Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears > Gadgets, Computers & Software


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st December 2009, 17:07   #2401
BHPian
 
Speed Pujari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 429
Thanked: 385 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post

I respectfully disagree. Using a D200 with a consumer grade lens is pure stupidity. Secondly since Sigma has quality issues with FRONT-BACK focusing issues and if your friend is using a D200, he should know better. Even if he decides to use a consumer grade lens, he should be able to adjust the lens focusing in the camera menu.

Its like buying a Nikon D3X and using Nikon 50mm f1.8 on it and that too with Auto Focus, its simply going to not work out.

Nikkor/Nikon alternative costs almost 2-3 times Sigma alternative. For a budget user its a clear choice.
I am kinda unable to get both the points . Why can't we use a consumer grade lens over a D200? A D200 is a semi-pro DSLR and is DX-format and I dont know whats wrong in using it that way?

Again with the Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 combo with the D3x, still i am trying to get the point. Nikkor gives only three options for 50mm prime - f/1.8, f/1.4 and f/1.4 AF-S.
f/1.4 is an overkill for many.
And Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 is a FX-format so no question of vignette with full frame. So is there any valid reason for not using that lens with D3x?

Quote:
Its like buying a Nikon D3X and using Nikon 50mm f1.8 on it and that too with Auto Focus, its simply going to not work out.
And why is that not going to work out precisely?

Peace. I may have not got your points correctly it_inspector, so kindly bear. But maybe you can share some insights into if I am missing anything here.

Quote:
Most important word EXPERIENCED PHOTOGRAPHER. And definately expensive glass doesn't make a good photographer.
Cheers
Indeed.
But an expensive glass when used by an EXPERIENCED PHOTOGRAPHER does make even better photograph than using a cheap glass by the same guy and for the same subject at the same FL and same setting.

This is a hard fact for any Experienced or non-Experienced photographer that glass quality DOES matter. There's no magic.

Quote:
Nikkor/Nikon alternative costs almost 2-3 times Sigma alternative. For a budget user its a clear choice.
Its better to wait than compromise. The proprietory lens are expensive but not all expense goes to brand premium.
My Tamron 90mm Macro performs as good as Nikkor 105mm macro BUT only till f/8. Beyond f/8 there is a clear difference in sharpness between the lenses. So the price diff is justifiable.

I do not have a reqmnt to use it beyond f/8, so I am good.

Last edited by Speed Pujari : 1st December 2009 at 17:12.
Speed Pujari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 17:21   #2402
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 506
Thanked: 52 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post

But an expensive glass when used by an EXPERIENCED PHOTOGRAPHER does make even better photograph than using a cheap glass by the same guy and for the same subject at the same FL and same setting.

This is a hard fact for any Experienced or non-Experienced photographer that glass quality DOES matter. There's no magic.


Lemme buy a 1 lakh rupee lens (Expensive enough i guess) and take pictures. The pictures should be far better (cos of glass quality) than the cheap lens even though i dont know 80% of the features.

the point is- expensive lens adds the points for the experience one has in the field.
Peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
Its better to wait than compromise. The proprietory lens are expensive but not all expense goes to brand premium.
My Tamron 90mm Macro performs as good as Nikkor 105mm macro BUT only till f/8. Beyond f/8 there is a clear difference in sharpness between the lenses. So the price diff is justifiable.
Thats an individual opinion.

Well my opinion goes like this. Think of the category you are in and buy the lens accordingly. Once you are well verse with it and think that im experienced enough to handle an EXPENSIVe lens, sell the old one and buy a new one.

Last edited by Jaggu : 2nd December 2009 at 11:30. Reason: Back to back posts, use multi quote please.
livyodream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 17:37   #2403
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne, Hyd
Posts: 1,234
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by livyodream View Post
......
All the pictures are taken from so called CHEAP lens and experienced photographer.

I still dont get the human mentality when it comes to the word " CHEAP". Expensive lens doesnt make a better photographer. one needs to graduate to that level (not by buying the lens)..

Peace.
Agree and disagree.

