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Old 18th February 2013, 20:44   #11401
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
As I said shareholding patterns make it difficult to deduce whether or not are not a particular company is a part of a particular group. Here is a 'FAQ' on their site which talks about what is a Mitsu group company:

http://www.mitsubishi.com/e/group/about.html

I am sure you will agree Encyclopaedia Britannica and the Mitsubishi group website would not make fundamental errors about a company being a part of the Mitsu group when it is not.

Anyways, go here:

http://www.mitsubishi.com/php/users/...rch.php?lang=1

This is the list as of Feb 2013 i.e current. There are 616 member companies in the group. Click on 'N' - you will see Nikon listed in a group of 45 companies. Click on the 'Nikon' and it will take you to the Co. profile with Nikon Corp's website URL.

Also attached is a screenshot where I have highlighted the names.
Let me explain the basics of a group structure as it is understood and accepted around the world, excluding oriental mysticism. A parent-subsidiary relationship exists when the parent company exercises control over the subsidiary monetarily and/or through management control. The financial control is exercised through a stake holding. Management can be active or passive but the common thread is control.

As I have sufficiently demonstrated Mitsubishi exercises no control over Nikon, according to the accepted finance definition of group structures. This is where shareholding is critical to decide who owns what. Looking beyond the obvious and corporate spiel has its advantages.

The link of how Mitsubishi describes group companies is enlightening. Some points that stood out -

Is Mitsubishi a single company?
Mitsubishi is a community that consists of a multitude of independent companies.

Do the Mitsubishi companies have some kind of decision-making body that determines overall policy for the companies?
No. But all the companies honor the Three Principles prescribed by Koyata Iwasaki, the Fourth and final president of the old Mitsubishi organization: 1. Corporate Social Responsibility, 2. Integrity and Fairness, and 3. Global Understanding through Business.

They obviously describe a group in terms of a shared history and goals - that is not standard or accepted by any stretch of imagination. You can choose to believe them or look at the facts, which show Nikon to be an independent company.
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Old 18th February 2013, 21:32   #11402
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Guys, let's get back to world of DSLR which we newbies understand, shall we. :-)
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Old 18th February 2013, 21:46   #11403
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They obviously describe a group in terms of a shared history and goals - that is not standard or accepted by any stretch of imagination. You can choose to believe them or look at the facts, which show Nikon to be an independent company.
There's no imagination. Just facts stated on Mitsu's website that Nikon is an independent group company. The Japanese work differently...as Amitk26 very correctly pointed out as a Keiretsu or a Japanese conglomerate. You may be right in the classical financial shareholding and control scheme of things but that's not always how Jap conglomerates function.

So, it is up to you to take that information from Mitsubishi's site at face value (or not) instead of harping on shareholding patterns and/or Financial and Management control in an attempt to disprove Nikon's membership of that group. Your contentions in this particular case are flying in the face of information provided by an authentic and reliable source.

May be you can email the Mitsubishi Group & Nikon Corporation's Mgmt to mention you find content on their website as inaccurate or even misleading and Nikon should NOT be included in the group company list?

I'd rather not carry on debating this group thing any further. It is pointless as Nikon's group membership is there in black and white for me (and any other individual interested in this information) to view.

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Originally Posted by ajay_satpute View Post
Guys, let's get back to world of DSLR which we newbies understand, shall we. :-)
Point taken mate. And you too AmitK26

Last edited by R2D2 : 18th February 2013 at 21:49.
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Old 18th February 2013, 22:11   #11404
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Hi Guys,

I need to pick up Canon 40mm STM lens in Bangalore. Can you help me with contacts details of a few shops as I have recently moved to bangalore and have no clue where to go

Thanks
You can get it from Fotocircle (Jayesh), its around 12K I believe.
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Old 18th February 2013, 23:32   #11405
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

Guys, it is time to put Nikon's parentage discussion to rest. Please get back to technical discussion. - The Support Team
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Old 21st February 2013, 10:51   #11406
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Some news about the Nikon D7100

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-came...-35618193.html

Nikon have a winner there. Its even cheaper than D7000!

Last edited by joslicx : 21st February 2013 at 10:57.
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Old 21st February 2013, 11:25   #11407
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No Low pass filter!
I guess the Fashion photographers will give this one a pass. But for landscapers and wildlife - Wooooo Hoooooo!
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Old 21st February 2013, 13:46   #11408
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With the new 3500DX 51 pt AF mobule that focusses even at F8 (single center point only) and a better metering system this is a good update for the nearly 2.5 year old D7K that was released in Oct 2010. Best part it is about 11% cheaper (@ US MSRP) and has a higher res LCD.

No OLPF means better sharpness for wildlife/landscape shots (Tanveer is delighted! And another trip to Ladakh will have to be planned)

Good one Nikon. And the D400??
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Old 21st February 2013, 13:50   #11409
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If the price mentioned on this page is near about correct, then I personally feel that about 86k INR is way too costly for a DX format camera. Another 20k and you get a FX format camera (Canon 6D). Is it really worth it?

I am no expert, but was just wondering.
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Old 21st February 2013, 13:57   #11410
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Originally Posted by ajay_satpute View Post
If the price mentioned on this page is near about correct, then I personally feel that about 86k INR is way too costly for a DX format camera. Another 20k and you get a FX format camera (Canon 6D). Is it really worth it?

I am no expert, but was just wondering.
86k??

