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Old 24th May 2011, 09:50   #7561
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

I opt for manual when I have time to study the lighting . Best example is when shooting flowers or other natural objects. Otherwise I prefer Aperture. Rarely I use full auto or program mode.
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Old 24th May 2011, 10:41   #7562
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Good discussion! I stick to Av for 95% of my shots and switch over to M or Tv only when the flash comes on. But this may be because I shoot mainly wildlife and/or kids all of which needs a good control over DOF and lesser adjustments in between shots. For nature shots, I'd still stick to Av unless there is a need to control the shutter speeds e.g deliberate long exposures, using ND/GND filters etc. The exposure compensation usually takes care of miniscule adjustments you'd need to do to offset the camera calculations.

I know a lot of times we try to find a sweetspot for the lens to get sharp pictures (usually at f8) and try to shoot at that aperture, but I always prefer shooting wide open in most cases unless the DOF is blurring out details on the subject. This gives me the fastest shutter speed possible and reduces chances of blur due to camera shake. Sometimes, you'll see shutter speeds going down below desired levels, thats when you either bump the ISO or get the flash out. I also buy my equipment keeping in mind the sharpness at wide open apertures, gives you a broader window for creativity.

For the camera, it really doesnt matter which mode you've set it in (Av/Tv) since it would have the best possible aperture/shutter combinations calculated already and all it needs to do is apply one of those settings depending on Tv or Av. The values chosen for a shutter and aperture combination will remain the same irrespective of the mode if your camera metering is consistent. For e.g. If you're in Av mode at f4 and the camera gives you a 1/200 shutter speed then in Tv mode it should suggest f4 for the same shutter speed to get the same image. While using M mode, it takes atleast a couple of test shots for me to get to the right exposure setting, so I keep this only when I have the leisure of time.
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Old 24th May 2011, 11:06   #7563
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Those are good points Amol and Samurai. My only issue is Av mode indoors, where I never good shutter speed with even higher ISO.

Need to try Av mode in open. That is the reason I always stuck with M mode.
As a result the hit rate of getting a good steady shot of the "actual moment" is very low.
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Old 24th May 2011, 11:29   #7564
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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Those are good points Amol and Samurai. My only issue is Av mode indoors, where I never good shutter speed with even higher ISO.

Need to try Av mode in open. That is the reason I always stuck with M mode.
As a result the hit rate of getting a good steady shot of the "actual moment" is very low.
I am not able to understand this. If you are in Av mode with aperture wide open and the camera sets a shutter speed of 1 sec then in M mode also you will have to set the same shutter speed to get the right exposure. Right exposure is merely a combination of aperture and shutter speed (at constant ISO and lighting conditions). It does not matter whether you set that manually or have the camera set it for you in Auto mode or P mode or half-set it for you in Av or Tv modes.

Perhaps you have set f/8 or f/7.1 in Av mode and f/3.5 in M mode. In that case, please do not blame the Av mode for giving you a shutter speed of 1 sec and praise the M mode for giving you faster shutter speeds. If shutter speed is of concern, then you may choose Tv mode and set your shutter speed. The camera will vary the aperture to give you right exposure.
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Old 24th May 2011, 11:30   #7565
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A serious doubt guys. I find Sandisk Ultra 8GB 30MB/s for Rs.1575 and Ultra II 15MB/s for Rs.2615. Am I missing something here ? I always thought higher MB per second is costlier regardless of the brand or type.
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Old 24th May 2011, 11:40   #7566
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I am not able to understand this. If you are in Av mode with aperture wide open and the camera sets a shutter speed of 1 sec then in M mode also you will have to set the same shutter speed to get the right exposure. Right exposure is merely a combination of aperture and shutter speed (at constant ISO and lighting conditions). It does not matter whether you set that manually or have the camera set it for you in Auto mode or P mode or half-set it for you in Av or Tv modes.

Perhaps you have set f/8 or f/7.1 in Av mode and f/3.5 in M mode. In that case, please do not blame the Av mode for giving you a shutter speed of 1 sec and praise the M mode for giving you faster shutter speeds. If shutter speed is of concern, then you may choose Tv mode and set your shutter speed. The camera will vary the aperture to give you right exposure.
I am not changing F number.

For a F-7.1 I can set a faster shutter speed, turn on flash and get the snap, which wont be possible in Av (If there is a solution do let me know. I am still learning).

And if I need to do without the flash, I can still get away with slightly a darker image in M mode and do a PP to add light. But at least I would be able to get a steady shot. Av with 1sec+ shutter requirement, will not allow me to do that. And while I struggle to get this set in M mode, I realize the moment is gone!

Please let me know if this reasoning is correct?
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Old 24th May 2011, 11:46   #7567
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I use M mode 100% of the time, I feel it is not the time consuming but getting used to it. I do not have to search for the buttons to set Aperture, Exposure or Timer, I just look into view finder and set everything. Usually my aperture is set to 13, because most of the time I shoot landscape.

After many trials I found Aperture 13 is the ideal for landscape shot for my Canon 16-35 2.8 II lens. I go to the lowest aperture only when I shoot portrait. Controlling aperture also helps in reducing over exposed images, e.g. below image I took with F18, because when I took this shot, it was bright sunny day. So I used F18, ISO 100 to reduce the overexpose at the same time I wanted very sharp image.
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Below shot I have taken the next day from the moving boat. ISO 200, F8, due to poor light condition and at the same time I wanted a sharp image.

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Old 24th May 2011, 11:52   #7568
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If you are shooting landscape, you have all the time to compose your shot and also the settings. If its an occasion, the you can easily miss the moment, if you get caught fiddling with the settings.

Since the last one year of learning, even I have been on M mode all the time. But I am beginning to see, if there is an Av mode, meant for a particular use and if it can provide you the same settings, which you will arrive by experience in M mode, why not use it. But somehow I have not been able to crack that problem, which I have been trying to explain in the last few posts.
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Old 24th May 2011, 11:55   #7569
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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
I am not changing F number.

For a F-7.1 I can set a faster shutter speed, turn on flash and get the snap, which wont be possible in Av (If there is a solution do let me know. I am still learning).

And if I need to do without the flash, I can still get away with slightly a darker image in M mode and do a PP to add light. But at least I would be able to get a steady shot. Av with 1sec+ shutter requirement, will not allow me to do that. And while I struggle to get this set in M mode, I realize the moment is gone!

Please let me know if this reasoning is correct?
This reasoning is not correct.

You can set any shutter speed you want even in Av mode. Your meter will show underexposure if you go below the camera recommended one. But it will still let you do that. You can pop up the flash in Av mode too.

Remember, all that Av mode does is take a little bit of effort away from you. Instead of you having to adjust both aperture and shutter speed, it lets you select your aperture of choice and calculates the shutter speed. If you are not happy with the recommended shutter speed, you can always deliberately underexpose and get a faster shutter speed. You can pop up the flash if lighting is low.

One mode I would recommend to you is the P mode. In this mode the camera automatically selects the aperture and shutter speed. The best part is that if you pop the flash up then it automatically adjusts the aperture and shutter speed to match that. Of course it is not very artistic in that you cannot choose to use a wide open aperture or a very slow shutter speed, for instance. But it is fast. If speed is of the essence, then this is the mode to choose. I especially like this mode - most of my pics are shot in P mode.

Last edited by lucifer1881 : 24th May 2011 at 11:57. Reason: Grammar
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Old 24th May 2011, 12:01   #7570
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@Lucifer,

I am sure about that. In my 550D, when I chose the Av mode, the shutter speed control automatically disappears from LCD and I cannot set it up.
Can you confirm that?

I have not tried pop up the flash in Av mode. I will check that out. I have not used the P mode. (M all the time). Will try that out.

