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Old 26th November 2009, 17:27   #2311
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Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
For example I mostly shoot birds/wildlife so reach is most important for me. If I were to start again on a budget, I would have given Olympus a serious thought compared to my existing Nikon gear. the Oly 70-300 could have easily given me a decent 600 mm which is not possible on a budget with the Nikon without TCs.
Since I have the Olympus system, I would advise against this. My longest lens is 50-200mm F/2.8-3.5 and not 70-300mm F/4-5.6, eventhough 70-300mm is half as cheap. The aperture values must have already given you the hint. The 70-300mm is much slower lens, has slow AF with hunting problem. In addition, it is not weather-sealed either. However, this lens is extremely sharp, would be terrific in bright conditions.

Generally it is hard to do birding with Olympus lenses unless you can afford the super grade lenses like 90-250mm F/2.8 or 300mm F/2.8, which are super expensive.

If you want to bird around with Olympus, go for Bigma like Sreeraj. I guess you all saw his Olympus E-500 doing magic with Bigma in the recent bird theme photography. The 70-300mm is good for bright light only.
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Old 26th November 2009, 17:28   #2312
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Many P&S cameras have an electronic shutter. I.e no physical curtain like DSLRS, simply electronic gates firing. So 1/80000 is actually quite tame for a modern IC
If I am not wrong even certain DSLRs like D50/D70 have electronic shutters which was a major advantage for high flash sync ups.

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Since I have the Olympus system, I would advise against this. My longest lens is 50-200mm F/2.8-3.5 and not 70-300mm F/4-5.6, eventhough 70-300mm is half as cheap. The aperture values must have already given you the hint. The 70-300mm is much slower lens, has slow AF with hunting problem. In addition, it is not weather-sealed either. However, this lens is extremely sharp, would be terrific in bright conditions.

Generally it is hard to do birding with Olympus lenses unless you can afford the super grade lenses like 90-250mm F/2.8 or 300mm F/2.8, which are super expensive.

If you want to bird around with Olympus, go for Bigma like Sreeraj. I guess you all saw his Olympus E-500 doing magic with Bigma in the recent bird theme photography. The 70-300mm is good for bright light only.
Yes I absolutely agree with you but I was speaking mainly about budget, light weight, good light birding where a DSLR and a 70-300 zoom will give you decent reach. Even if one uses the Bigma or the new 150-500, the reach is still a lot more than Canon/Nikon. So for some one like me reach is still king. But then they are not too great at 500 and wide open and also fall in the category of 'good light' lenses. The 300 2.8 would be excellent but is too expensive for a 300 2.8

Last edited by SPARKled : 26th November 2009 at 17:41.
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Old 26th November 2009, 17:46   #2313
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Many P&S cameras have an electronic shutter. I.e no physical curtain like DSLRS, simply electronic gates firing. So 1/80000 is actually quite tame for a modern IC
Ok that explains it.
But i still have a doubt reg electronic and mechanical shutters. In some cellphone cameras especially the better quality picture cellphone cameras the spec sheet reads of having a mechanical shutter instead of an electronic shutter. Reasoning is that mechanical shutter cellphone cameras produce a better pic compared to the electronic shutter types. This is what i have read in gsmarena reviews. In that case shouldn't the P&S cameras come with a mechanical shutter?
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Old 26th November 2009, 17:54   #2314
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I have been involved in CHDK since 2006, so quite aware of it. I can rephrase my question and make a huge list but my point is not going to even come across since you have made your mind that CHDK will do fine with a P&S instead of a DSLR. So i give up.
Interesting I would love to know the patches you have submitted to CHDK and your handle on CHDK. There is so much to learn from you

but one thing I do not understand why you presume so much , You brought in this angle of 1/8000 which does not exists in DSLR of the original poster.

There are two ways to solve an issue either get a proper trouble free solution if you have moolah to spend. Or find a close workaround.
Most people over here in India do not like to spend so much of moolah on equipment untill they are earning something out of it and thats why multiple solution approach is ingrained in our thinking.

The problem statement given was inability to change lens outdoor
and there can be several solutions depending on usage and budget such as

(a) Get a weatherproof DSLR with multiple lenses and an 4X4 SUV to go to inaccessible places where you can sit and change lenses. Costly if you already do not own

(b) Get a wathersealed camera and 18-300 / 18-200 or whatevr IS USM or its equivalent lens for Nikon. Again this costs quite a big for some people.
In fact I do not see many 18-300 IS USM for sale in a city like Bangalore it is imperative that the buyers are niche segment.

(c) Get a P&S for those moments where you can not lug around to overcome few limitations use GPL software such as CHDK.

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And my point was how many P&S comes with 1/8000 shutter speed from manufacturer and not by added software. About budget/lower end DSLR`s well you didn`t suggested lower end budget P&S, you suggested higher end P&S,
so lets please compare an apple to an apple and higher end P&S to higher end DSLR, it will make more sense to everyone.
This higher end P&S is lot cheaper then the lens being suggested here that is 18-200 IS USM to fulfill the task


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I know people use it, but the fact is, in the end P&S + CHDK is not going to fill the gap of a DSLR
Did anyone ever say that ? There is a lot of difference between " DSLR like" and DSLR and if everyone would have taken approach of spending money tehre would have been no CHDK at all.

Last edited by amitk26 : 26th November 2009 at 18:01. Reason: Clarifying on cost part
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Old 26th November 2009, 18:00   #2315
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If I am not wrong even certain DSLRs like D50/D70 have electronic shutters which was a major advantage for high flash sync ups.
Flash sync more than 1/250 is not really required. When it comes to high speed photography, shutter speed is irrelevant, flash is what freezes action and not shutter speed.

I know its hard to get head around it but once u do, high speed photography becomes quite simple.

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Old 26th November 2009, 18:26   #2316
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Interesting I would love to know...snip...
CHDK is a different matter and i would like to go as far as possible from it, since users of CHDK don't realise the potential pandora's box.

I am not presuming anything.

- OP asked for a suggestion for an ALL ROUNDER LENS and you suggested and P&S.
- I tried to make a point that DSLR`s have more FLEXIBIITY and CONTROL, like upto 1/8000 shutter speed from Manufacturers directly and navin made the point of SENSOR size which is very important.
- Your answer was to use CHDK.
- My answer is still that CHDK cannot compete with a DSLR.

Please let me know if i presumed anything here.

Actually Tamron 18-250 (or there abouts) is quite reasonably priced and Tamron is currently offering quite a few cashbacks on it, altough i am not sure about these cashbacks available in india. OP Already has a Secondary P&S where he/she doesn`t want to lug around a DSLR.

Higher End P&S is still a P&S, with getting the particular Higher End P&S, you are loosing out on faster AF performance, DOF advantage and high ISO as well as low noise. These are the things that even CHDK cannot correct.

Actually there is a whole segment of DSLR LIKE cameras which are called Bridge Cameras.

You might not be saying it, but anyone reading your posts gets the sense that you are suggesting it.

And i will close my post with the note that CHDK was not developed to add functions to P&S`s. Whole purpose of CHDK was to lock functions from lower end models that used same processor and sensor as higher end models. But the whole scenario has changed and not its an OS in its own and there are more developers than the firmware versions. Its a potential pandora's box awaiting to be opened.

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Old 26th November 2009, 18:31   #2317
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Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
Flash sync more than 1/250 is not really required. When it comes to high speed photography, shutter speed is irrelevant, flash is what freezes action and not shutter speed.

I know its hard to get head around it but once u do, high speed photography becomes quite simple.

Cheers
Well the point is that you have to over power the ambient lighting to freeze action and sometimes the onboard flash or low power flash guns are not powerful enough, so higher shutter speeds is the only answer. When shutter speeds are low and the action is very fast and you use a flash to freeze action you get trailing lighted images or ghosting.

Last edited by SPARKled : 26th November 2009 at 18:36.
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Old 26th November 2009, 18:53   #2318
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Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
Even if one uses the Bigma or the new 150-500, the reach is still a lot more than Canon/Nikon. So for some one like me reach is still king. But then they are not too great at 500 and wide open and also fall in the category of 'good light' lenses. The 300 2.8 would be excellent but is too expensive for a 300 2.8
The review at SLRGear says this about the lens:

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That said, for the money, the Olympus 70-300mm /4-5.6 offers good results for sharpness, particularly under 150mm and especially at 100mm. CA, corner shading and distortion are also well-controlled, making this a very good deal for the money - provided you're not buying this lens for its performance at 300mm.
That kind of defeats the purpose. Olympus Lens: Zooms - Olympus 70-300mm f/4-5.6 ED Zuiko Digital (Tested) - SLRgear.com!
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Old 26th November 2009, 18:59   #2319
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The review at SLRGear says this about the lens:

That kind of defeats the purpose. Olympus Lens: Zooms - Olympus 70-300mm f/4-5.6 ED Zuiko Digital (Tested) - SLRgear.com!
Hmm so its not too great at 300. But then I am not very surprised as super zooms tend to be a lot worse at the their longer ends than their shorter ends. So is the 150-500/Bigma the best lens for birding without a tripod on an Olympus system? My budget is limited to $1000. I guess the E3 should be pretty good with AF on these Sigmas.
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Old 26th November 2009, 19:05   #2320
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Yeah, the bigma would be lot better at 300-400 than at 500mm. If you are birding, Bigma is the way to go on Olympus. E3 has lightening fast AF, even at low light conditions. But I don't know E3+Bigma AF speed, I haven't tried it personally.
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Old 27th November 2009, 08:00   #2321
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Well the point is that you have to over power the ambient lighting to freeze action and sometimes the onboard flash or low power flash guns are not powerful enough, so higher shutter speeds is the only answer. When shutter speeds are low and the action is very fast and you use a flash to freeze action you get trailing lighted images or ghosting.
Forget the ambient light. Watch this video and see how the guy used strobe effect to light up the drops at precise moment to create the illusion.



He did it in dark room since he used dye to make the drops fluorescent and UV LEDs are not that powerful, if i remember correctly MIT students did the same but used actual strobes to get the same effect with 2 streams of water colliding.

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Old 27th November 2009, 08:44   #2322
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Slightly Off topic, but did not want to start another thread.! Maybe experts can guide me here,

1. Use of good quality Telescopes with NIKON mount attachment as an alternate to the expensive 400/600 mm Lenses. Good star gazing telescopes are avble for around 20K only .?

2. Continue the use of film camera's, however digitize the pictures and not print hard copies.? would the Digital outputs be comparable .?

Only expnese is 120 for the Film and 20 for the developing and a one time expense of 14K for the Cannon 35mm film scanner

Last edited by shivshanker : 27th November 2009 at 08:45.
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Old 27th November 2009, 09:19   #2323
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Slightly Off topic, but did not want to start another thread.! Maybe experts can guide me here...snip...
1. You can do it, many people do it but in the end quality isn't there. In reality, SLR lenses are converted into telescopes using field adapters. Now why will someone buy an expensive lens and then an adapter as a telescope alternative when they can buy more than 3-4 telescopes with longer range and still come cheaper. You can google the answer.

If you are looking for a cheap long range lens, why not try something like a mirror reflex lens, there are pretty cheap and have long reach. The only issue is CA (Chromatic Abberation) and DONUT bokeh. Some people like DONUT bokeh and use these lenses specifically to get it.

2. Quality is comparable, in reality with proper drum scanning equipment, film actually produces better results and in a sense more mega-pixels.

But can you really guarantee than each frame you shoot will be perfect since you cannot view it on the spot, digital lets you do that and this is digital`s best feature, shoot the images on the spot and it can be tethered to display images just shot less than 10 sec ago to be displayed at a big lcd/plasma for viewing purposes or on a mac/pc for client`s benefit on the spot. Film doesn't have this flexibility and relies on th user to do all the calculations.

That being said, film is still in high demand, both because of purists and because of fashion industry.

If you need to, i suggest get your film scanned by a professional studio/store using Drum Equipment.

Cheers
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Old 27th November 2009, 10:03   #2324
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Ok that explains it.
But i still have a doubt reg electronic and mechanical shutters. In some cellphone cameras especially the better quality picture cellphone cameras the spec sheet reads of having a mechanical shutter instead of an electronic shutter. Reasoning is that mechanical shutter cellphone cameras produce a better pic compared to the electronic shutter types. This is what i have read in gsmarena reviews. In that case shouldn't the P&S cameras come with a mechanical shutter?
Thats plain fud. Its more to do with size and type of sensor, and what kind of switching it entails. . Normally, its standard practice to overhype claims when it comes to cameras.
Many P&S cameras employ electronic shutter and do just fine.


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Yeah, the bigma would be lot better at 300-400 than at 500mm. If you are birding, Bigma is the way to go on Olympus. E3 has lightening fast AF, even at low light conditions. But I don't know E3+Bigma AF speed, I haven't tried it personally.
I think overall the oly platfrom is better suited to birding due to 2x crop factor. a Bigma at 400mm will become a whopping 800mm in reach in 35mm equiv!
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Old 27th November 2009, 11:16   #2325
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I think overall the oly platfrom is better suited to birding due to 2x crop factor.
But only using thrid party lenses that don't have weather seal. I don't have non-Zuiko lenses, hence don't get into birding.
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