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Old 28th June 2015, 19:38   #13696
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Can some one tell me if warranty of tokina lens bought from USA will be honoured in India? I am looking for tokina 12-24 or 12-28 and see a decent difference between India and US price. But I am not sure of warranty as amazon USA says limited US warranty.
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Old 28th June 2015, 19:43   #13697
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Can some one tell me if warranty of tokina lens bought from USA will be honoured in India? I am looking for tokina 12-24 or 12-28 and see a decent difference between India and US price. But I am not sure of warranty as amazon USA says limited US warranty.
No, u wont get warranty in India. You can always get paid service and repairs.
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Old 29th June 2015, 11:14   #13698
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many forums exist for learning. "Better photography" is a good starting point. Mind sharing how much it cost you?
got it directly from the distributor thru a relative for 75k

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Congrats, register for Canon EDGE free photography workshop online on their forum after you register for warranty there. They also have good paid courses after the free basic one.
Thanks have already registered for warranty, had attended the training on Saturday , need to check about advance level training .
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Old 2nd July 2015, 00:37   #13699
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Thanks have already registered for warranty, had attended the training on Saturday , need to check about advance level training .
What is it that you want to learn in 'advance level training'?

By 'Basic' level, I understand you want to know (or have learnt by now) the exposure triangle and other things you can learn at a hundred places online. That should get you started (and shooting in 'Manual' mode should give you the required practice).

If you want to then understand things in even more depth, read the first two of the three books by Ansel Adams ('The Camera' and 'The Negative'). Despite not intended for digital (it was last edited by AA in the early 80s), these books will clarify concepts of cameras, lenses and exposure using the zone system. Then, read up on what is known as the exposure scale ('EV' system with the Sunny '16' Rule.). In my experience, all this stuff has given me more 'understanding' of photography than those thousands of 'tips and tricks' and 'xx hacks that every photographer should know' articles online.

P.S. A happy by-product of all this reading (especially the exposure scales) is that I am using a 1980 vintage 35-mm film SLR and a 1969 vintage 6X6 (120) TLR for my photography quite often now, both without functional meters.
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Old 4th July 2015, 15:00   #13700
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What is it that you want to learn in 'advance level training'?

That should get you started (and shooting in 'Manual' mode should give you the required practice).

If you want to then understand things in even more depth, read the first two of the three books by Ansel Adams ('The Camera' and 'The Negative'). Despite not intended for digital (it was last edited by AA in the early 80s), these books will clarify concepts of cameras, lenses and exposure using the zone system. Then, read up on what is known as the exposure scale ('EV' system with the Sunny '16' Rule.). In my experience, all this stuff has given me more 'understanding' of photography than those thousands of 'tips and tricks' and 'xx hacks that every photographer should know' articles online.

P.S. A happy by-product of all this reading (especially the exposure scales) is that I am using a 1980 vintage 35-mm film SLR and a 1969 vintage 6X6 (120) TLR for my photography quite often now, both without functional meters.
With recent DSLRs - that have sophisticated metering, and have instant feedback mechanism:

1. Why do you need to shoot in manual, unless there is a specific reason to do so? I shoot wildlife in manual mode + auto-iso, but there is a specific reason to do so - instant control over shutter speed (static vs moving creature).

2. Why do you need to invest time in learning sunny 16, zone systems etc.? Why not shoot extensively with your camera, understand its quirks (e.g. regarding metering, focusing etc.) and compensate for it in the field?

My personal opinion - we tend to make photography too complex. Too much information can be overwhelming

I get that you shoot film and so need to shoot differently, but why should DSLR shooters invest so much time learning technical stuff from another age? Might as well invest that time on practicing + course correction, mastering the gear one has, improving composition and post processing skills.
----

OK, on a separate note: The D5 rumored specs are droolworthy. If I get a 150-600 (the Sigma S, say), then I am covered till 600mm. Reach will not be such a big issue. And pair it with a crop sensor - say D7200 + 300mm PF f4 + 2X TC, which gives 900mm at f/8.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 4th July 2015 at 15:10.
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Old 4th July 2015, 15:16   #13701
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Zone system is useful to know, without which you can't really use spot metering.
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Old 4th July 2015, 15:31   #13702
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Zone system is useful to know, without which you can't really use spot metering.
I understand that one needs to know the basic concepts, and apply appropriately (if using spot or centre weighted metering) - whether blending multiple exposures, or exposing to the right (ETTR), or knowing by how much one can pull up shadows and reduce highlights for a particular camera RAW image- but my point is that when one can take test shots, and do immediate tweaks, whats the point of taking a deep dive into it?

Modern DSLRs have gone beyond film dynamic ranges, and one can do all sorts of stuff with a RAW image from a modern Sony sensor.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 4th July 2015 at 15:40.
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Old 4th July 2015, 16:28   #13703
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My view - When you use a DSLR/ SLR extensively, you start to understand without doing any calculations or trigonometry or integration/ derivation, what settings you must have exactly, what f stop you need to be at, what range/ distance is ideal for the light and composition. You get used to the body, so while peering through that tiny eyepiece, your fingers change and adjust parameters on the fly, and that's when you really understand you equipment. You dont need to be technical about it. This is strictly my view though.

