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Old 23rd July 2012, 22:15   #10171
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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
What I would suggest is start with the humble 18 55 and the 50mm prime.
Play with them for some time before you decide what you actually like to shoot. (Landscapes/Portraits/Wild Life etc)

One lens covering all the range may not be a good idea.
You are right in saying Amp. I won't be getting these lenses as of now. I would only be getting a 35mm prime lens and If I happen to travel, I may get better lenses out there.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 22:27   #10172
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I don't know about 18 300. My comparisons were for 18-200 Canon versus Nikon where the specs are same. But Canon costs about 579 to Nikon's 846. What I would suggest is start with the humble 18 55 and the 50mm prime. Play with them for some time before you decide what you actually like to shoot. (Landscapes/Portraits/Wild Life etc) One lens covering all the range may not be a good idea..
I fully agree with you and can recommend a 11x zoom only if a person is not too fussy about IQ.

One ultra high zoom range lens will do for most people, it gives them what they want and the convenience of not having to change lenses. It all depends on what factor what the person decides is important to him

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If the specs and optical quality are similar, that makes the Canon 18 200 VFM compared to Nikon. When I started even I was in the same dilemma whether to go for all purpose zoom. But some how decided other wise. However I did not repent. I saved and later got a 70-200 F4 IS L and a 10-22 based on my need
I sold off my 28-300 FX lens as it was soft after 200mm and bought a beautiful prime after paying the difference.

Just be aware that Canon may discontinue the old 18-200 as it can cannibalise the newer version.

I am not sure but I hear conflicting reports about Nikon lenses being more expensive than Canon. Some fora claim the reverse. I think it is on a model to model basis. For e.g. I am certain that the next version of the Nikon 24-70, when ever it's released, will be more expensive than its predecessor (about USD 1,887 now) and priced in line with Canon's new 24-70.

Last edited by R2D2 : 23rd July 2012 at 22:32. Reason: typo
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Old 24th July 2012, 05:12   #10173
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People who are making those comments are only thinking Nikon V1/J1, which uses a much smaller sensor. Rest of the mirrorless world uses the same sensor as their dSLR counterpart, so why can't they match their dSLR cousins who use the same sensor? The trouble is rest of the mirrorless camera world is not visible to them since those are neither Canon nor Nikon.

But now Canon has made a very smart move. They didn't take the garden path lead by Nikon with their tiny sensor. Instead, they are offering the APS-C size sensor, same as their entry/mid level dSLRs, a path taken by every other mirror less make except Nikon.

This changes the game significantly. Now the Canikon crowd has only Canon to look towards in the mirror less world. Nikon V1/J1 with its tiny sensor can no longer stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Canon in the mirror less world.
AFAIK only Canon/Sony/Samsung has aps-c sensors, rest are a sensors with 2x crop factor.

At this moment both Canon/Nikon are just *ME-Too* candidates, Canon a little less, Canon obviously made a better choice in terms of sensor but still missed the marks that should have been there, viewfinder, faster AF, better grip. But despite all these niggles, Canon still has the biggest fan base so it WILL sell like hot cakes.

But the thing that bothers me is Nikon/Pentax took a huge risk, just like Fuji but Canon has been hesitant to take risks and just came to party with *me-too* attitude.


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That will really piss off people who invested in the 1st gen Nikon cameras.

That is why I am just sitting back and watching the scene. If Canon comes out with a fast EOS M zoom starting at 15mm by next year, I might switch over to EOS M family. As much as I love my Olympus Camera/lens collection, I am getting really tired of not being able to sell any of my old gear.
You should try selling over ebay international. Olympus gear (m43 mount) is selling quite quickly. I would not mind some Oly glass myself.


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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Of course that applies only to DSLRs with cropped sensors.

+1

That Nikon V1 was a nice try by Nikon, but not good enough. Canon using an APS-C sensor in their mirrorless camera was a real smart move. But I don't recall a EV - only a monitor which can be a drawback in bright sunlight.
Canon has done 3 smart moves, EF adapter as a package, better implementation of touchscreen and aps-c sensor. But then again there are few things lacking.

Even Canon 1100D is almost half the price with single lens kit, or with newly released 40mm pancake it would be same price. Way more controls and OVF and built in flash. At 150g heavier, neither are pocket able though.