Agree because, I have seen people using D40 with kit lens taking awesome pics. Also people with Canon 350D with kit lens. Neither of the kit lens comes with VR or IS respectively.

Disagree because, not all can be / want to be experienced photographer!!

Avi, I still suggest you to either go for the 18-55 VR or get the kit lens repaired. You did well while taking pics with the kit lens too while for some pics I felt the VR lens would be better.

option 2:

Since you are insisting on the tele zoom, you can get your kit lens repaired and buy the tele lens 55-200VR on a later date or save some more and go for 70-300 VR.
kkr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 18:25   #2404
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 27
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
I am kinda unable to get both the points . Why can't we use a consumer grade lens over a D200? A D200 is a semi-pro DSLR and is DX-format and I dont know whats wrong in using it that way?

Again with the Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 combo with the D3x, still i am trying to get the point. Nikkor gives only three options for 50mm prime - f/1.8, f/1.4 and f/1.4 AF-S.
f/1.4 is an overkill for many.
And Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 is a FX-format so no question of vignette with full frame. So is there any valid reason for not using that lens with D3x?

And why is that not going to work out precisely?

Peace. I may have not got your points correctly it_inspector, so kindly bear. But maybe you can share some insights into if I am missing anything here.
I so didn`t wanted to jump into this conversation and i was trying to avoid it, but looks like pandora's box needs to be opened. There are 2 major factors when using a DSLR - LENS combo, these are LENS Resolution (or Optical Resolution) and Sensor Resolution, please don't confuse with Megapixels (in other words Image Resolution). For ease of understanding, think of Sensor Resolution as ISO performance or Sensor Sensitivity (yes yes, its both right and wrong here).

With Semi-Pro to Pro bodies, Sensor resolution (or senstivity) is higher and hence lenses are designed with this fact in mind. Lens will outresolve sensor, in other words, Lens Resolution is higher than Sensor Resolution.

With consumer bodies, Sensor resolution (or senstivity) is low and hence CONSUMER lenses are designed with this fact in mind. CONSUMER lens will outresolve CONSUMER DSLR sensor, but Semi-pro to Pro bodies will outresolve the Lens, in other words Sensor resolution is higher than lens resolution.

Ideally Lens Resolution should outresolve Sensor Resolution otherwise Sensor is crippled by the Lens.

This is why it doesn`t make a sense to use consumer grade lens on a Semi-pro to Pro body. PnS cameras have same issue where sensor out resolves the lens (except Panasonic Lx-3 where its almost same).

About Nikon 50mm f1.8 on D3X/D3, well why would you use a consumer grade lens and decrease AF efficiency and still depend on AF ??? I cannot understand this.

Actually nikon also has 50mm f1.2 Ai-s variant and it isn't that expensive from 50mm f1.4 ai-s but is quite expensive from both 50mm f1.4 afs and D versions.

And with D200 one can adjust focusing issues for each lens, for example ur friend is having sharpness issues, usually caused by Sigma`s front/back focusing issue, it can be corrected quite easily in D200.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
Indeed.
But an expensive glass when used by an EXPERIENCED PHOTOGRAPHER does make even better photograph than using a cheap glass by the same guy and for the same subject at the same FL and same setting.

This is a hard fact for any Experienced or non-Experienced photographer that glass quality DOES matter. There's no magic.
Not really, for me using 70-300mm and 300mm f2.8vr is the same thing, since i stop down both to do my landscape shots. Unless i have to shoot at f2.8 but then again 300mm f2.8vr was not designed to be used at f2.8, it shines at f4

Glass does matter but the fact is this has been quite hyped now. Good glass gives almost same results sicne zooms are in similar performance ratio with primes now days. Where primes or good glass shines is faster AF and sometimes wide open aperture.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
Its better to wait than compromise. The proprietory lens are expensive but not all expense goes to brand premium.
My Tamron 90mm Macro performs as good as Nikkor 105mm macro BUT only till f/8. Beyond f/8 there is a clear difference in sharpness between the lenses. So the price diff is justifiable.