Background - Currently at 57k clicks on a 5dii and over 70k clicks on a 550d previously.
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Old 5th July 2015, 16:14   #13704
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I am not intending to start a debate here, since every person has his own approach to photography, or even to life. Modern DSLRs have sophisticated metering, a list of features that runs into hundreds of pages and a whole lot of other things which make them out-think humans (it seems) and yet the internet is flooded with 20,000 bad photos for every good one.

The OP asked for 'advanced training' and I replied with what I felt 'advanced training' is about. It has helped my photography far, far more than anything else. Two years ago, I reached a point where I realised that simply switching metering modes and turning the dial left and right to bring the meter to the centre was not what was getting me closer to my vision. Rest is a personal choice.

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With recent DSLRs - that have sophisticated metering, and have instant feedback mechanism:
You may have an instant feedback mechanism but what is the point of seeing the image on screen if you don't know what is good and what is bad? What is 'properly exposed' and what is not? A histogram is not enough to show you a 'properly exposed' picture if your wish is to have a brightly lit face taking up 20% of the screen and a black background taking up the balance 80% of the screen, since it will show you massive underexposure in this case.

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1. Why do you need to shoot in manual, unless there is a specific reason to do so? I shoot wildlife in manual mode + auto-iso, but there is a specific reason to do so - instant control over shutter speed (static vs moving creature).
The very fact that you use manual mode + auto iso means that you have a certain understanding of how the camera works to arrive at that mode as your preferred choice. Unless, you have reached there by trial-and-error or heresay.

To me, aperture priority, shutter priority and program modes are extensions of the manual modes. I shoot manual (a personal preference) but without complete understanding of the exposure triangle you can't shoot in any of the above modes.

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2. Why do you need to invest time in learning sunny 16, zone systems etc.? Why not shoot extensively with your camera, understand its quirks (e.g. regarding metering, focusing etc.) and compensate for it in the field?
What are the 'quirks' in a camera? How do you 'compensate for a quirk in the field' without understanding how the camera works?

The sunny 16 rules or the zone system are not complex concepts that takes years of learning. That is a misconception. The Sunny 16 explains to you how metering works and the concepts of 'doubles' and 'halves' in exposure, while zone teaches you to grapple with contrasts in lighting and understanding tonality of a picture. You can shoot with working meters and get good exposure but when you are faced with a scene with huge amount of contrast, how do you shoot? Where do you meter? Obviously, matrix / evaluative metering doesn't work if you want to shoot a person's face against a background with blinding snow, sun and dark rocks? On an overcast day, do you meter for the sunny sky, the clouds or the dark scenery below? The zone and Sunny 16 only help you with these situations. Even a 15-stop DR won't help you if you don't spot meter at the right place.

Of course, one can always wait for a 'shoot a dark complexioned Indian face against snow with grey clouds and rocks' mode to come in cameras (unless its already there).

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My personal opinion - we tend to make photography too complex. Too much information can be overwhelming
To make things work for you, you need to understand how they work, at least to some level. To get good results, some amount of rigour is necessary. The OP wants 'advanced training', he might as well invest some time and effort. A weekend of reading is more than enough. Rest is practice, as you rightly recommended. Even an 'advanced' course in DSLR will take him that kind of involvement.

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I get that you shoot film and so need to shoot differently, but why should DSLR shooters invest so much time learning technical stuff from another age? Might as well invest that time on practicing + course correction, mastering the gear one has, improving composition and post processing skills.
Composition is not only about placement of objects within the frame. If you understand how lenses 'shorten', 'widen' or 'compress' or 'expand' perspective, you can compose better. If you want to show a small boy standing against the backdrop of a huge mountain, which lens do you use to make the boy look smaller and mountain bigger or vice versa? Assuming if you move back and forth too much you will fall over a cliff, how will you control perspective (and, therefore, composition) without changing your position? These are things the so-called 'technical concepts' clarify much faster than months of practice.

I shoot film because I have two lovely cameras and lenses lying with me and film and a great developing studio is still available. I mentioned this because a little bit of understanding of certain concepts make me confident with cameras without working meters in all conditions. 90% of my shooting is still digital. I shot with my digital cameras for almost a week without looking at the meter, and I realised it can be done so I do it. It need not apply for the OP, so I called it a 'by-product'.

Excuse me if this is an excessively long post, but perhaps my previous post was excessively short, so it seems the point never got across!

Last edited by architect : 5th July 2015 at 16:32.
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Old 5th July 2015, 17:03   #13705
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What is it that you want to learn in 'advance level training'?
I have attended a few such trainings from Nikon. In my opinion, these are pretty good way to learn for a beginner.

Primary advantage of such classroom trainings:

1. Removes "unknown unknowns" I.e. the ones we don't know we don't know. For me, pointers to composition and pointers to thinking about light were highlights.

