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Old 8th November 2009, 00:38   #1981
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TG - how on earth did you manage that shot
?
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Old 8th November 2009, 17:28   #1982
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Originally Posted by proton View Post
So far the best solution for video with film look (shallow DOF) is the Lumix gh1. An equivalent result can only be got with a 10K+ USD rig Sony EX!+Letus DOF adaptor.

Philip Bloom Blog Archive Panasonic Lumix GH1 first impressions and first footage


Was panning for a Lumix gf1 or LX3 or Canon s90, till I read this:
LX3's pocketability and ZS3's image quality? [Page 1]: Panasonic Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

And pulled the trigger on the Lumix tz7 yesterday! The deal breaker on the LX3 was the reviewerís opinion that manual adjustments on P&S are marketing gimmicks. Apparently, you never get to use Ďem. So s90 was also dropped from his shopping list, apart from also having serious CA error

Apparently, the 24-300 zoom performance on the tz7 cannot be equaled by even a DSLR zoom. We shall see.

This will replace my oly e300 + fujif11 as my street cam kit. My back will thank me for this.

PS Upside down pictures appear on the early DOF adaptors: you can jerry rig your own, if you can access a machine shop.

The Letus does a flip. It's all good.
Actually same result can be had with 5D mk2 and that too with just the cost of the DOF adapter.

Sony EX system only offer one thing over the other systems and its more flexibility and control. Otherwise its output is compareable to the likes of HDR-SR12.

DOF adapters don`t require machining tools, its pretty easy to make if you know what you are doing. Adding a prism reduces amount of light, while post processing doesn`t.

Buying a letus beats the purpose, since we are looking for cheap alternative, for the price of letus adapter, one can get a second hand 5d mk2, unless you are using it with EX or HVR series.

Not the dpreview comparison again. Its 2 different cameras for 2 different segments, pleasecan we for once go apples against apples.

Also remember, bigger the zoom, more compromises need to happen. One of the reasons most of the cameras come with 3x zoom.

Its quite simple to correct or flip the image, its just the fact that adding another lens/prism/element means light loss doesn`t matter what the companies say.

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Old 8th November 2009, 17:59   #1983
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I know about nikon 70-200mm f2.8, i got two

Canon has both 70-200mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f4,

And every single test proves that f4 is sharper than f2.8 and is lighter in weight too, almost half in weight.

Nikon doesn`t have an f4 availble YET. Infact nikon doesn`t have the f4 lineup at all to counter Canon f4 line.

Cheers
Could you please post any links on any of these tests? I would love to check them out.

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That was at Vallejo, California. This pic made it to National Geographic.com actually. Thanks for your remark.

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Old 8th November 2009, 21:56   #1984
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DOF adapters don`t require machining tools, its pretty easy to make if you know what you are doing. Adding a prism reduces amount of light, while post processing doesn`t.


These are the tubes you need to get machined:

Daniel's GG-Holders for 35mm DOF Adapters


Actually same result can be had with 5D mk2 and that too with just the cost of the DOF adapter.

Sony EX system only offer one thing over the other systems and its more flexibility and control. Otherwise its output is compareable to the likes of HDR-SR12.


Quote
When it comes to critical focus this is when things get difficult. With a shallow DOF focus is hyper critical and every cameras bar one has a sub par LCD for focusing. Only the EX1 and EX3 have usable LCD, the other cameras really all need external monitors.


Philip Bloom 35mm adaptors

Try getting follow focus on a 5dmk2 without an external monitor! The GH1 has autofocus in video mode: awesome! Face detection: even more awesome!


Buying a letus beats the purpose, since we are looking for cheap alternative, for the price of letus adapter, one can get a second hand 5d mk2, unless you are using it with EX or HVR series.

SonyEX1 rig 10k
5dmk2 rig 5000k
GH1 1500k with more capabilities.

Not the dpreview comparison again. Its 2 different cameras for 2 different segments, pleasecan we for once go apples against apples.

The LX3 only leads in low light capabilities. The tz7/zs3 has acceptable low light results.