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I wont be surprised if Nikon too ups the game in the 2nd generation Nikon 1 cameras. That's the good thing about mirrorless - exciting because the format is evolving so fast while the downside is loss of value over a short period of time.
Evolving is good, loss of value isn't. And to highlight the consumers for m43 market, I just bought a Panasonic G2 twin lens kit with less than 100 shutter count for $150 AUD, also bought a GH2 recently got $250. Both of these sold for $800+ themselves less than a yr ago. Compare it to Nikon D90 is still selling secondhand for $400AUD+ and its much older camera. People are buying these as impulse and then not using them, but this makes it good for me, I can get gear cheaper. OFF TOPIC, I also picked up 135mm f2 DC in brand new condition for half the price.


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DSLRs are comparatively stodgy and revolutionary changes are few and far between.
Marketing 101, if you can make money from same thing then keep on doing it. Consider OLED tv's, Discovery channel broad casted a documentary on OLED panels back in 1998, assuming it was made in 1997. That is 15yrs ago when researchers had 40"+ OLED panels ready. Still we are buying LCD`s and Plasma`s because we are being fed one marketing line "Too hard/expensive to make OLED panels", basically to end the story, marketing will keep saying its too expensive to make and hence we will need to sell them for that much higher price.


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Aren't these like budget lenses? I am not familiar with Nikon lenses, but their zoom range alone is making me suspicious. Good lenses rarely have more than 5X zoom range.
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I wont call them budget as the 18-200 is nearly Rs 54K (USD 850 MSRP in the US), and the 18-300 will be more expensive (USD 1000 MSRP) in the US. Their IQ is acceptable in line with the convenience ie zoom range they offer
These are expensive lenses with budget IQ. I would rather suggest Nikon 55-200 mm F4.0-5.6 ASFDX VR N, Its an amazing lens at a ridiculous budget price. IQ is almost as good as 70-200mm VR1 but AF is a bit slow compared to it. But AF is still plenty good. 50-300 is supposed to be good, but I have no experience with it.

I always consider extreme zooms as a safe alternative when one can only travel with 1 lens and is physically not able to change lenses in the field (dust storms, snow storms, etc).
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Old 24th July 2012, 11:11   #10174
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These are expensive lenses with budget IQ. I would rather suggest Nikon 55-200 mm F4.0-5.6 ASFDX VR N, Its an amazing lens at a ridiculous budget price. IQ is almost as good as 70-200mm VR1 but AF is a bit slow compared to it. But AF is still plenty good. 50-300 is supposed to be good, but I have no experience with it.

I always consider extreme zooms as a safe alternative when one can only travel with 1 lens and is physically not able to change lenses in the field (dust storms, snow storms, etc).
Very informative discussion. Has been a eye opener for me. Let me try with 55-300 lenses instead of getting expensive 18-300. I would mostly end up with 35mm prime lens and 55-300 initially.
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Old 24th July 2012, 11:17   #10175
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Originally Posted by rajb3125 View Post
Evolving is good, loss of value isn't. And to highlight the consumers for m43 market, I just bought a Panasonic G2 twin lens kit with less than 100 shutter count for $150 AUD, also bought a GH2 recently got $250. Both of these sold for $800+ themselves less than a yr ago. Compare it to Nikon D90 is still selling secondhand for $400AUD+ and its much older camera. People are buying these as impulse and then not using them, but this makes it good for me, I can get gear cheaper. OFF TOPIC, I also picked up 135mm f2 DC in brand new condition for half the price.).
This is one of the main reasons I have not bitten into the EVIL pie however tempting it may be. I find the Oly OM-D very tempting but, I resist. Besides I really can't afford to maintain 2 camera systems.

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Marketing 101, if you can make money from same thing then keep on doing it....basically to end the story, marketing will keep saying its too expensive to make and hence we will need to sell them for that much higher price..).
It is more than just the Marketing guys who say 'why change something that sells'. DSLRs especially the semi pro and pro bodies have always had cutting edge technologies especially primarily in the sensor - MP and low light performance and in the AF module. Changes to these will be slow as tech takes time to evolve. For e.g. the 2009 D3s was a refresh of the 2007 D3 while the 2012 D4 is an evolution - the next generation so to speak - of the D3/D3s series. The D3x is an outlier and its successor is the far cheaper and dare I say better (in pic quality and frame rate) D800.

Also, an EV camera should be cheaper to make than an OV simply because there are fewer precision mechanical parts (no reflex mirror, secondary mirror, prism, mirror balancer, and what have you) to manufacture, assemble and fine tune for correct operation. Fewer parts & easier assembly means lower costs.

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Originally Posted by rajb3125 View Post
I always consider extreme zooms as a safe alternative when one can only travel with 1 lens and is physically not able to change lenses in the field (dust storms, snow storms, etc).
+1 and I think that's what the 'premium' is for - convenience offered over image quality.

