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Old 27th November 2009, 11:22   #2326
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Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
Forget the ambient light. Watch this video and see how the guy used strobe effect to light up the drops at precise moment to create the illusion.



He did it in dark room since he used dye to make the drops fluorescent and UV LEDs are not that powerful, if i remember correctly MIT students did the same but used actual strobes to get the same effect with 2 streams of water colliding.

Cheers
Sorry I am lost. The whole point of using flash to freeze action is to overpower the ambient light. You video has nothing to do with real life situations using a camera and a flash gun. A question to you, how to use these strobes on a camera when you are among the hundreds of photo journalits capturing a fast dance performance in a dimly lit theatre with only a camera and a flash gun per journalist. I am not talking about a controlled environment where you can put strobes all over the place.

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1. You can do it, many people do it but in the end quality isn't there. In reality, SLR lenses are converted into telescopes using field adapters. Now why will someone buy an expensive lens and then an adapter as a telescope alternative when they can buy more than 3-4 telescopes with longer range and still come cheaper. You can google the answer.

If you are looking for a cheap long range lens, why not try something like a mirror reflex lens, there are pretty cheap and have long reach. The only issue is CA (Chromatic Abberation) and DONUT bokeh. Some people like DONUT bokeh and use these lenses specifically to get it.


Cheers
Unfortunately then you have not really seen good digiscoped shots. Digiscoping is getting increasingly popular to shoot at longer focal lengths and I am not talking of focal lenghts in the range of SLR lenses like 500-100mm. I am talking of 1200mm and greater. Agreed the flexibility and the features of a super telephoto like a 600 or a 800 prime is not there, but then the packages are quite small, ranges are huge and much better than the mirror lenses that you have suggested. I have recently bought a Pentax PF80 ED spotting scope and will try my hand in digiscoping soon.
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Old 27th November 2009, 11:22   #2327
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Thats plain fud. Its more to do with size and type of sensor, and what kind of switching it entails. . Normally, its standard practice to overhype claims when it comes to cameras.
Many P&S cameras employ electronic shutter and do just fine.
+1 to this Gsmarina does not tell you full story . The so called mechanical shutter in Sony-Erricson is not mechanicall but it is just a cover for lens and sensor like in any other P&S. This mechanical covering is not actually a shutter and disadvantage is that form factor of mobile becomes bigger. Sony-Erricson hyped it for marketing.
How do I know this ? Well I am somewhat insider to mobile industry.

Over and above actually Electronic shutters have advantage over mechanical , In fact Nikon flirted with Hybrid shutter for DSLR range.

Yes electronic shutter complicates circuitry in simple terms but that is not a reason for DSLR selling above 1000$ not to have them. Also an often cited reason again electronic shutters is ghosting but that is also a FUD.

The real reason is that shutter count is the biggest reason for Pro-s with high usage to sell off the camera body when Shutter actuation reaches 50% or more of the rated count and then ugrade to next high end thing.

Now just think of it if DSLR range eliminates the mechanical shutter Canon , Nikon etc will shoot in their foot by not having a valid reason for their premium customer to upgrade. No sane person will spend thousands of $$ to upgrade body just for new AF modes or megapixel added.
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Old 27th November 2009, 12:01   #2328
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+1 to this Gsmarina does not tell you full story . The so called mechanical shutter in Sony-Erricson is not mechanicall but it is just a cover for lens and sensor like in any other P&S. This mechanical covering is not actually a shutter and disadvantage is that form factor of mobile becomes bigger. Sony-Erricson hyped it for marketing.
How do I know this ? Well I am somewhat insider to mobile industry.

Over and above actually Electronic shutters have advantage over mechanical , In fact Nikon flirted with Hybrid shutter for DSLR range.

Yes electronic shutter complicates circuitry in simple terms but that is not a reason for DSLR selling above 1000$ not to have them. Also an often cited reason again electronic shutters is ghosting but that is also a FUD.

The real reason is that shutter count is the biggest reason for Pro-s with high usage to sell off the camera body when Shutter actuation reaches 50% or more of the rated count and then ugrade to next high end thing.

Now just think of it if DSLR range eliminates the mechanical shutter Canon , Nikon etc will shoot in their foot by not having a valid reason for their premium customer to upgrade. No sane person will spend thousands of $$ to upgrade body just for new AF modes or megapixel added.

I wonder what image quality these 8 and 12 mp mobile cameras will be able to deliver on their tiny ccd/cmos sensors, as I see this a plain hype to lure in consumers to high end mobiles costing equal to some low end DSLRs.

Nikon provided these elecronic shutters to only the lower end models and I guess have now discontinued these shutter completely (I may wrong here though). The D80 which was the D70 replacement went to the full mechnical shutter mechanism and people really cried about this 'downgrade' for lower flash sync ability. Also the pros dont change cameras for shutter failure as shutters are relatively inexpensive to replace, but then the shutters of these pro cameras are usually fine till about 150K actuations and thats a lot of years of shooting and they generally replace their camera bodies way before then for better features and improved sensors more than anything else.
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Old 27th November 2009, 12:28   #2329
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I wonder what image quality these 8 and 12 mp mobile cameras will be able to deliver on their tiny ccd/cmos sensors, as I see this a plain hype to lure in consumers to high end mobiles costing equal to some low end DSLRs.

.
Well In mobile phone image quality depends a lot on the processing done on the DSP. Most of the mobile phones of top 4 vendors have Phillips , NEC and Fujutsu as OEM camera module supplier, The JPEG encoding is done by Camera module itself after 2002 to reduce bandwidth requirement of bus connecting Cam to CPU.

So the same camera module from Fujutsu on same platform may give entierly different result based on the tweaking done in Code.

Usually Camera module with more megapixel is on a newer generation platform with more advanced DSP as well so overall image quality increases.