Also remember, bigger the zoom, more compromises need to happen. One of the reasons most of the cameras come with 3x zoom.

24-300 mm sharp all the way.

Its quite simple to correct or flip the image, its just the fact that adding another lens/prism/element means light loss doesn`t matter what the companies say.

I agree.
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Old 9th November 2009, 07:05   #1985
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Originally Posted by Torqueguru View Post
Could you please post any links on any of these tests? I would love to check them out.
Here it is.

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Originally Posted by proton View Post
These are the tubes you need to get machined:

Daniel's GG-Holders for 35mm DOF Adapters
He`s only using normal MACRO TUBES, and eBay is full of them. And for GG holders, come on do you really need machining equipment to cut a circular piece from a plastic tray???

Also for that matter, Paraffin wax with microscopic slides as focusing screen, it will surely work but will stop fair bit of light. Making something remotely acceptable to canon focusing screen isn`t that easy, compared to focusing screen making a lens element is a kids play and you can check YouTube to see actual lens manufacturing done at canon.

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Originally Posted by proton View Post
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When it comes to critical focus this is when things get difficult. With a shallow DOF focus is hyper critical and every cameras bar one has a sub par LCD for focusing. Only the EX1 and EX3 have usable LCD, the other cameras really all need external monitors.
Here`s LCD specs from both manufacturers websites directly.

Sony EX1 - 3.5-inch* type colour LCD monitor, approx. 921000 effective pixels, 640 (H) x 3 (RGB) x 480 (V), 16:9, hybrid type
Canon 5Dmk2 - 3.0 " TFT LCD, 920,000 pixels, Automatic 3 level brightness adjustment plus 7 manual levels, 170 į viewing angle, Dual anti-reflection ('Clear View')

And there is a reason why external LCD`s are used, an external lcd can be the size of 5" to 50" plasma. And itís easier to focus and compose with bigger lcd than a 3.5" lcd. To be honest, i cannot remember last time i saw someone using built in lcd to focus and compose.

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Originally Posted by proton View Post
Try getting follow focus on a 5dmk2 without an external monitor! The GH1 has autofocus in video mode: awesome! Face detection: even more awesome!
When whole point of having video mode on a DSLR is to use its low light capabilities and being artistic, you are telling me you will rely on autofocus and that too which is Contrast Based.

I am not saying GH1 is a bad camera, quite opposite its very good but you are comparing contrast based AF to cam based and comparing full frame to 2x crop factor. By doing this you lost DOF advantage and fast AF performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by proton View Post
SonyEX1 rig 10k
5dmk2 rig 5000k
GH1 1500k with more capabilities.
I am talking about price of a SECOND HAND 5Dmk2 and LETUS 35 DOF ADAPTER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by proton View Post
The LX3 only leads in low light capabilities. The tz7/zs3 has acceptable low light results.
LX3
RAW
f2.0-2.8

ZS3
NO RAW
f3.3-6.3

Difference here is similar to PRIME vs KIT LENS; just compare your average 50mm f1.8 to a kit 18-200mm.

LX3 also has arguably more manual controls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by proton View Post
24-300 mm sharp all the way.
Sharpness is not the only factor when choosing a zoom and itís a fact that big zoom means COMPROMISES in other areas otherwise zooms are rarely compact, classic example Nikon 80-400mm vs Nikon 200-400mm or for the fact Nikon 1200-1700mm.

Cheers
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Old 9th November 2009, 11:28   #1986
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Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
I was offering these as an alternative to big bulky DSLR, since your requirement was noise free images.

Still awaiting for a canon alternative for Nikon 14-24mm G f2.8


Its called DOF adapter
.
1. My requirement will be a camera that can make nois efree images (JPG) on a PS3 and 46"-65" LCD TV. The camera must be pocketable, usable indoors and in low light and have a decent wide zoom (28mm - 4x is adequate). Recomendations?

2. dude there a many nikon lenses for which canon has no alternate and vice-versa.

