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Old 28th June 2011, 20:29   #7996
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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Originally Posted by C300 View Post
Are these old Canon MF lenses? I was under impression that they work only in manual mode.
I have used an old MF lens with a canon FD adapter on my 350D but that lens is back in Bangalore. Now a days I use old Nikon mount lenses on my Panasonic G1 with an adapter. It works like a charm on G1 and it meters as well. In both cases, I have used Aperture priority mode and not manual mode.
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Old 28th June 2011, 20:56   #7997
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
D90 does not meter when coupled to Nikkor AI/AIs manual focus lenses. Even stop-down metering is not supported with such lenses on a D90 which has the DOF preview button. Bah!!

Im sorry, I don't get the connection between metering and the DOF button? Yes, Nikon's entry level bodies are crippled because of their need for AFS only glass for full compatibility. But Nikon's logic goes like this - people who have a lot of manual AI/AIS glass are pros who tend to buy the top-end bodies, hence only the pro bodies have historically had the ability to meter with that glass. Folks buying their first SLR usually don't have legacy glass issues. This has been the case since the film body days - there was a time when only the F4 could use old lenses.

Only D200 and above can meter with these fantastic and cheap lenses.

Till six months ago, you'd have been right - only the D300 and above could meter with manual glass. Now, you're wrong, the D7000, which is a $1,200 body meters with AI/AIS lenses.


Pre-AI lenses will not even mount on a D90, but they will mount just fine on a D40 -figure out why

That is wrong - the Nikon F-mount will accept any Nikon glass from any vintage on any Nikon camera (with a few exceptions). I've mounted my 50mm/1.4 from my F2 on my D90 with no problems.


It is sad the way Nikon has shafted its entry level customers, forcing them to buy more expensive bodies (D200 and above) for metering with its superb collection of vintage manual focus lenses.

With the D7000, you have fewer reasons to complain.


The more i use Nikon, the more i admire Pentax and the way it has maintained backward compatibility to the earliest K-mount lenses.

I've never used Pentax but this has never been a limitation in my almost 2 decades of using Nikon. The D7000s metering ability is a big selling point but AF is important to me and most of my glass is AF of some vintage or the other. The ability to AF with all AF lenses is from D90 and above and that is why I recommend people buy only bodies with screw-drive AF because one gets some fantastic deals on AFD glass.


Too late to switch camps without incurring losses...

I wouldn't beat myself up about it. There is a reason why Nikon outsells Pentax.


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Originally Posted by Fordmanchau View Post
okay, thanks!! and how about canon camera's like 550D and 1100D.
I was getting a good deal for D90, 47.5k for D90 with 18-105 mm lens. But somehow I held myself back from transacting.
Looks like it has to be a canon then.

AFAIK Canon does not work with their old FD mount glass. When Canon went AF they changed their entire mount to EOS. The two aren't compatible. Nikon has never changed the F-mount.
47.5k is a very good price for the D90 kit. It is a very capable camera and you are getting some great deals on it after the introduction of the D7000.


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Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
Sorry No idea about Canon, since its off my radar. Iam a nikon-user and a pentax-fan

Unless you are an odd-ball like me hell bent of aquiring ONLY vintage MF lenses instead of the latest and greatest tech from Nikon, D90 is a fantastic cam.

So don't let this limitation alone put you off.

Ask yourself this - are you ever going to buy lenses made when you were still going ga-ga and goo-goo and crapping in your diapers?

If not, go ahead with the D90 for its well-documented merits.
Well said and I agree with you completely - the D7000 seems to be targeted at users like you.
Do keep in mind though that a lot has changed from the MF days - the coatings, the colors, the abilities. The 18-200 VR would have been impossible in the earlier days. Despite its limitations, it in now my regular lens, especially for travel, and has become a favorite.
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Old 28th June 2011, 22:50   #7998
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Default Rumor: Nikon D4 and D400 coming this August

Rumor: Nikon D4 and D400 coming this August

It seems that there will be a huge announcement by Nikon coming your way this August, where it will cater for the new Nikon D4 and D400 DSLR cameras. There might even be a Nikon D700 replacement which will be announced – although many suspect that will happen at later date, so much so that 2012 has been thrown into the ring. Nikon enthusiasts might not be too thrilled to hear this, although it does make sense considering historical records that showed the Nikon D3 was announced alongside the D300 back in August 2007. Being an extremely methodical company, if the D3 and D300 pro level DSLRs are riding on a 4-year life cycle, the D700 ought to see a replacement sometime next year since it was announced in the same year as the Beijing Summer Olympics were held – 2008.