2. If classroom includes models, it also brings out nuances (like how a 35mm distorts face or how to compose to show feminine features in flattering way or how to develop rapport with subject or how to shoot with what you have)

3. Peer group, one gets a easy avenue to form to peer groups for photo-walks and other such group events. These can be quite helpful.


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If you want to then understand things in even more depth, read the first two of the three books by Ansel Adams ('The Camera' and 'The Negative'). Despite not intended for digital (it was last edited by AA in the early 80s), these books will clarify concepts of cameras, lenses and exposure using the zone system. Then, read up on what is known as the exposure scale ('EV' system with the Sunny '16' Rule.).
In an ideal world, one would learn from all three channels (theory, practicals and peer group). Horses for the courses I guess.
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Old 5th July 2015, 20:31   #13706
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I am not intending to start a debate here, since every person has his own approach to photography, or even to life. Modern DSLRs have sophisticated metering, a list of features that runs into hundreds of pages and a whole lot of other things which make them out-think humans (it seems) and yet the internet is flooded with 20,000 bad photos for every good one.
I am replying from my mobile. Thank you for your long reply which brings forth many good points (and some points I disagree with). It's always good to have a debate. Maybe you can reinforce your points with some photos, and I can do the same (later)?
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Old 6th July 2015, 13:40   #13707
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I am replying from my mobile. Thank you for your long reply which brings forth many good points (and some points I disagree with). It's always good to have a debate. Maybe you can reinforce your points with some photos, and I can do the same (later)?
Which particular issue do you want me to illustrate with my photos? I won't be sharing my portraiture work (because of privacy of the subjects) but I am happy to share other work and explain how I went about it. Bear in mind that I am also learning and still practising these ideas and principles. So the process in this case is more important than the result. Maybe I am too old school, but that's the way I was trained to approach things.

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Primary advantage of such classroom trainings:

In an ideal world, one would learn from all three channels (theory, practicals and peer group). Horses for the courses I guess.
If you are able to understand the fundamentals and move on to the next level, great! That's the ultimate objective, whichever the method, but the the minimum investment on principles remains, whether through books or classes.
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Old 6th July 2015, 14:06   #13708
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Which particular issue do you want me to illustrate with my photos? I won't be sharing my portraiture work (because of privacy of the subjects) but I am happy to share other work and explain how I went about it. Bear in mind that I am also learning and still practising these ideas and principles. So the process in this case is more important than the result. Maybe I am too old school, but that's the way I was trained to approach things.
Examples where
1. Sunny 16
2. Proper knowledge of zone system (not just basic knowledge of how it works - brightest, darkest and in between zones)
came in useful. Do also mention the camera body and lens, and the metering mode and shooting mode (e.g. manual, aperture priority) you used.
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Old 6th July 2015, 18:12   #13709
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^^^
This thread itself about DSLR, not about photography. Can these discussion taken into Photography thread rather than DSLR Thread please?
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Old 6th July 2015, 18:49   #13710
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^^^
This thread itself about DSLR, not about photography. Can these discussion taken into Photography thread rather than DSLR Thread please?
Keeping the above in mind, I am just putting links to two photos on my flickr album. Camera / lens details are in the Exif on Flickr. the 17-50 is Tamron f/2.8 non VC. The film photos are scanned on a 35 mm slide/negative scanner.

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1. Sunny 16
https://flic.kr/p/ovFxvu

This was shot on a film camera Nikon F-801 without a working meter with a 50mm f/1.8 lens in July 2014. It was a bad day for photography with cloudy haze all over. Considering the low dynamic range of Fujicolor C200 I knew I would lose the sky or the detail under the brackets. Exposing for the brackets also meant losing some texture on the sandstone paved floor. Ultimately I chose the EV value of 12 ('Subjects in open shade'), applied a three stop over exposure to Sunny 16 (which is f/16, 1/250 for a 200 ASA film) by going down to 1/30 seconds. Even in digital, the range of readings I would get with spot metering the sky, the paving, the brackets would be diverse and in a scene like this the only 18% grey I can see is the patch of wall on the left. So the Sunny 16 would have worked here for EV12.

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2. Proper knowledge of zone system (not just basic knowledge of how it works
https://flic.kr/p/qYrocs

There was a massive difference in the exposure value of the darkest recesses of the tree trunk to the sky. My subject being the boxy (but dead) smoothness of the building vis-a-vis the gnarled almost dead tree trunk still growing leaves had to be covered in entirety (meaning no part of the building or the tree should have lost detail, ideally). Evaluative or Partial metering did not help. Center-weighted average does not help either. Finding an 18% grey to 'centre' the light meter was getting difficult and I was unsure (of course I could shoot and chimp but that wasn't teaching me anything). So I finally metered on the darkest part of the trunk and put it 3 stops below center and the brightest building about 4 stops above centre, judging (or misjudging) about a 6-stop or almost 7-zone difference. I got the shot I wanted in one go without under- or over-exposure in the context of the subject and the effect visualised correctly.

Last edited by architect : 6th July 2015 at 19:11.
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