3. Why do I need this DOF adapter. We have not found a need for this. We take vide. I convert video to DVD (using Ulead) and watch. Ideally I would love to be able to stuff my AVCHD SD card into the PS3 and watch but I dont know if the PS3 can recognise a AVCHD video.

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Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
And every single test proves that f4 is sharper than f2.8 and is lighter in weight too, almost half in weight.
why do you need 2 70-200/2.8 lenses?

the f/4 is sharper than the f/2.8 when both lenses are tested at f/4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by proton View Post
Was panning for a Lumix gf1 or LX3 or Canon s90, till I read this
And pulled the trigger on the Lumix tz7 yesterday!
So s90 was also dropped from his shopping list, apart from also having serious CA error

Apparently, the 24-300 zoom performance on the tz7 cannot be equaled by even a DSLR zoom. We shall see.
Not that the TZ7 or ZS3 are bad camera but I wonder if a 24-300 or 28-560 lens will be as fast or have as little distortion as a 24-60 or 28-100 lens respectively. You cant have 15x or 20x zoom without distortion at both ends of the zoom range. The other factor will be speed (in effect low light - indoor light capability) longer zoom ranges mean more glass elements. Each glass element added means loss of some light.
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Old 9th November 2009, 11:38   #1987
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I always used to wonder if canon would make an APS-C cam which would allow me to take 10-20 minute shots with manageable noise.
Well from the review 7D seems to be the answer.
A guy on dpreview took 30 minute shot of his roomba in pitch dark, and the results are impressive!
Guess when vitamin M is available, 7D will be a good upgrade.
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Old 9th November 2009, 11:45   #1988
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When whole point of having video mode on a DSLR is to use its low light capabilities and being artistic, you are telling me you will rely on autofocus and that too which is Contrast Based.

Correction.
The whole point of getting video mode on a dslr is to get easy and inexpensive and effective film look, ie shallow DOF. The GH1 beats all the other cameras because of its shortened flange to sensor distance (no mirror ) which allow a multitude of lenses to be used. Currently expensive lenses worth USD15000+ carried as spare on film locations are being mounted on GH1ís, serving as B cameras, test/set up cameras and general backup, replacing Arriflex equipment costing tens of thousands of dollars more. The 5dmak2 is crippled by having a problematic 30fps frame rate, making it difficult to interleave with normal footage.

Before this becomes too technical for people who have so far been interested but may drop out , please know that the GH1 is viable kit for people who want that beautiful DOF, and welcome the additional goodies that Panasonic developed for its consumer Camcorders: IS, autofocus (you need to hire a focus puller with pro rigs!), tilt LCD, face detection, manual shutter and aperture AND 50/50 fps. Take that small cam to a Cirque de Soleil performance, shoot at 50fps and crank it down to a slowmo framerate on your desktop and I guarantee youíll be a fan for life! All this at a consumer level cost of entry!

We can post on the dpreview thread if you want, because it would be beating a dead horse exercise here. All the relevant ground has already been covered at the link I provided. The LX3 has controls that canít be used given the small sensor size, even though itís marginally bigger than that of a normal PandS. You pay more for unused bells and whistles.

Thanks for a stimulating discussion!
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Old 9th November 2009, 11:55   #1989
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Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
I know about nikon 70-200mm f2.8, i got two

Canon has both 70-200mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f4,

And every single test proves that f4 is sharper than f2.8 and is lighter in weight too, almost half in weight.

Nikon doesn`t have an f4 availble YET. Infact nikon doesn`t have the f4 lineup at all to counter Canon f4 line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
Personally i really don`t care for the market itself since Canon/Nikon hardly make any money of 1D series or Dx series in nikon`s case.
The only real advantage of the F4 lenses is that they are relatively cheaper and maybe slightly smaller than 2.8 lenses. Everthing that a F4 can do, the 2.8 can surely do but thats not true vice versa. Even though the 70-200 F4 is sharper wide open, a good sample of a 2.8 lens will be stopped down by F4 and will be better than the constant F4 lens. The Nikon 70-200 is literally singing from F4 onwards. Nikon has many non constant zooms like the 70-300 VR, 16-85 VR which though not a constant F4 are optically as good as the canon equivalent F4 lenses and are smaller, lighter and cheaper too. So I am not sure what all the rant of Nikon not having constant F4 lenses is all about. F4 constant lenses by Canon are over rated IMHO. But Canon has sold millions of them, so excellent going Canon Marketing.