I do not have a reqmnt to use it beyond f/8, so I am good.
You cannot be suggesting that You don`t use your Macro above f8, macros are meant to shine between f5.6 to f16, otherwise DOF is just not available to do macros. Unless you want to do fake tilt-shift with macro, then its a different thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by livyodream View Post
Lemme buy a 1 lakh rupee lens (Expensive enough i guess) and take pictures. The pictures should be far better (cos of glass quality) than the cheap lens even though i dont know 80% of the features.

the point is- expensive lens adds the points for the experience one has in the field.
Peace.
Sorry but, 1 lakh is nothing for lenses these days, my most expensive DSLR lens is around Rs.4 Lakh and i am still not satisfied with it.

Sorry but expensive lens doesn't add to experience, expensive glass adds to convenience only and maybe faster AF performance. Going nuts shooting and experimenting adds to experience.

Cheers
it_inspector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 18:27   #2405
Team-BHP Support
 
mobike008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 10,522
Thanked: 7,197 Times
Default

I haven't checked this thread since morning and it seems to be that i am a culprit of starting a raging debate whether Sigma 70mm-300mm is a good lens or not with a lot of emphasize being laid on photo takers ability.

Well, i am an absolute layman in terms of photography and slow and steadily learning the ropes as i am in no rush to become an award winning photographer

Thanks to all you folks for your detailed feedbacks and healthy debate that has thrown a meaningful insight to what i can expect when and if i buy those lens.

I do know a few things for sure about 70mm-300mm Sigma APO lens as i was checking out quite a few samples last night

1. 70mm--Super sharp pics

2 Until 200mm-- Decently sharp pics

3. Above 200mm until 300mm--Good pics with subject if is center weighted comes out sharp but corners tend to soften up way too much.

@Livyodream, i cannot acess flicker from work, will check that link out in the night and see some results of these lens.

@kkrk2, my Nikon D40x "estimation result" has arrived this morning for the faulty AF issue on kit lens ( 18mm-55mm) and it seems the AF motor is fine but some board is not working and that board it seems is not available.

So i reckon i will have to manage with Manual zoom for my upcoming trip OR invest in a NEW VR Kit lens...my hands need to be inserted way too deep inside my pocket

At that price, Sigma still looks tempting so i am going to continue look at more sample images and parallely double check that "Delhi Deal" and decide soon.
mobike008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 19:05   #2406
BHPian
 
Speed Pujari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 429
Thanked: 385 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by livyodream View Post
Lemme buy a 1 lakh rupee lens (Expensive enough i guess) and take pictures. The pictures should be far better (cos of glass quality) than the cheap lens even though i dont know 80% of the features.

the point is- expensive lens adds the points for the experience one has in the field.
Peace.
Indeed.
Its good to look out for proprietory lens in that category for nearly equal specs. e.g. a Nikkor 70-300mm f/4 is way better than the Sigma counterpart, but it comes at a price.

On a lighter side- A 1 lakh lens will not buy you compositioning skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by livyodream View Post
Thats an individual opinion.

Well my opinion goes like this. Think of the category you are in and buy the lens accordingly. Once you are well verse with it and think that im experienced enough to handle an EXPENSIVe lens, sell the old one and buy a new one.
Agree and disagree, but rightly said its a personal opinion. I would better learn on a better quality glass (definitely not the best glass which is way expensive but the decent ones).
If am an enthusiast and can't afford a MIVEC then better I'll get a Palio GTX, but not an Alto :-).


Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
I haven't checked this thread since morning and it seems to be that i am a culprit of starting a raging debate whether Sigma 70mm-300mm is a good lens or not with a lot of emphasize being laid on photo takers ability.

Well, i am an absolute layman in terms of photography and slow and steadily learning the ropes as i am in no rush to become an award winning photographer

Thanks to all you folks for your detailed feedbacks and healthy debate that has thrown a meaningful insight to what i can expect when and if i buy those lens.

I do know a few things for sure about 70mm-300mm Sigma APO lens as i was checking out quite a few samples last night

1. 70mm--Super sharp pics

2 Until 200mm-- Decently sharp pics

3. Above 200mm until 300mm--Good pics with subject if is center weighted comes out sharp but corners tend to soften up way too much.

