car. And who knows, I might come out alive from an accident if I did that, as against risking a head on collision - my head, I mean.

Only if the AL Dost driver had gone through all those safety measures - then it would have been a balanced debate.

Last edited by honeybee : 18th February 2018 at 18:50.
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Old 18th February 2018, 18:54   #126
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
i would assume the OP could see behind the mini truck and knew there was no vehicle following it for quite some distance. At least that's been my experience while driving on straight roads.
+1 to that and a very good point. The angle of view of the camera is centered to the windshield, whereas the angle of view of the driver is offset to the right, and the driver would have actually seen the clear road a few tenths of a second before the camera captured. And if he had seen a clear road and still followed world best practices and had gone towards the two wheelers or the tree, that would have been an idiotic move. Aren't we allowed to pass vehicles when the road on the right is free? Then why does it become a bad practice to steer into an empty road to save oneself? I really don't see any logic here
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Old 18th February 2018, 18:59   #127
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I think the OP was the best judge of the situation. He is the one who was on the ground. What he did was perfectly fine in my opinion. Best practices are just that. Best practices. They are the collective wisdom of thousands of people so they appear to be the norm and generally work out correctly. Having said that, best practices also change with time.
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Old 18th February 2018, 19:10   #128
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

I dont know why this game of "firing the last salvo" is being played here. If somebody does not accept your view, move on. This thread is becoming childish. Like petulant children fighting im-right-you-are-wrong during the lunch break. Come on guys, lets not make TBHP like rediff comments section.

Mods, there is enough info and in depth analysis for any person viewing this thread to consider multiple viewpoints. I think its time to close.
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Old 18th February 2018, 19:20   #129
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravi Parwan View Post
To this day, I do not know how the other driver managed it, but he swerved back to the left and managed to avoid a head on with me. .
Like this


# From the video, it is not clear if the mini-truck driver dozed off or was under influence or he merely tried to scare the 2 wheeler riders.

# There is enough run off area on both ends.

# 0:30 to 0:36 seconds as depicted in Samurai's video, the mini-truck driver had started to veer back in his lane and that is when he noticed that there is no room there, so he continued in that lane.

There can be lots of scenarios -

# If the OP steered left, the truck driver might hit him, but what if the Punto went completely off the road and stopped there or gotten ahead of his trajectory?

# What if the Dost driver didn't notice the Punto in wrong lane and continued to steer in his 'right' lane?

I will say, the reflexes of both drivers were great. The Dost driver too played his part in not having an accident. In these kind of scenarios you have to make split second decisions, the OP chose this maneuver and he came out unscathed. But was this the only way out of this scenario? Could things have gone further worse?

We may continue to discuss till death if veering right was wrong.

I personally would have stopped and steered left as part of muscle memory [refrain from doing this when on hills with drops on your left].

The people siding with OP's move [nothing personal against anyone, please ] are calling people armchair analytics, all of us who drive in India come across situations like this or worse.

Please respect alternate views and suggestions and we can agree to disagree but without being stubborn about it.

I do not believe that going right for the OP was the only way out solution despite the fact that it worked.

DRIV3R - I know you casually shared a video and everyone is dissecting but believe me, it is for everyone's good. We all learn something good/positive by observing or by reading alternate views.

Alternative views are not bad, till you try pushing it down on someone's throat.

Quite a lot of us feel that going left was also a good probably a better/safer maneuver and we all can't be wrong, no?

Last edited by Sheel : 18th February 2018 at 19:42.
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Old 18th February 2018, 19:28   #130
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

When I saw the video before a separate thread was created the first question that came to my mind is why didn't he go left, the OP explained later in a post the dangers of doing so and I felt he was right.

We're watching a dash-cam footage most of which are mounted to the center of the windshield, however the driver seats further to the right and thus is able to 'see' better if there's any vehicle trailing the Dost than what the video shows us. I feel the OP deserves this benefit of doubt

If he'd braked hard and steered left, there was a danger of having a head-on collision with the Dost had the driver not corrected and also there was the danger of knocking down the Splendor (pillion wearing pinkish shirt) who himself had swerved to the left and had slowed down significantly as a natural reaction after the narrow escape. I know the Punto has excellent brakes, but can it come to a halt from approx 70km/h in under 2 secs ? I don't think so. Hitting a bike even at 20 km/h is enough to cause serious injuries to the rider and pillion considering none were wearing helmets.

Imagine the consequences then. A larger vehicle hits a smaller vehicle, even though you practiced defensive driving, you'd be tried in a Court of Law and charged with not maintaining safe distance, over speeding, reckless driving and what not. Good luck convincing the Judge you were practicing internationally accepted safe driving practices but despite your best efforts the accident occurred.

Hindsight is great, probably even genius but what matters is what happened to the OP in those few seconds and his reaction to it, while its acceptable to point out his errors and suggest alternative course of action we should not forget the OP was there and he survived.

Last edited by shashank.nk : 18th February 2018 at 19:31.
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Old 18th February 2018, 20:18   #131
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

I do agree with the minority here that the SOP would be brake, honk and proceed to left shoulder.