FYI DX and EF-S sales should be way more than pro equipment sales. Infact pro equipment is mostly given free for advertising at huge prestigeous events. If not for these lower consumer luring cameras there would be no money for all the R&D and spending on pro equipment. Infact pro equipment enables people to enter into either system who want to take those professional looking photos that these pro takes and their entry point into either system is DX and EF-S. These are the most important divsions for both Nikon and Canon.

A question for you. Is there any adapter that aloows full AF and matrix metering on Canon bodies for Nikon lenses. I guess TTL metering is there but I am not sure of AF. If no such perfect adapter exists, No one in their right minds will ever sell all their Nikon bodies and manually focus all their G and D lenses on Canon bodies.

Last edited by SPARKled : 9th November 2009 at 12:15.
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Old 9th November 2009, 12:30   #1990
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3. Why do I need this DOF adapter. We have not found a need for this. We take vide. I convert video to DVD (using Ulead) and watch. Ideally I would love to be able to stuff my AVCHD SD card into the PS3 and watch but I dont know if the PS3 can recognise a AVCHD video.


Quote
A The PlayStation 3 and many other Blu-ray players can play AVCHD video directly from memory cards. Simply plug a high-speed SDHC card reader into a PS3 USB port and insert the card directly from your camcorder. The card will show onscreen as a video source, which you can select, play and control with the PS3 remote. Some stand-alone Blu-ray players also have USB ports or SD card slots that will accept the cards directly.

PS3 can handle memory cards | StarTribune.com

You can also burn blu-ray and play on ps3s.

Quote
Not that the TZ7 or ZS3 are bad camera but I wonder if a 24-300 or 28-560 lens will be as fast or have as little distortion as a 24-60 or 28-100 lens respectively. You cant have 15x or 20x zoom without distortion at both ends of the zoom range. The other factor will be speed (in effect low light - indoor light capability) longer zoom ranges mean more glass elements. Each glass element added means loss of some light.

I read recently that all lenses performance are acceptable in normal light. A recent comparison of kit lenses and HG zooms with the same range performed equally, even though the HGs were higher specced (faster stops). Primes and HG/SHG lenses really shine in low light situations. How much of our shots are low light? Even rock concerts are well lit nowadays!
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Old 9th November 2009, 12:57   #1991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proton View Post
The PlayStation 3 and many other Blu-ray players can play AVCHD video directly from memory cards. Simply plug a high-speed SDHC card reader into a PS3 USB port and insert the card directly from your camcorder.

I read recently that all lenses performance are acceptable in normal light. A recent comparison of kit lenses and HG zooms with the same range performed equally, even though the HGs were higher specced (faster stops). Primes and HG/SHG lenses really shine in low light situations. How much of our shots are low light? Even rock concerts are well lit nowadays!
My PS3-60GB has Compact flash and Memory stick and SD RAM ports so I cant use these ports and have to use a high speed USB?
PlayStation 3 (PS3) Review / Preview for PlayStation 3
PlayStation 3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

50% of my photos are in low light (indoor) conditions.
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Old 9th November 2009, 13:40   #1992
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My PS3-60GB has Compact flash and Memory stick and SD RAM ports so I cant use these ports and have to use a high speed USB?

I checked: the PS3 -60gb can read sdhc directly. My laptop needs the adaptor.


PlayStation 3 (PS3) Review / Preview for PlayStation 3
PlayStation 3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

50% of my photos are in low light (indoor) conditions.
LX3 for you! I believe that you're getting it from malaysia. The prices are even better than Hong Kong now:

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2.9K in Msia. Check out shashinki & Yamiya.