In my company typically a multimedia team spends their entire time tweaking camera and fixing all the bugs raised by quality team during product life cycle. And the end results differ quite perceptibly at the start of project and at the time of product release for same hardware.

Megapixel count is not very important beyond may be 5 MP here as it allows sufficiently large prints to be developed. Also this is the number for which customer buys camera.

All that labeling of Carl Zeuss , Schnider lens etc. does not make much sense here because these lenses are not same as their more famous DSLR cousins.

PS : Let me tell you one thing , You need to appreciate the fact that working within constraints of mobile phone is not very easy task,
At any point battery life and Call is most important , You can not write an image processing algorithm which consumes too much CPU and hinders other important tasks similarly you can not leave too many running tasks which can hinder power states.
In DSLR / P&S it is the Optics which is at the play in mobile phones it is all about software.

Last edited by amitk26 : 27th November 2009 at 12:39.
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Old 27th November 2009, 13:13   #2330
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Sorry I am lost. The whole point of using flash to freeze action is to overpower the ambient light...snip...
You use a Flash modifier or a SNOOT.

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Unfortunately then you have not really seen good digiscoped shots...snip...
I have but then i am more of a purist and prefer to keep telescopes and primes seperate. That being said i do admire the work that goes into adopting a prime for austronomy and freezing the sensor to do 5hrs exposures, Or freezing a DSLR to -40 degrees and putting it behind a telescope.


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I wonder what image quality these 8 and 12 mp mobile cameras will be able to deliver on their tiny ccd/cmos sensors...snip...
Tiny sensors mean huge DOF and huge noise, here the size of the lens or type or precision can`t help here. For example Iphone 3GSs's lens is f2.8 and yet its pathetic because sensor is so small and full of noise.

As far as i know, 1Dx series and Dx series come with 300K shutter span and i have seen studios racking up to 30K shutter per month, sometimes even more.

Professionals upgrade bodies because they can (tax exemptions) and because clients wants to know what you will be using than anything else. So when a client wants you to use D3x for a $100K assignment, well you will go and get one overnight.


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Well In mobile phone image quality depends a lot on the processing done on the DSP...snip...
So do you reckon optics play no part what-so-ever and it all depends on the encoding.


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Old 27th November 2009, 13:15   #2331
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Can't get this from grey market so ordered one more just now from Canon.

Ni-MH PACK NP-E3 12V @ 10900/-
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Old 27th November 2009, 13:47   #2332
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Can't get this from grey market so ordered one more just now from Canon.

Ni-MH PACK NP-E3 12V @ 10900/-
Pretty sure i saw one made by INCA.

I thought u used 1D mk3 ??

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Old 27th November 2009, 14:06   #2333
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guys can you please suggest me which one to choose from,
Nikon D3000,Nikon CP P90,

or if you can suggest some other brand model, do so.
Checking options available in Canon as well.
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Old 27th November 2009, 14:20   #2334
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Pretty sure i saw one made by INCA.
I'd like to stick to Canon and getting their warranty also.
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I thought u used 1D mk3 ??
I use 1Ds Mark II.
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Old 27th November 2009, 14:37   #2335
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Can't get this from grey market so ordered one more just now from Canon.

Ni-MH PACK NP-E3 12V @ 10900/-
Did you try buying online Amazon has NP-E3 for 119$ even after paying duty it will be substantially cheaper.

There is an alternative 3ed party just for approx 40$ and this you will get duty free at your door steps. I think no harm in trying this one.

Amazon.com: Lenmar DMCE3 Digital Camera Equivalent to the Canon 7084A001, Canon NP-E3 Batteries: Electronics
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Old 27th November 2009, 14:43   #2336
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Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
You use a Flash modifier or a SNOOT.

I have but then i am more of a purist and prefer to keep telescopes and primes seperate. That being said i do admire the work that goes into adopting a prime for austronomy and freezing the sensor to do 5hrs exposures, Or freezing a DSLR to -40 degrees and putting it behind a telescope.

Cheers
A snoot will only concentrate the light on your subject and not really aid you to freeze your subject. The digiscopped shots using top DSLRs and top spotting scopes like the Kowa 883 and good quality astro scopes will be better or as good as the pictures taken by exotic 600 and 800 primes.
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Old 27th November 2009, 14:47   #2337
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<snipped>
So do you reckon optics play no part what-so-ever and it all depends on the encoding.


Cheers
Not just encoding but parameter settings , and Image processing algorithms applied in the phone before storing the file. In DSLR world you do the same tasks in Adobe PS later on and call it post processing.

Also encoding parameters play their part more so in Video.

By this I do not mean that optics have no role but they are not a huge differentiators in mobile phones. Same hardware behaves quite differently with different builds.

OEM suppliers and camera modules are almost same still performance differ . I have seen the same hardware provinding bad images and videos and later tweaked to provide excellent output.
And that explains why some of the mobiles carrying best lens makers name on them provide worst images.
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Old 27th November 2009, 14:51   #2338
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There is an alternative 3ed party just for approx 40$ and this you will get duty free at your door steps. I think no harm in trying this one.

Amazon.com: Lenmar DMCE3 Digital Camera Equivalent to the Canon 7084A001, Canon NP-E3 Batteries: Electronics
Boss, I'm from old school and I like to stick to OE or what comes as OE.
I'll get a decent discount on that price for sure.

Amazon shipments takes more than 4-5 weeks. At least that what I see every time.
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Old 27th November 2009, 14:53   #2339
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anyone to answer my question please?
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Old 27th November 2009, 14:59   #2340
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Originally Posted by vijaythacker View Post
guys can you please suggest me which one to choose from,
Nikon D3000,Nikon CP P90,
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anyone to answer my question please?
Why such a huge contrast in choice?
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