I think the indicated price for D7100 body is $1200 ~ 60k which is very good. Actually as R2D2 said, its about 15% cheaper than D7000 (which is available for around 70k in market with the kit 18-105 lens) so we can expect D7100 for around 60-62k with the kit lens as well?

Canon 6D body only will cost around $2k ~ 1L+ isint it?
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Old 21st February 2013, 14:02   #11411
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
86k??

I think the indicated price for D7100 body is $1200 ~ 60k which is very good. Actually as R2D2 said, its about 15% cheaper than D7000 (which is available for around 70k in market with the kit 18-105 lens) so we can expect D7100 for around 60-62k with the kit lens as well?

Canon 6D body only will cost around $2k ~ 1L+ isint it?
$1,599 with 18-55, and canon 6D is available at 1.1 lacs at Camshot. So was just comparing and thinking that the gap is narrowing gradually.

Last edited by ajay_satpute : 21st February 2013 at 14:04.
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Old 21st February 2013, 14:18   #11412
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$1,599 with 18-55, and canon 6D is available at 1.1 lacs at Camshot. So was just comparing and thinking that the gap is narrowing gradually.
Thats the same fear that was purported in recent discussions on this thread. For DX world, on one hand there is assault from mirrorless cameras and on the other hand there are cheaper full frames like 6D and D600. Theres very little room left for Canikon to differentiate in DX space. D7100 also does not have anything radically great. Its just a very incremental (but logical) update on D7000.

BTW, I have a radical idea. How about somebody coming with a 6MP DX SLR with ultrapixels (on same lines as HTC One). So instead of a 24MP sensor, have bigger size pixels and limit it to 6MP (so individual pixels are 4 times bigger). Can that give us picture quality comparable to full framers say, Canon 1DX? 6MP is good enough for 99.9% users really.

Last edited by joslicx : 21st February 2013 at 14:23.
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Old 21st February 2013, 14:26   #11413
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
86k??

I think the indicated price for D7100 body is $1200 ~ 60k which is very good. Actually as R2D2 said, its about 15% cheaper than D7000 (which is available for around 70k in market with the kit 18-105 lens) so we can expect D7100 for around 60-62k with the kit lens as well?

Canon 6D body only will cost around $2k ~ 1L+ isint it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay_satpute View Post
$1,599 with 18-55, and canon 6D is available at 1.1 lacs at Camshot. So was just comparing and thinking that the gap is narrowing gradually.
Just keep in mind that Nikon has different pricing policies for each market. But if the past is anything to go by - in case of the D4 & D800 they were launched at the SAME prices as the MSRP in the US. Later price revisions in mid 2012 (due to the INR tanking) put the MSRP in India above the MSRP in the US.

The D7000 body is listed at Rs 56K, say approx $1020 at Camshot v/s the MSRP of Rs 64,450, a discount of 13%. Street price wise this is cheaper than the US MSRP of $1350. But US retailers are currently selling it @ $896 till 2nd March on account of the new sales discounts offered by Nikon USA. Even then it is not too much of a difference between India street prices and B&H prices - it is about $124 (Rs 6820). Which is why I always suggest buying camera bodies in India. You get the warranty.

All that said, this is the price for a 2+ year old body and not a good baseline to judge a new camera's price by. So my guess is the D7100 body should be between Rs 60-62K.

And yes all in all, the price difference between a starter FX body and a good DX body is narrowing. DX is getting sandwiched between MLCs and FX. However going FX is not simply a matter of buying the body. You need to get good lenses too. And that can be an expensive proposition. So for someone on a budget it would leave them choosing between DX or a MLC.

Last edited by R2D2 : 21st February 2013 at 14:27.
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Old 21st February 2013, 14:35   #11414
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Just keep in mind that Nikon has different pricing policies for each market. But if the past is anything to go by - in case of the D4 & D800 they were launched at the SAME prices as the MSRP in the US. Later price revisions in mid 2012 (due to the INR tanking) put the MSRP in India above the MSRP in the US.

The D7000 body is listed at Rs 56K, say approx $1020 at Camshot v/s the MSRP of Rs 64,450, a discount of 13%. Street price wise this is cheaper than the US MSRP of $1350. But US retailers are currently selling it @ $896 till 2nd March on account of the new sales discounts offered by Nikon USA. Even then it is not too much of a difference between India street prices and B&H prices - it is about $124 (Rs 6820). Which is why I always suggest buying camera bodies in India. You get the warranty.

All that said, this is the price for a 2+ year old body and not a good baseline to judge a new camera's price by. So my guess is the D7100 body should be between Rs 60-62K.

And yes all in all, the price difference between a starter FX body and a good DX body is narrowing. DX is getting sandwiched between MLCs and FX. However going FX is not simply a matter of buying the body. You need to get good lenses too. And that can be an expensive proposition. So for someone on a budget it would leave them choosing between DX or a MLC.
Very well said R2D2. Thanks(There should have been Thanks button here). I think the MLC's and their prices have only added to confusion and given a new dimension to a confused new buyer's decision making process.

Last edited by ajay_satpute : 21st February 2013 at 14:36.
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Old 21st February 2013, 14:42   #11415
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Hi All,

A friend of mine wants to use his Nikon DSLR for shooting large videos, longer than 30 min. Is there any software similar to Magic Lantern for Canon, that can be used with Nikon DSLRs to shoot long videos?

Regards,
Behemoth
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