@Livyodream, i cannot acess flicker from work, will check that link out in the night and see some results of these lens.

@kkrk2, my Nikon D40x "estimation result" has arrived this morning for the faulty AF issue on kit lens ( 18mm-55mm) and it seems the AF motor is fine but some board is not working and that board it seems is not available.

So i reckon i will have to manage with Manual zoom for my upcoming trip OR invest in a NEW VR Kit lens...my hands need to be inserted way too deep inside my pocket

At that price, Sigma still looks tempting so i am going to continue look at more sample images and parallely double check that "Delhi Deal" and decide soon.
@Mobike- I would suggest u go for either a 18-55mm VR or the 55-200 f/4. If u think 18-55 is a repeat and expecting to get the one repaired then 55-200 is a good choice. I think it'll cost you nearly 10-12k grey. Use it in a right way and u r all done.

But my stand would be still against the Sigma APO.

OT:Sharing my website link: Link to my website
Speed Pujari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 19:16   #2407
BHPian
 
Proxima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chennai
Posts: 801
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
OT:Sharing my website link: Link to my website
Great shots!

What kit do you have?
Proxima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 19:31   #2408
BHPian
 
HellwratH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 115
Thanked: 57 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
OT:Sharing my website link: Link to my website
Double OT:
I didn't know it was you Bibudesh. Data modeler ko bhool gaye kya? :P I am not active on the other forum. :(
HellwratH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 21:33   #2409
Team-BHP Support
 
mobike008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 10,522
Thanked: 7,197 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by livyodream View Post
Disagree. reason mentioned in the previous posts.

As we are talking about someone elses review, I know a good friend/colleague of mine who used the same lens and has got amazing pictures (looks to me). check out his flickr album to get the idea about the results:

Flickr: Sri ..... !!'s Photostream

All the pictures are taken from so called CHEAP lens and experienced photographer.

I still dont get the human mentality when it comes to the word " CHEAP". Expensive lens doesnt make a better photographer. one needs to graduate to that level (not by buying the lens)..

Peace.
Can you beileve i checked all 16 pages of your friend and i am was amazed at the quality of the pictures. This has made me lean further towards it, thanks !

The lens seems to come out very well on the Macro end ( since 99% pics are macro). Pass on my best wishes to him, great job
mobike008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 23:18   #2410
BHPian
 
HellwratH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 115
Thanked: 57 Times
Default

And for all the Canonians who are deciding between Sigma 70-300 and Canon 55-250IS, Check this stream from a bangalore photographer. He uses 55-250IS extensively!
Flickr: swaheel's Photostream

Redrage also has had this lens for sometime and I am sorry I lost his flickr page URL.
HellwratH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 23:24   #2411
BHPian
 
married2speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: gurgaon
Posts: 215
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post

Sukhpal, I've been buying my camera stuff from CC since '83 and had no issues till date.
Thanks GD Bhai &Thanks Rajiv.

I'm planning to purchase a gt3530LS so would be heading over to CC this weekend (most likely) to check it out

Cheers!
m2s
married2speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2009, 07:11   #2412
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 27
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

I don't know is this is allowed or not. But i am just curious as to whether DSLR users here have their kit insured and if yes then by whom.

I personally have my kit insured here and would like to do the same while in india, so looking for suggestions too.

Thanks
it_inspector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2009, 10:56   #2413
Senior - BHPian
 
rkbharat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gurgaon/New Delhi
Posts: 1,590
Thanked: 606 Times
Default

One more issue to solve:

How do we take care of Cam and Lens in cold freezing conditions and snow?

What should I do if moving in and out of the car/Train/Hotel with freezing outside and hot inside.

Similarly How do the avoid dew/frost on lens and cam while entering from cold to hot region like hotel.

I have heard people carrying zip loc bags and while entering hot region from cold, they lock it in bag till the cam/lens come to normal temp.

BTW in my last trip to Ladakh this Sep, I never really cared about this issue with my Olympus P&S, though I was shooting in heavy snow and chilling night weather, moving in and out of the car.