Last edited by R2D2 : 24th July 2012 at 11:18.
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Old 24th July 2012, 12:33   #10176
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AFAIK only Canon/Sony/Samsung has aps-c sensors, rest are a sensors with 2x crop factor.
You guys can never get over that part. The gap between 1.6x and 2x crop factor is too much to bridge.
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Old 24th July 2012, 21:28   #10177
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The D800 - finally, finally

After a long long wait, today I got my second camera body and that too a FX. The Nikon D800. Though this hobby/profession is supposed to be a bottomless pit, as of know my photographic gear seems to be complete. My signature below lists all my rides & the photographic gear.

No, I don't want the rumoured D400.

Let me post the first pictures:

The Box

The DSLR Thread-7566.jpg

The contents and the bubble-sheet shrouded beauty

The DSLR Thread-7567.jpg

The bubble-sheet removed and in a transparent plastic bag

The DSLR Thread-7568.jpg

The unveiling

The DSLR Thread-7569.jpg

In all its glory

The DSLR Thread-7572.jpg

The battery is being charged currently and the manual will be read, re-read and re-re-read.

Sample shots would follow later.

Last edited by gd1418 : 24th July 2012 at 21:30.
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Old 24th July 2012, 21:41   #10178
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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
The D800 - finally, finally

After a long long wait, today I got my second camera body and that too a FX. The Nikon D800. Though this hobby/profession is supposed to be a bottomless pit, as of know my photographic gear seems to be complete. My signature below lists all my rides & the photographic gear.

No, I don't want the rumoured D400.
Congratulations on D800 buy, Indeed its a great camera. Looking forward towards pictures from D800 on The Official Non-Auto image thread.
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Old 24th July 2012, 21:49   #10179
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You guys can never get over that part. The gap between 1.6x and 2x crop factor is too much to bridge.
More than the crop, its about noise in extreme conditions. I have taken 30s ISO 3200 exposures on the Nikon D7000, which are pretty clean. In contrast, such an exposure on the GH1 etc., you are looking at too much noise.
OF course, not many shoot in these conditions, but for those who do, the larger the better. I would love a 8MP ultra low noise APS-C sensor!
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Old 24th July 2012, 22:01   #10180
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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
The D800 - finally, finally After a long long wait, today I got my second camera body and that too a FX. The Nikon D800. Though this hobby/profession is supposed to be a bottomless pit, as of know my photographic gear seems to be complete.
Congratulations GD sir. I am sure you will treat us to some fabulous wildlife photos with this camera. The unboxing photos were really enjoyable.

Get good SD and CF cards for it. Only go in for those recommended in the manual (page 434) Sandisk/Panasonic/Lexar/Toshiba. Of these Sandisk is the most common in India while the others are pretty difficult to get or not available, especially Lexar.
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Old 24th July 2012, 22:08   #10181
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BTW the 18-300 is listed at INR 72950 in India v/s USD 1000 in the USA. If you can get it from the US it will be great as Nikon offers international warranties on lens and accessories (local on camera body).
Some folks are saying that the 18-300 has equivalent IQ to 18-105 and 70-300 VR at their respective ranges. If really so, I am tempted to sell both these lenses and go for the 18-300. But I am skeptical - there must be compromises with the 18-300 lens,

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Originally Posted by rajb3125 View Post
These are expensive lenses with budget IQ. I would rather suggest Nikon 55-200 mm F4.0-5.6 ASFDX VR N, Its an amazing lens at a ridiculous budget price. IQ is almost as good as 70-200mm VR1 but AF is a bit slow compared to it. But AF is still plenty good. 50-300 is supposed to be good, but I have no experience with it.
70-300mm VR I believe is supposed to be better than the 55-200 and 50-300. One of those zooms that give the best value for money. Note: I haven't used 55-200 or 50-300 - just read about them on forums. I do use the 70-300.

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The D800 - finally, finally
Congratulations Mr. Guru Dutt!! Now you have taken the game to the next level

How did you manage to get it so fast?

Looking forward to the initial pictures and your feedback w.r.t. wildlife. Btw, I read some interesting stuff from Brad Hill - a nature photographer. Google D800 and his name.

I will probably decide between the D800 and the D400 (if and when it gets launched).

@ tsk1979: how do you find the D7000 focusing for action shots? A couple of folks I was shooting with in Tadoba complained that sometimes there are issues. Though I suspect that perhaps they didn't fully optimize the settings for action/wildlife.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 24th July 2012 at 22:11.
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Old 24th July 2012, 22:10   #10182
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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
The D800 - finally, finally

After a long long wait, today I got my second camera body and that too a FX. The Nikon D800. Though this hobby/profession is supposed to be a bottomless pit, as of know my photographic gear seems to be complete. My signature below lists all my rides & the photographic gear.
Congratulations on your new acquisition. The unveiling pictures itself are very exciting indeed.

Would you mind sharing some details on your purchase? The source and the price?


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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
I will probably decide between the D800 and the D400 (if and when it gets launched).
Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I have read, D600 is the one which is rumored right? Is D400 is also around?

Last edited by rameshnanda : 24th July 2012 at 22:16.
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Old 24th July 2012, 22:14   #10183
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Thanks R2D2. But this looks now very doubtful with today's SC judgement.

I shall be hunting for these cards:

CompactFlash Memory Card Extreme Pro 600x UDMA

Extreme Pro SDHC Flash Memory Card

My camera guy in Chandni Chowk has Lexar cards.


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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post

Congratulations GD sir. I am sure you will treat us to some fabulous wildlife photos with this camera. The unboxing photos were really enjoyable.

Get good SD and CF cards for it. Only go in for those recommended in the manual (page 434) Sandisk/Panasonic/Lexar/Toshiba. Of these Sandisk is the most common in India while the others are pretty difficult to get or not available, especially Lexar.
Thank you Nilanjan. It wasn't fast; had been after it for quite sometime and suffered some loss as Nikon raised the price twice.

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Congratulations Mr. Guru Dutt!! Now you have taken the game to the next level

How did you manage to get it so fast?

Looking forward to the initial pictures and your feedback w.r.t. wildlife. Btw, I read some interesting stuff from Brad Hill - a nature photographer. Google D800 and his name.

I will probably decide between the D800 and the D400 (if and when it gets launched).
Thanks Ramesh. I would rather not like to share the purchase & pricing details. Hope you understand.

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Congratulations on your new acquisition. The unveiling pictures itself are very exciting indeed.

Would you mind sharing some details on your purchase? The source and the price?

Last edited by gd1418 : 24th July 2012 at 22:19.
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Old 24th July 2012, 22:23   #10184
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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
The D800 - finally, finally...
Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
...treat us to some fabulous wildlife photos with this camera.
@gd1418: Now look what you've done. SC thought you bought a field gun, not a camera. Supreme Court orders ban on tourism in core areas of tiger reserves | NDTV.com. Looks like we just might not get to see too many of those beautiful wildlife shots from your camera any more now.
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Old 24th July 2012, 22:42   #10185
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Thanks R2D2. But this looks now very doubtful with today's SC judgement..
Ooops! I totally forgot about the SC judgement. That's sad and we'll miss your and Nilanjanrays tiger photos. :(

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I shall be hunting for these cards:

CompactFlash Memory Card Extreme Pro 600x UDMA, Extreme Pro SDHC Flash Memory Card My camera guy in Chandni Chowk has Lexar cards.
Sandisks are most common, for 600x try the Sandisk Extreme Pro range. IF you shoot RAW + JPEG keep the RAW writes to CF which is much faster (even compared with a 90MBps SD card) and JPG to the SD card. This is unless you want to keep one card in 'overflow' or 'backup' mode.

I'd have liked to try out Lexar. According to what I read most people prefer Sandisk to Lexars. AFAIK Lexar isn't available here officially.

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Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I have read, D600 is the one which is rumored right? Is D400 is also around?
Both the D400 and D600 are rumoured to be announced in Sept '12. As of now the D600 seems more certain than the D400.

If both are introduced it would be a great show by Nikon - 4 FX and 2 DX bodies in one year.

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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Some folks are saying that the 18-300 has equivalent IQ to 18-105 and 70-300 VR at their respective ranges. If really so, I am tempted to sell both these lenses and go for the 18-300. But I am skeptical - there must be compromises with the 18-300 lens,
Of course there will be a compromise with a 16.6x lens. But these super zooms are targetted more towards travel/tourist photos where carrying multiple lenses is a drawback for most travellers and changing lenses is difficult in dust/rain/snow fall. The 18-200 was pretty well accepted but do wait for real life reviews of the 18-300 before you buy it. ALSO consider that if you shift to FX (D800 as you mention above) this lens will be an unnecessary purchase. Might as well go for a FX lens like a 300mm F4, works well on FX and DX, for less than the price of a 18-300 zoom!
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