Micro Four Third User Thread V1 (E-P2 released!)

Check out the price list from poster named ceriss.
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Old 9th November 2009, 14:37   #1993
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
1. My requirement will be a camera that can make nois efree images (JPG) on a PS3 and 46"-65" LCD TV. The camera must be pocketable, usable indoors and in low light and have a decent wide zoom (28mm - 4x is adequate). Recomendations?
I am looking for a DECENT WIDE ZOOM + POCKETABLE camera only, let me know when you find it. Only issue i put up is, it cannot be from Ricoh or Sigma. They just don`t know how to implement quality controls.


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Originally Posted by navin View Post
many Nikon lenses and Canon lenses are now quite well matched in price/performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
2. dude there a many nikon lenses for which canon has no alternate and vice-versa.
I was just making a point. I am not going to twist your words here. Both comments are correct. There are a fair bit of lenses in direct competition BECAUSE THEY ARE REQUIRED TO BE. But both companies also have lenses that other will never release. This is how they distinguish themselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
3. Why do I need this DOF adapter. We have not found a need for this. We take vide. I convert video to DVD (using Ulead) and watch. Ideally I would love to be able to stuff my AVCHD SD card into the PS3 and watch but I dont know if the PS3 can recognise a AVCHD video.
This is what DOF is.

Don`t confuse it with Depth of Focus.

DOf adpater is used to get similar DOF like you see on professional productions, like movies in cinemas. Idea is you mount a 35mm lens on a tube and project the image on a focusing screen. You put this tube in front of your camcorder and zoom till you just see the complete focusing screen. This give you 35mm look.

Don`t think just using this adapter and playing back on a big screen will give you cinema look, you will need to shoot at 24p since that is what is used in cinemas. You can shoot higher and bring it to 24p in post processing easy enough.

I am not sure about PS3 and memory card scenario. But i beleive you can access it over a network and still watch. In my case i only and only play Wii.

Have you tried Vegas yet? i beleive it solves quite few issues over ulead but is a bit slow in rendering.


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Originally Posted by navin View Post
why do you need 2 70-200/2.8 lenses?

the f/4 is sharper than the f/2.8 when both lenses are tested at f/4?
Yep, most of Canon f4`s are sharper than equivalent f2.8`s at f4. But its more about cheap and light weight that counts. A professional won`t care what the price is, Nikon D3x and MF/LF kits are the example here. Its hobbyists that care about the price.

f2.8 lenses provide sweet spot for DOF.


Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Not that the TZ7 or ZS3 are bad camera but I wonder if a 24-300 or 28-560 lens will be as fast or have as little distortion as a 24-60 or 28-100 lens respectively. You cant have 15x or 20x zoom without distortion at both ends of the zoom range. The other factor will be speed (in effect low light - indoor light capability) longer zoom ranges mean more glass elements. Each glass element added means loss of some light.
Exactly!


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Originally Posted by proton View Post
Correction.
The whole point of getting video mode on a dslr ....snip....
Aah, the whole easy and cheap trick. Remember in the end it costs more to go this way. And to be honest, i havn`t met a single professional who use Arriflex, Bolex, Elmo using Gh1.

And everyone that jumped from film is either shooting 2k+ or staying with film. Since none of the DSLR`s/1080p cameras(yep sony ex series) are good enough for them. To be honest here in australia, Sony EX series have been dumped and almost all studios are moving onwards to SI. Red is an option but too many issues with the equipment at this stage. Even recent digital solution from Arri is good enough for them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by proton View Post
We can post on the dpreview thread if you want, because it would be beating a dead horse exercise here. All the relevant ground has already been covered at the link I provided. The LX3 has controls that canít be used given the small sensor size, even though itís marginally bigger than that of a normal PandS. You pay more for unused bells and whistles.

Thanks for a stimulating discussion!

Its good to read Dpreview`s reviews on cameras but me going into the forum, sorry but that`s not going to happen. Dpreview forum is a group where users buy 1dxxx, Dx and Axxx series and argue over 400% magnification of jpeg`s than anything else. Not to mention the users who buy and stock gear but never shoot anything.