Nikon also has the tendency to announce higher end models before using similar technology in lower end versions, so it also makes sense for the Nikon D700 replacement to come out with a better technology after the D4. If new Nikon DSLRs are coming out next year, don’t you think that it is high time you started to save money for them ?

Source: Rumor: Nikon D4 and D400 coming this August | Ubergizmo
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Old 28th June 2011, 23:21   #7999
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

@StarScream -

>> "Im sorry, I don't get the connection between metering and the DOF button?"
There are lots of resources online that explains the technical details.

>> "Yes, Nikon's entry level bodies are crippled because of their need for AFS only glass for full compatibility"
This "need" is an artificially introduced handicap. All that's required for the base models to meter with MF lenses is the provision of a metering prong in cam body (as it exists in D200 and above) that mechanically links the body to lens. Nikon deliberately removed it from all bodies below D200 (now D7000)

Also, the same coupling can be achieved electronically as well, as this D40 user has proved - D40

He went ahead and conducted a brain surgery on his D40 to get full metering support with ALL nikkor lenses ever made.

Video of D40's behaviour after the brain surgery.

Part 1 -
Part 2 -

If he can do it, why not Nikon?

So, the "cripping" you mentioned is a pure marketing decision.



>> "But Nikon's logic goes like this - people who have a lot of manual AI/AIS glass are pros who tend to buy the top-end bodies"

Skewed logic, at best.
Pentax/Canon does not think this way, thankfully.
An elderly gent who enjoyed the best of Pentax optics decades ago as an enthusiast can safely gift his grandson his precious lenses with the assurance that they will continue to be enjoyed in the same manner on his grandson's latest entry-level Pentax DLSR. What satisfaction for both parties involved!

A nikon grandfather would probably throw away his collection in to the garbage bin. Sigh!


>> "Folks buying their first SLR usually don't have legacy glass issues."
Wrong assumption. Suppose an elderly hobbyist used to a Nikon EM body (an amateurish, plastic-bodied Nikon film SLR, considered bottom of the heap during its day) with AI/AIs lenses upgrades to a bare-bones D40 (a natural upgrade from film to digital for his level of sophistication, since he will not be used to manual exposure anyway on EM). What happens? He suddenly finds his lens collection unusable. Ofcourse, Nikon "warned" him of this fact.

Would you ask such a gent to go buy a very expensive D7000/D200 or above. That's basically what Nikon does.


>> "This has been the case since the film body days - there was a time when only the F4 could use old lenses"
Nikon FE/FM could meter with every lens created by Nikon (both pre-AI and AI; AIs wasn't yet introduced during FE/FM days). Backward compatibility broke when Nikon FE2 was introduced; this was because of the mechanical impossibility of mounting pre-AIs on FE2.


>> "the D7000, which is a $1,200 body meters with AI/AIS lenses."
And how many of us can afford a D7000
If you browse this thread, most of the queries are for D3100 and D5100 and comparisons to bodies in other systems.
Point here is not to find which body meters with old glass. It is about Nikons failure to maintain backward compatibility when it could have been easily achieved. They just turned blood-sucking leaches listening to some bean-counter churning out figures in Yen.


>> " I've mounted my 50mm/1.4 from my F2 on my D90 with no problems. "
Is that lens non-AI and does it look like this? Nikon Nikkor-S Auto 50mm f/1.4
If so it must have been AI'd.
Coz without AI-ing, mounting a pre-AI lens on D90 will damage the body. Its a confirmed fact. But such lens can be safely mounted on a D40/40x/60.

Pre AI and the D90: Nikon SLR Lens Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
http://www.flickr.com/groups/365610@...7606979156690/
Can one use old lenses with a D90? - Steve's Digicams Forums


>> "There is a reason why Nikon outsells Pentax."
True, and it has nothing to do with optics and everything to do with the enormous war chest Nikon has to fight marketing battles.
And also due to the fact that Pentax doesn't feel the need to expand to emerging markets like India. Sigh! Sigh!!

Last edited by WindRide : 28th June 2011 at 23:32.
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Old 29th June 2011, 18:33   #8000
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
@StarScream -

>> "Im sorry, I don't get the connection between metering and the DOF button?"
There are lots of resources online that explains the technical details.

WindRide, Im not asking for technical details - I understand my cameras very well. I don't understand your logic of mentioning both in the same breath.


>> "Yes, Nikon's entry level bodies are crippled because of their need for AFS only glass for full compatibility"
This "need" is an artificially introduced handicap. All that's required for the base models to meter with MF lenses is the provision of a metering prong in cam body (as it exists in D200 and above) that mechanically links the body to lens. Nikon deliberately removed it from all bodies below D200 (now D7000)

Also, the same coupling can be achieved electronically as well, as this D40 user has proved - D40

He went ahead and conducted a brain surgery on his D40 to get full metering support with ALL nikkor lenses ever made.

If he can do it, why not Nikon?

So, the "cripping" you mentioned is a pure marketing decision.

And I don't deny it. Nikon considers it a high-end feature - if the D40 did everything the D300 did, why would anyone buy the more expensive body?


>> "But Nikon's logic goes like this - people who have a lot of manual AI/AIS glass are pros who tend to buy the top-end bodies"

Skewed logic, at best.
Pentax/Canon does not think this way, thankfully.
An elderly gent who enjoyed the best of Pentax optics decades ago as an enthusiast can safely gift his grandson his precious lenses with the assurance that they will continue to be enjoyed in the same manner on his grandson's latest entry-level Pentax DLSR. What satisfaction for both parties involved!

A nikon grandfather would probably throw away his collection in to the garbage bin. Sigh!

ditto about your logic. Canon changed the entire mount so what compatibility are you talking about? And your hypothetical example of a grandfather and his grandson buying the same camera brand 50 years apart is just that - hypothetical. How many people actually think like that? Not to mention in the age of APS-C sensors your focal lengths would all be messed up.


>> "Folks buying their first SLR usually don't have legacy glass issues."
Wrong assumption. Suppose an elderly hobbyist used to a Nikon EM body (an amateurish, plastic-bodied Nikon film SLR, considered bottom of the heap during its day) with AI/AIs lenses upgrades to a bare-bones D40 (a natural upgrade from film to digital for his level of sophistication, since he will not be used to manual exposure anyway on EM). What happens? He suddenly finds his lens collection unusable. Ofcourse, Nikon "warned" him of this fact.

Would you ask such a gent to go buy a very expensive D7000/D200 or above. That's basically what Nikon does.

Again hypothetical - how many people go straight from the EM to a DSLR missing all the steps in between?

>> "This has been the case since the film body days - there was a time when only the F4 could use old lenses"
Nikon FE/FM could meter with every lens created by Nikon (both pre-AI and AI; AIs wasn't yet introduced during FE/FM days). Backward compatibility broke when Nikon FE2 was introduced; this was because of the mechanical impossibility of mounting pre-AIs on FE2.

>> "the D7000, which is a $1,200 body meters with AI/AIS lenses."
And how many of us can afford a D7000

My point WindFire was that the functionality of metering with Ai glass is moving down the product range. Hence it ain't as bad as in the film days when in the entire product range the F4 was the only body that could do it. Obviously, the FE, FE2, FM weren't the same generation. However, again from personal experience I have used pre-AI glass on an FM2 and an FM3A without issue.

If you browse this thread, most of the queries are for D3100 and D5100 and comparisons to bodies in other systems.
Point here is not to find which body meters with old glass. It is about Nikons failure to maintain backward compatibility when it could have been easily achieved. They just turned blood-sucking leaches listening to some bean-counter churning out figures in Yen.

Personally, I think Nikon has done a better job of maintaining backward compatibility than other brands and I refer mostly to Canon. I don't know about Pentax.


>> " I've mounted my 50mm/1.4 from my F2 on my D90 with no problems. "
Is that lens non-AI and does it look like this? Nikon Nikkor-S Auto 50mm f/1.4
If so it must have been AI'd.
Coz without AI-ing, mounting a pre-AI lens on D90 will damage the body. Its a confirmed fact. But such lens can be safely mounted on a D40/40x/60.

Pre AI and the D90: Nikon SLR Lens Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Flickr: Discussing D90 - looks promising for pre-AI in No metering lenses on Nikon DSLRs
Can one use old lenses with a D90? - Steve's Digicams Forums

Yes, that is the lens and it is not Ai'd. It mounted fine on a D90. Camera worked perfect with AFS and AFD lenses afterward. The camera manual is silent about using pre-AI glass.


>> "There is a reason why Nikon outsells Pentax."
True, and it has nothing to do with optics and everything to do with the enormous war chest Nikon has to fight marketing battles.
And also due to the fact that Pentax doesn't feel the need to expand to emerging markets like India. Sigh! Sigh!!
So who is better? The company that sells its entire range in India, giving consumers the choice or the one that doesn't bother? Another point that you missed in my previous post was that I recommend people only buy Nikon from D90 and above. I've always maintained that a big selling point of Nikon was the ability to use old glass, especially AF-D lenses. The entry level bodies negate that advantage.

Last edited by StarScream : 29th June 2011 at 18:37.
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Old 29th June 2011, 19:54   #8001
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

I am not getting a clue about this discussion. Are you guys suggesting we should sell our DSLRs and get a Point & Shoot ? Friends, these long posts are very annoying, there are many poor souls like me who check the posts through mobiles. By the time I scroll and scroll and reach the bottom, I forget what was the top

Guys who have purchased accessories from Hong Kong through Ebay, whats the maximum time taken for a normal shipping ? I have waited 14 days for a registered airmail that contains 2 flashes, 1 trigger and 3 receivers. Tracking is stuck at Kolkata on 24th June. I am thinking of a hunger strike in front of my post office from tomorrow. If any yoga guys are around here, you are welcome to join me
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Old 29th June 2011, 20:26   #8002
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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I am not getting a clue about this discussion. Are you guys suggesting we should sell our DSLRs and get a Point & Shoot ? Friends, these long posts are very annoying, there are many poor souls like me who check the posts through mobiles.
Exactly, this is the trouble with buying Nikon or Canon. Switch to Olympus or Pentax or Sony, and you can completely ignore these fights.
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Old 29th June 2011, 20:38   #8003
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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Originally Posted by shajufx View Post
I am not getting a clue about this discussion. Are you guys suggesting we should sell our DSLRs and get a Point & Shoot ? Friends, these long posts are very annoying, there are many poor souls like me who check the posts through mobiles. By the time I scroll and scroll and reach the bottom, I forget what was the top
Not at all - my limited attempt was to correct some wrong information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Exactly, this is the trouble with buying Nikon or Canon. Switch to Olympus or Pentax or Sony, and you can completely ignore these fights.
This was not a canon vs. nikon it fight at all - if anything it was love-hate Nikon.
As far as I'm concerned this discussion is over.
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Old 29th June 2011, 20:57   #8004
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Where did I say it was a Canon vs Nikon fight?
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Old 29th June 2011, 21:01   #8005
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I am lusting over the D7000 right now, thinking of selling my D90 and buying it. Not ready to move to a full frame Nikon yet - plus I like the added reach that a DX format brings me for wildlife. No, I can't justify investing in a superior lens (e.g. 200-400mm f/4) to SWMBO yet ("you are spending multiple years worth of our child's school fees on some bloody lens! We can even buy a hatchback for that money!!!')

Would anyone know what kind of price I can get for a well maintained D90 body (bought from the US in early 2010), and where I can sell it (apart from ebay)?

During my recent trip to Pench, Kanha and Bandhavgarh, I felt the need for better high ISO performance, and a more robust body with better weather sealing.

I agree about the 'photographer having a far greater impact than kit' line of thought. But, I also know that if one has a good camera and especially a good lens, one can get pretty nice photos, if one is decently capable. If a photographer meets minimum capability standards, how do the photographer capability vs. kit capability graphs look vs. image quality? I suspect with better technology, the kit plays an increasingly important role.

Analogy: mixed martial arts. If one has good enough skills, size usually wins over superior technique. Note that good enough is key here.
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Old 29th June 2011, 21:20   #8006
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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I am lusting over the D7000 right now, thinking of selling my D90 and buying it........
Buddy, I sold my D90 and got a D700. Interestingly the man who sold me the D700 bought a D7000 !!! Our member here Riju (rjstyles) went to buy a D7000 and ended up buying a D300s. I am just giving you the overall picture what I have seen. Let me know if you want to talk to my seller (Ahmedabad) or Riju (Bangalore), will give you their numbers through PM. Hope I have confused you enough

Selling is a breeze. Post it on our classifieds here, BPC (Bangalore photography club) and JJ Mehta forum buy&sell pages. It will go within few days.
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Old 29th June 2011, 22:12   #8007
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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Originally Posted by shajufx View Post
Guys who have purchased accessories from Hong Kong through Ebay, whats the maximum time taken for a normal shipping ? I have waited 14 days for a registered airmail that contains 2 flashes, 1 trigger and 3 receivers. Tracking is stuck at Kolkata on 24th June. I am thinking of a hunger strike in front of my post office from tomorrow. If any yoga guys are around here, you are welcome to join me
I bought Wireless Flash Trigger + 3 Receivers on 12th June, dispatched on 14th June and delivered today.

One suggestion to all of us who buy from dx or any other HK seller or even ebay.com (HK sellers), try to split yours products to avoid customs. Shipping is free (rather included in the price) anyways. Like in this case, trigger+Receivers could be bought separately and once they are dispatched then probably flashes (2 flashes in 2 different orders )

Hope you guys got what I am trying to say.

Last edited by mukeshgoel : 29th June 2011 at 22:19.
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Old 29th June 2011, 23:34   #8008
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Guys who have purchased accessories from Hong Kong through Ebay, whats the maximum time taken for a normal shipping ?
Seconding what Mukesh has shared already, the customs check at Bangalore has become much more strict these days, I talked to the new in-charge and he says anything below 10K marked gift is free of duty and all else pay duty, he is right and doing his duty and as such can't question that intention, I did ask him though about goods which are marked as gift by seller and valued down, no answer to be found as usual apart from a contended smile..

To come to the real question, it has taken some of my purchases more than a month to arrive from HK, some arrived within 2 weeks as well; if your shipment has reached India, then you are at least sure that the seller has shipped indeed and it is only a matter of time and a few pestering calls to the customs department. Good luck on that, prepare to pay the duty though, 27% on goods+shipping+insurance.. nice calculation!

I was also amazed once that after all duty agreed to be paid and all necessary documents submitted to the customs office in person, that it took exactly five working days for my shipment to be cleared for delivery and forwarded to the post office.. the post office is just one floor down in the same building.. efficiency at its best show
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Old 30th June 2011, 02:14   #8009
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Originally Posted by shajufx View Post
I got a chance to try ISO-6400 few days back. I would love to see similar ISO shots from other DSLRs to have an idea on how different this actually is (ignore all the reviews and paid opinions by 100s of 'so-called experts'). Here the ambient lighting is very very low, I could get only 1/30 sec at f/4 (therefore the eyes are not tack sharp). It would have been better at f/1.4 but would blur the background completely. No corrections other than re-sizing !
Attachment 567618
Thanks to my in-house model
That's terrific output at ISO-6400. Here's one taken with my D7000 - ISO-6400, f/4 at 1/60. Noisy.

Name:  JGP_2875.jpg
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Old 30th June 2011, 08:51   #8010
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

I Delhi, the customs is collected by the post office which deals exclusively with imports. My son ordered equipment worth $2,500/. He went to the post office, paid duty got the consignment released and brought it home. It seems that if you do not pursue, your consignment may be cooling its heels for weeks at the post office as they will take time to
- open it
- calculate duty, get it approved by customs officer of appropriate rank (seniority increases with duty amount)
- send you an intimation

It is better to pay extra and get the consignment through DHL. They collect the duty on delivery. I was surprised when the consignment came home and the delivery boy had a phone based Credit Card reader with him for collecting the duty! After the duty was paid a confirmation SMS came from DHL within five minutes.
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