Last edited by ampere : 24th May 2011 at 12:11.
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Old 24th May 2011, 12:10   #7571
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@Lucifer,

I am sure about that. In my 550D, when I chose the Av mode, the shutter speed control automatically disappears from LCD and I cannot set it up.
Can you confirm that?

Though I have tried pop up the flash. I will check that out. I have not used the P mode. (M all the time). Will try that out.
There is an Av button at the back of your camera. Press that button and then move the wheel located near the shutter release button. You will be able to control the shutter speed this way. When you do not press the Av button, the wheel changes the aperture. With the Av button pressed, the wheel changes the shutter speed.
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Old 24th May 2011, 12:26   #7572
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Aperture mode also helps you concentrate more on composition and saving your time on setting all the values manually.
Very true. Av or Tv mode allows you to concentrate on shooting photographs rather than tweaking the setting in the Camera. As far as you are aware of how the different variables shutter speed/aperture/iso/metering mode will affect the final picture, there's no need to use M mode, unless there are very specific reasons to do so.

I think there's a prevalent logical fallacy that to be a pro, one needs to use only M mode only.


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While using M mode, it takes atleast a couple of test shots for me to get to the right exposure setting, so I keep this only when I have the leisure of time.
Why should it take couple of shots to get the right exposure, unless you are experimenting? Camera is going to meter in the same way as it does for Av or Tv mode.
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Old 24th May 2011, 12:51   #7573
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I use M mode 100% of the time, I feel it is not the time consuming but getting used to it. I do not have to search for the buttons to set Aperture, Exposure or Timer, I just look into view finder and set everything. Usually my aperture is set to 13, because most of the time I shoot landscape
Whoa. You are finding shots sharp because they are small prints. With such a dense sensor, you will actually have diffraction kicking in around F8. So I suggest you shoot landscapes at F8.
The canon lens is extremely sharp at F5.6 onwards, and even at F5.6 at 16mm you will get enormous DOF. Infact the hyperfocal distance will just be a few feet
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Old 24th May 2011, 12:57   #7574
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Originally Posted by lucifer1881 View Post
There is an Av button at the back of your camera. Press that button and then move the wheel located near the shutter release button. You will be able to control the shutter speed this way....
If the cam has front and back control dials, front will control the aperture and back will control the shutter speed by default even if you are in Aperture mode, its just confirming what you said is right. But it might vary model to model. Mine works just that way, no need to press any additional button.

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.....
I think there's a prevalent logical fallacy that to be a pro, one needs to use only M mode only.......
Why should it take couple of shots to get the right exposure, unless you are experimenting?
Its not a logical fallacy but a partial truth. Old school photographers always prefer M mode and I have heard and seen many oldies do that because M mode is as equal as an Auto mode for them through experience. After all they are from the film school generation. I dont know if top professional cameras have all these Aperture, Shutter modes

Couple of shots to judge the output is always required, because all what you judge and predict may not come exactly as it should be. Fine tuning is done through those test shots.

Pawan: Landscape golden number is f/8. Shooting at f/18 does not mean you get sharper images, but it can kill some highlights. You dont need to keep the aperture at f/18 to avoid overexposure, you have ISO, Shutter speed and exposure compensation to take care of that without killing the quality.

Last edited by shajufx : 24th May 2011 at 13:12.
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Old 24th May 2011, 14:05   #7575
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...Its not a logical fallacy but a partial truth. Old school photographers always prefer M mode and I have heard and seen many oldies do that because M mode is as equal as an Auto mode for them through experience. After all they are from the film school generation.
It is not a film vs. digital issue. Old school photographers use M mode because in the olden days the cameras either did not have in-built meters or the in-built meters did not work well. They had to use dedicated meters and then manually set those values in their cameras. Use of M mode today is a hangover of those days.
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I dont know if top professional cameras have all these Aperture, Shutter modes ...
Yes, they do.
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