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Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
The only real advantage of the F4 ...snip ...F4 constant lenses by Canon are over rated IMHO. But Canon has sold millions of them, so excellent going Canon Marketing.
I agree 100%, f4 lenses are CHEAP and LIGHTER, hence easy to carry. Remember when you are out for a hike and you want to cover 18-200mm range with decent quality lens selection. f2.8 lenses suddenly feels stupid just because of the weight and the fact is fair bit of f2.8`s are a bit soft either in corners or in the center at f2.8 and come into full potential at f4. At this point suddenly f4 seems very good, less than half the weight and almost half the price but similar performance. No wonder Canon sells more f4`s than f2.8`s


Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
FYI DX and EF-S sales should be way more than pro equipment sales. Infact pro equipment is mostly given free for advertising at huge prestigeous events. If not for these lower consumer luring cameras there would be no money for all the R&D and spending on pro equipment. Infact pro equipment enables people to enter into either system who want to take those professional looking photos that these pro takes and their entry point into either system is DX and EF-S. These are the most important divsions for both Nikon and Canon.
I agree 100%. Hence the reason MF/LF kits are still way expensive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
A question for you. Is there any adapter that aloows full AF and matrix metering on Canon bodies for Nikon lenses. I guess TTL metering is there but I am not sure of AF. If no such perfect adapter exists, No one in their right minds will ever sell all their Nikon bodies and manually focus all their G and D lenses on Canon bodies.
Don`t think so. Adapters are available to mount F/K/Leica R/M/S/M42 to Canon but don`t think any lets you shoot with AF and metering. But metering can be done in-body. So you only need to do MF. To be honest, its not hard to sell-buy second hand lenses outside india (i am not sure about india). There are ridiculous amount of online groups where photographic equipment can be sold/purchased. To this add ebay/gumtree and likes and its not hard to get rid of gear. This only makes jumping ships easy enough when needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by proton View Post
I read recently that all lenses performance are acceptable in normal light. A recent comparison of kit lenses and HG zooms with the same range performed equally, even though the HGs were higher specced (faster stops). Primes and HG/SHG lenses really shine in low light situations. How much of our shots are low light? Even rock concerts are well lit nowadays!
What is normal light? Or for that matter, how long is a piece of string?

This is how tests are manipulated or a mistake is made during testing. For example leave one variable and all the other constants don`t matter at all. Its like Ken Rockwell comparing Leica 24mm f2.8 vs Canon 16-35mm f2.8 and Nikon 24-70mm f2.8, even tough most of the things are constant, he`s comparing a PRIME to a ZOOM. Things WILL turn out in favour of PRIME.

70% of my shots are in Studio where i can control Light and prefer a system based around a CCD than CMOS. To be honest a Pentax istDS would suffice me here because i can add or remove light as i need.

30% of my shots are in complete darkness, since i do landscapes and do them at 2-4am. Don`t ask me how/why, this is my field. So my lenses need to be sharper than a tack and are all focussed around low light performance.

Sorry guys i was rude anywhere. If i made a mistake please correct me.

Cheers
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Old 9th November 2009, 18:33   #1994
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Aah, the whole easy and cheap trick. Remember in the end it costs more to go this way. And to be honest, i havn`t met a single professional who use Arriflex, Bolex, Elmo using Gh1.

And everyone that jumped from film is either shooting 2k+ or staying with film. Since none of the DSLR`s/1080p cameras(yep sony ex series) are good enough for them. To be honest here in australia, Sony EX series have been dumped and almost all studios are moving onwards to SI. Red is an option but too many issues with the equipment at this stage. Even recent digital solution from Arri is good enough for them.

Its good to read Dpreview`s reviews on cameras but me going into the forum, sorry but that`s not going to happen. Dpreview forum is a group where users buy 1dxxx, Dx and Axxx series and argue over 400% magnification of jpeg`s than anything else. Not to mention the users who buy and stock gear but never shoot anything.
How about dvxuser forums? Are they good? Your advice may decide if I continue to read 'em or not.

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Back to 3 camera comparison. If someone showed me that clip and said, this is a comparison between 3 cameras that cost x, 2x, and 20X, I'd say no way.

GH1 vs Red One vs Canon 5D Mk II footage comparison shoot out! - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

I did find the dpreview forumadvice helpful. Your mileage may vary.

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Some P&S do indeed offer those modes but many people aren't aware that the degree of control offered is nearly abysmal. These people frequently come from the SLR world and know that having aperture priority means that you have plenty of choices from f/1.7 or f/2.8, say, all the way down to f/22 or f/32. So far so good.

However, if the TZ7 had aperture priority, you would have from f/3.3 to f/6.3 at the wide setting and from f/4.9 to f/6.3 at the tele setting. Not much of a choice, isn't it ? Same applies to most other P&S, if not all.

There's also the fact that with full-frame SLRs, depth of field is much, much less than with small-sensor P&S's for a given focal length and aperture. So you can greatly control DOF in an SLR by varying the aperture from f/2.8 to f/22, say. Not so with a P&S, where going from f/3.3 or f/4.9 to f/6.3 will do very little to increase or diminish DOF, which will always be quite extensive. That's why it is so difficult to get beautifully out-of-focus backgrounds (bokeh) with P&S's.

In short, including a manual mode in a P&S is more of a marketing device than actually useful. It will do no harm, of course, but will do very little good. And nevertheless, you can mimic most of its functionality with the TZ7 by doing any of the following:

to make it select a fast shutter speed, just use one of the Sports-type scenes and/or specify a fast enough minimum shutter speed (say 1/250). The camera won't then select any speed slower than this.

Re: LX3's pocketability and ZS3's image quality?: Panasonic Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Quote
Of course it isn't. Actually, nothing beats the TZ7 (ZS3) zoom range for versatility, have a look at these two pictures I took with mine last summer, one is a 25 mm super wideangle shot, the other is a 300 mm super long telephoto shot, both taken within 5 seconds of one another. Try to do that with any DSLR, pro or not !

Re: Menus?: Panasonic Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
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Old 9th November 2009, 19:15   #1995
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How about dvxuser forums? Are they good? Your advice may decide if I continue to read 'em or not.
I don`t say yes or no to a forum. It all depends upon what you find. For example a certain australian forum is probably the worse forum possible. But its also the best as in it has the most information about cable/satellite tv and ways to copy/create/hack/steal cards and other things revolving around tv. You may find the info you are looking for and i might not.

Only real issue i have is with Dpreview forums and leica forums. Leica forums, anything other than leica is a crime and dpreview forums, well people spend 100K USD to get a dslr kit and store it rather than use it.

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Back to 3 camera comparison. If someone showed me that clip and said, this is a comparison between 3 cameras that cost x, 2x, and 20X, I'd say no way.

GH1 vs Red One vs Canon 5D Mk II footage comparison shoot out! - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Problem is not the comparison but the person doing it.

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Originally Posted by proton View Post
Some P&S do indeed offer those modes ...snip... any speed slower than this.
First of all Lx3 offers upto f8, there is no real sense in having anything above f8 since the light coming is so little, its cheaper and effective to shoot wide open with a ND filter instead.

I can argue about manual control but there is a reason why there is such a shortage for lx3 and its got nothing to do with supply and demand or panasonic controlling the supply. Its just that every dslr owner who needs a fast lens P&S wants it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by proton View Post
Of course it isn't. Actually, nothing beats the TZ7 (ZS3) zoom range for versatility, have a look at these two pictures I took with mine last summer, one is a 25 mm super wideangle shot, the other is a 300 mm super long telephoto shot, both taken within 5 seconds of one another. Try to do that with any DSLR, pro or not !
I am not saying tz7 is a bad camera. Its certainly good but the fact is lx3 and tz7 are completely opposite cameras.

Also honestly don`t you think most of the comments borderline or even cross over to fanboi-ism which frankly make no sense to me.

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