I also do not say OP is wrong. He did what he felt right at that moment and managed to evade. Thanks to Mini truck driver too. He managed to control the damn thing and avoid colliding with OP.

There is hardly any time to think here. From the video it is clear that OP had already made a decision to steer right. I am sure he was able to see the oncoming traffic and made his move. He was not expecting Mini truck to correct his lane. Finally nothing happened and nobody was harmed in this entire drama.

Let's stop arguing about OP is right or wrong. This is an emergency situation and people do panic.

The minority here were only pointing about the right procedure according to various standard protocols. They are not blaming OP. If the Mini truck couldn't control, things would have been different. OP would be at fault here legally and blamed. But this did not happen

Peace!

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 18th February 2018 at 20:24.
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Old 18th February 2018, 20:31   #132
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Firstly thank you DRIV3R for sharing the video. More than for/against comments on the evasive action he took, it opened up a good (mostly healthy) discussion on some good driving practices.

And it took me a bit on a flashback mode...

Late 90s - A teenager riding on a new Yezdi Roadking on a similar kind of road (2-lane, with paddy fields on both side). A multi-coloured limited stop bus at insane speed suddenly appeared on his lane - similar to how the pick-up truck came by in this case. The teenager moved to the extreme left, almost to the paddy field, the front wheel of the brand new motorbike was in mud. He hurled a stream Malayalam expletives at the (by then) disappeared bus, mostly because of the anger that his brand new bike got into thick mud. A car behind stopped and helped the guy to get the motorbike back on road. Except for a bit of dirt on the bike/jeans, it was all good luckily.

If the boy had moved to the right lane to avoid the bus, he wouldn't be alive today to recall this incident, considering that it was a fairly high-traffic 2-lane state highway. I would say that along with the reflexes, the luck factor really helped DRIV3R here. But in my experience, the probability of hitting the luck factor is a wee bit more if you just get yourself to the extreme left.

Once again, thanks for sharing and initiating this great discussion.
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Old 18th February 2018, 20:48   #133
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
1) The mini-truck would have continue to veer, overrun the bikers and then ram into OP. Then the mini-truck would have been found at fault.
with 50:50 probability you mean this is wise decision rather than escaping on the right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
No one knows with certainty what any other driver will do on the road.
That's exactly my point as well. When we are unsure about the course of action, we can't depend on the rule books and act of defensive driving. How good it was analysed earlier by experts across the globe before creating the rule books, the so called facts and assumptions vary case by case. IMO following the rule book (only by the OP) has higher risk than deviating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Clearly OP is not in the mood to listen, let alone acknowledge that he may have been wrong and learn from his experience.
Applies to others as well. I wish no one faces such a situation, but people blindly following the rule book will understand only when they fail because of the act of a similar moron.

People are not ready to listen and accept that defensive driving alone can't help at all instances. I don't mean to say what OP did is fool proof or will save at every instance, but definitely a better option for his case.
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Old 18th February 2018, 21:04   #134
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
People are not ready to listen and accept that defensive driving alone can't help at all instances. I don't mean to say what OP did is fool proof or will save at every instance, but definitely a better option for his case.

Do you dispute the point that the truck driver started a course correction back to his lane and then abandoned it because the OP was there.

If you don't, then this is what would have happened.

The OP sees the truck. Brakes hard and steers left. Honking and flashing lights.
The truck driver gets back into his lane.

Even in this instance, steering to the left would saved the OP.

I am NOT even suggesting that at the time of taking his right turn, he had even the faintest idea that the truck would try and return to its lane.

My point is that turning left in this instance is not any worse than turning right.


EDIT: Since its under the timelimit am adding this video here:

3 Mins onwards for this scenario.

Last edited by bblost : 18th February 2018 at 21:22.
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Old 18th February 2018, 21:23   #135
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Default Re: Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Please be a bit more respectful & courteous when discussing Mod actions.

1. The thread was NOT removed from Hot Threads. It has remained on the hot threads list since I moved the posts out to create this independent thread.

Just FYI: If we add any new hot thread (or even disable & re-enable one), it goes straight to the no.1 position. Not the case here.

Please ask for clarifications before making baseless accusations. It's not the way Team-BHP runs. Thanks for the support & understanding .
We do respect the mods action, but sorry to say my statement is not baseless. There must be people who acknowledged it at least after my comment. I could have posted this snapshot earlier but I thought I won't get such a situation.

Today's scenario
Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver-capture.jpg

Last night screenshot
Video: A mini-truck goes berserk & my evasive maneuver-img_5913.png

There is no point in proving myself & I don't mean to say someone did it intentionally, but the fact remains fact. Else people could have proven me wrong with a snapshot last night to show the presence of this thread in HOT THREADS section (which is not the case here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
Do you dispute the point that the truck driver started a course correction back to his lane and then abandoned it because the OP was there.
I do agree, but with the poor braking and dynamics of Dost either he could have rammed onto OP or toppled his truck (with a panic braking and emergency lane change) which is equally dangerous.

This is my point and I'm stopping here on this subject.
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