And how do take care of battery power in cold conditions, carrying extra batteries and battry Grip ?
rkbharat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2009, 11:00   #2414
BHPian
 
SPARKled's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 916
Thanked: 283 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
I so didn`t wanted to jump into this conversation and i was trying to avoid it, but looks like pandora's box needs to be opened. There are 2 major factors when using a DSLR - LENS combo, these are LENS Resolution (or Optical Resolution) and Sensor Resolution, please don't confuse with Megapixels (in other words Image Resolution). For ease of understanding, think of Sensor Resolution as ISO performance or Sensor Sensitivity (yes yes, its both right and wrong here).

With Semi-Pro to Pro bodies, Sensor resolution (or senstivity) is higher and hence lenses are designed with this fact in mind. Lens will outresolve sensor, in other words, Lens Resolution is higher than Sensor Resolution.

With consumer bodies, Sensor resolution (or senstivity) is low and hence CONSUMER lenses are designed with this fact in mind. CONSUMER lens will outresolve CONSUMER DSLR sensor, but Semi-pro to Pro bodies will outresolve the Lens, in other words Sensor resolution is higher than lens resolution.

Ideally Lens Resolution should outresolve Sensor Resolution otherwise Sensor is crippled by the Lens.

This is why it doesn`t make a sense to use consumer grade lens on a Semi-pro to Pro body. PnS cameras have same issue where sensor out resolves the lens (except Panasonic Lx-3 where its almost same).

About Nikon 50mm f1.8 on D3X/D3, well why would you use a consumer grade lens and decrease AF efficiency and still depend on AF ??? I cannot understand this.

Actually nikon also has 50mm f1.2 Ai-s variant and it isn't that expensive from 50mm f1.4 ai-s but is quite expensive from both 50mm f1.4 afs and D versions.
Some consumer lenses can easily out resolve the sensors of most semi and pro DSLRs. Please see the link for a review of the simple 50 1.8 AF on a D200 here.
Nikkor AF 50mm f/1.8 D - Review / Test Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
And with D200 one can adjust focusing issues for each lens, for example ur friend is having sharpness issues, usually caused by Sigma`s front/back focusing issue, it can be corrected quite easily in D200.
Could you please explain about this feature of the D200. If you are talking about the AF fine tune adjustment I am not sure if the D200 has this feature.


Quote:
Originally Posted by it_inspector View Post
but then again 300mm f2.8vr was not designed to be used at f2.8, it shines at f4
Cheers
I respectfully disagree with your statement and know a lot of people who have a 300 2.8 just for the 2.8 and swear by it. I myself have found the 300 2.8 very much at peak sharpness at 2.8 with only slightly better borders at F4 on the sample I tried.
SPARKled is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2009, 11:37   #2415
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 27
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
Some consumer lenses can easily out resolve the sensors of most semi and pro DSLRs. Please see the link for a review of the simple 50 1.8 AF on a D200 here.
Nikkor AF 50mm f/1.8 D - Review / Test Report
I am talking aboud 50mm f1.8 on D3X/D3 and 70-300mm on D200.

As far as i know every FX lens is designed to outresolve upto the level of D3x except 50mm f1.8


Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
Could you please explain about this feature of the D200. If you are talking about the AF fine tune adjustment I am not sure if the D200 has this feature.
No D200 doesnt have AF Fine tune but there are alternative ways to do it, extreme being opening up the DSLR body and Lens rear element adjustment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
I respectfully disagree with your statement and know a lot of people who have a 300 2.8 just for the 2.8 and swear by it. I myself have found the 300 2.8 very much at peak sharpness at 2.8 with only slightly better borders at F4 on the sample I tried.
Well so far every 300mm f2.8vr i have used is a bit soft in the corners at f2.8, at f4 its sharp all around. Then again there are around 10 different versions with 2 different VR versions. I have the AFS VR 300mm f2.8G IF ED and it shines from f4.

Cheers
it_inspector is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DSLR Video Discussion Sankar Gadgets, Computers & Software 129 18th August 2017 19:07
On a Temple Visiting Spree! Returned with only 1 wish. Need a DSLR! mclaren1885 Travelogues 23 27th July 2007 11:21


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 22:30.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks