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Old 23rd August 2006, 08:42   #46
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Default Bandwidth allocation

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover
problems with Dish Tv

1. Poor picture & sound quality (Some channels are good)
2. 4th world customer care
3. Nobody has any idea of what tomoroow holds. any discussions on this will be shunned with a " we will let u know" or a "please keep in touch with channel 999"
4. Sudden increase in prices for the channels u watch (Pay up or else !!!)
5. Rob them once u have 'em attitude.

i sincerely hope all of this will change with competition lurking.
The amount of bandwidth (Megabits/sec) determines the distribution quality of a channel/signal. If the picture is relatively static (such as talking heads in an interview, the bandwidth for a certain quality is less) whereas if it is a music video where the rate of change in each frame is high, then the bandwidth for the same quality is higher. Sports is another good example. DTH operators have a fixed satellite transponder bandwidth and have x number of channels that they broadcast. All these channels have to share this total bandwidth and depending on the bandsidth allocated by the operator - Zee or TataSky or DD, the quality is dependent on it. MAkret conditions - terms of the contract, the premium channels usually get more bandwidth and the not so premium channels get less bandwidth. Of course the inout quality is also very importanta. If you feed a Digi Beta signal vs a VHS signal irrespective of the bandwidth allocated, the VHS signal will still look bad. That is the difference in quality between a sanskar channel and a Sony channel quality..

The difference between Dish and Tata Sky will be how much bandwidth will be allocated. I was with the NDTV guys yesterday, and they mentioned that their signal gets distributed on tata-sky at 3-3.5Mbps whereas on Dish it is around 1.6Mbps. That would explain the quality difference..

ranga raj
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Old 23rd August 2006, 09:12   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme
does anybody have issues with Dish TV reception during rains.
Yes, during rains it shows "No Signal", i found most of the time this happens with the Pay channels. FTA channels don't have such problems.
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Old 23rd August 2006, 11:12   #48
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Originally Posted by egangsta
So finally Dish Tv has the star package any idea as to what are the total damages in monthly charges.Whats it finally gona cost to add the star package..

Cheers Ed..
After the first couple of months which is free (rather, included in the initial cost), I'm on the package that costs 300 per month plus taxes (works out to 375 per month) and has all the channels. I think the Star bouquet is free for all packages till the end of November anyway but they will add on something subsequently (they keep flashing this on the Interactive channel, let me check this out tonite and get back to you).

ballkey, you are correct, I haven't seen the Sun network or KTV there. Guys, follow this link to get a comprehensive list of what's available now -
http://www.dishtvindia.in/static/packDishmaxi.asp

One of the things I like about it is that some channels (like Cartoon Network, Euronews etc) have the option of selecting language so one can choose to hear the English one rather than be forced to hear something else!
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Old 23rd August 2006, 11:22   #49
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Have a Hathway STB for my room. while the other 2 TV's run on plain cable connection. Now that we have decided to go for STB for the other TV too...my question should I stay with STB or go for TATASKY / DISH TV ?

Am not able to decide - the main reason being the DTH operators show no clarity on the channels they are going to provide and I dont want to be stuck in a situation where either Star/ Sony / Zee bouquet isnt avaiable. So what is the best option for me?
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Old 23rd August 2006, 11:40   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme
does anybody have issues with Dish TV reception during rains.
yup, me too, come the rains & no TV...initially when it was installed, it would be only for the first few minutes after which it would stabilise & some of the channels could be viewed. but now, as soon as it starts raining, the picture goes off.
very frustrating
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Old 23rd August 2006, 11:47   #51
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Default A few clarifications..

Quote:
Originally Posted by normally_crazy
Have a Hathway STB for my room. while the other 2 TV's run on plain cable connection. Now that we have decided to go for STB for the other TV too...my question should I stay with STB or go for TATASKY / DISH TV ?

Am not able to decide - the main reason being the DTH operators show no clarity on the channels they are going to provide and I dont want to be stuck in a situation where either Star/ Sony / Zee bouquet isnt avaiable. So what is the best option for me?
The current cable networks as you all know is a mish-mash of coax cables with a few operators putting in some fiber to the kerb to improve quality. The problem thus far has been that users or customers are not addressable (translated to lay man terms - you get all channels or nothing, and the operator or you cannot choose to offer a select number of channels and pay accordingly).

To make it addressable, you need two things - a STB and at the headend, something called CAS (conditional access system). The government and the channels (content owners) have been pushing for this, but there has been a lot of push back from the operators (cable). STB without CAS is free to air - eg. DD Direct - doordarshan's DTH which is free to air if you buy the STB. CAM (conditional access module) provides this feature.

The STB is universally required and there are variants depending on the type of network connectivity - satellite (DTH), cable, broadband (IPSTB), terestrial etc.. In a few countries, if you bought a STB from one vendor (say Dish TV) and was unhappy with them and wanted to switch to Tata Sky you need them to be interoperable and that is where CI comes in. By law all STBs for DTH need to be CI enabled to allow users the ability to switch from one operator to another. Initial set of STB's were not CI enabled. (by the way, you cannot of course switch from cable to satellite - you need to buy a different STB, but you could switch from one satellite operator to another, or if the cable STB has CI from one cable operator to another).

Currently there are no solutions offered for multiple connections within a home, but there is a solution offered by Tata Sky called MDU (multi-dwelling unit) to address large communities. Instead of each apartment having satellite dishes in their balconies or on the roof, multiple apartments can share one and each home can have STBs. They are doing the wiring for homes and i do not know if they have a discounted pricing using this to offer multiple connections within a home.

With regard to the bouquet of channels offered, all around the world, DTH operators survive on "exclusivity". BSkyB became successful, as they had exclusive rights to telecast premier league football and you had to buy a BskyB box to get access to that in the UK. In India however, the government has put in a legislation that if a channel is offered to one operator, it has to be offered to all other operators, denying exclusivity.. How this will work with foreign channels however is a different issue. It is still early times in India and therefore the bouquet of channels is sorting itself out. Sun TV was supposed to start their own DTH operations, but with the insat failure they are looking at other satellites to start it, and therefore waiting to be ready (i guess) before they offer their channels to other operators.

Hope this helps..

Last edited by rangaraj : 23rd August 2006 at 11:51.
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Old 23rd August 2006, 15:53   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangaraj
The amount of bandwidth (Megabits/sec) determines the distribution quality of a channel/signal. If the picture is relatively static (such as talking heads in an interview, the bandwidth for a certain quality is less) whereas if it is a music video where the rate of change in each frame is high, then the bandwidth for the same quality is higher. Sports is another good example. DTH operators have a fixed satellite transponder bandwidth and have x number of channels that they broadcast. All these channels have to share this total bandwidth and depending on the bandsidth allocated by the operator - Zee or TataSky or DD, the quality is dependent on it. MAkret conditions - terms of the contract, the premium channels usually get more bandwidth and the not so premium channels get less bandwidth. Of course the inout quality is also very importanta. If you feed a Digi Beta signal vs a VHS signal irrespective of the bandwidth allocated, the VHS signal will still look bad. That is the difference in quality between a sanskar channel and a Sony channel quality..

The difference between Dish and Tata Sky will be how much bandwidth will be allocated. I was with the NDTV guys yesterday, and they mentioned that their signal gets distributed on tata-sky at 3-3.5Mbps whereas on Dish it is around 1.6Mbps. That would explain the quality difference..

ranga raj
rangaraj,
thanks a lot. ur post was very informative. like u said about the picture quality depends on the bandwidth allocated, i have a few questions here.
1. Does audio quality also depend on the same ?
2. When DishTv is saying that the equipment they supply is capable of n number of channels, what is the minimum bandwidth required for each channel ?
3. Do sports channels require larger bandwidth ?
4. How can i ensure that i get the best quality of picture & sound within the bandwidth allocated by dish ?
5. The signal strength is always around 72-75%, 75% being excellent picture quality. Is there anyway i can improve on that ?

Quote:
By law all STBs for DTH need to be CI enabled to allow users the ability to switch from one operator to another. Initial set of STB's were not CI enabled.


Does that mean i can switch over to Tata Sky, if i am not satisfied with dish ??

i think u r a technical guy, so if u can explain these things, i would be more than happy.
thanks

Last edited by esteem_lover : 23rd August 2006 at 15:56.
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Old 23rd August 2006, 16:55   #53
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Default Answers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover
rangaraj,
thanks a lot. ur post was very informative. like u said about the picture quality depends on the bandwidth allocated, i have a few questions here.
i think u r a technical guy, so if u can explain these things, i would be more than happy.
thanks
1. Does audio quality also depend on the same ?
>> Very much so.. a simple example is mp3 - use less kb/s and you get worse quality.. The number of channels and the encoding format determine the bandwidth - there are different coding standards depending on the use. MP3,
AAC (used in iPOD), Dolby (various versions) are example of coding formats. Mono, stereo, surrond, 5.1 (5 channels plus sub woofer), 7.1 (7 channels + subwoofer) define the number of channels that need to be encoded and therefore more the number of channels, more bandwidth required. Typically HDTV broadcasts in the US are accompanies by 5.1 channels of sound. In india, the DTH operators offer "CD quality" stereo sound..

2. When DishTv is saying that the equipment they supply is capable of n number of channels, what is the minimum bandwidth required for each channel ?
>> You dont have a control on that, but they do. So overall for argument sake if they have 100Mbps transponder bandwitdh on the satellite, they could squeeze in around 18-19 channels @5Mbps each if they kept them all equal. The DTH operator, depending on the importance of the channel (premium or normal or just to fill space) and the amount of advertising revenue, and the type of content allocates bandwidth to each channel. It is a balance between number of channels and the number of transponders on the satellite as each transponder has x Mbps bandwidth. If you go below a minimum bandwidth, you will start to see/hear glitches - blockiness, picture freeze, audio clicks etc. are common examples of low bitrate. The other factor is the quality of the decoder (which sits on your STB).

3. Do sports channels require larger bandwidth ?
>> Yes, more action and movement and colour - more bandwidth.. Snooker will require less bandwidth than football..

4. How can i ensure that i get the best quality of picture & sound within the bandwidth allocated by dish ?

>> Unfortunately, it is not in your hands ;-(... It is upto the operator..All you can do is to ensure that from the dish to the STB and from the STB to your TV/Audio system, you use good quality cables that do not lower the quality further.

5. The signal strength is always around 72-75%, 75% being excellent picture quality. Is there anyway i can improve on that ?

>> Direction of the antenna towards the satellite, the location within India (different parts of the satellite footprint have different strengths), any obstructions (trees, buildings), rain are some factors that affect the signal strength..

Does that mean i can switch over to Tata Sky, if i am not satisfied with dish ??
>> Yes, if your STB that Dish gives you has a CI interface, and the interoperability testing has been done by the STB vendor.
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Old 24th August 2006, 15:50   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangaraj
1. Does audio quality also depend on the same ?
>> Very much so.. a simple example is mp3 - use less kb/s and you get worse quality.. The number of channels and the encoding format determine the bandwidth - there are different coding standards depending on the use. MP3,
AAC (used in iPOD), Dolby (various versions) are example of coding formats. Mono, stereo, surrond, 5.1 (5 channels plus sub woofer), 7.1 (7 channels + subwoofer) define the number of channels that need to be encoded and therefore more the number of channels, more bandwidth required. Typically HDTV broadcasts in the US are accompanies by 5.1 channels of sound. In india, the DTH operators offer "CD quality" stereo sound..

2. When DishTv is saying that the equipment they supply is capable of n number of channels, what is the minimum bandwidth required for each channel ?
>> You dont have a control on that, but they do. So overall for argument sake if they have 100Mbps transponder bandwitdh on the satellite, they could squeeze in around 18-19 channels @5Mbps each if they kept them all equal. The DTH operator, depending on the importance of the channel (premium or normal or just to fill space) and the amount of advertising revenue, and the type of content allocates bandwidth to each channel. It is a balance between number of channels and the number of transponders on the satellite as each transponder has x Mbps bandwidth. If you go below a minimum bandwidth, you will start to see/hear glitches - blockiness, picture freeze, audio clicks etc. are common examples of low bitrate. The other factor is the quality of the decoder (which sits on your STB).

3. Do sports channels require larger bandwidth ?
>> Yes, more action and movement and colour - more bandwidth.. Snooker will require less bandwidth than football..

4. How can i ensure that i get the best quality of picture & sound within the bandwidth allocated by dish ?

>> Unfortunately, it is not in your hands ;-(... It is upto the operator..All you can do is to ensure that from the dish to the STB and from the STB to your TV/Audio system, you use good quality cables that do not lower the quality further.

5. The signal strength is always around 72-75%, 75% being excellent picture quality. Is there anyway i can improve on that ?

>> Direction of the antenna towards the satellite, the location within India (different parts of the satellite footprint have different strengths), any obstructions (trees, buildings), rain are some factors that affect the signal strength..

Does that mean i can switch over to Tata Sky, if i am not satisfied with dish ??
>>
Quote:
Yes, if your STB that Dish gives you has a CI interface, and the interoperability testing has been done by the STB vendor.


i am quite sure what a CI interface is, i will have to check that out. and the iter...test, i dont understand, can u please explain what is that & what do we require to carry out this test? and one more question

1. sometimes certain channels have 0 signal strength while the others have the same signal strength. why is that ?? it rectifies itself after a little bit of moving the dish/lnb
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Old 24th August 2006, 17:04   #55
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Hi all,

can anyone help me with the details of Tatasky satellite name through which they are beaming their services and it's position.

For eg: Dish TV is on NSS6 at 95 deg E
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Old 24th August 2006, 17:48   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover
[/b]

i am quite sure what a CI interface is, i will have to check that out. and the iter...test, i dont understand, can u please explain what is that & what do we require to carry out this test? and one more question

1. sometimes certain channels have 0 signal strength while the others have the same signal strength. why is that ?? it rectifies itself after a little bit of moving the dish/lnb
The Common Interface is an option to put a second smart card in your STB. So if you are watching TataSky with x channels and you have another DTH operator who has another set of channels (from the same satellite - as you have the dish pointing in one direction), then you can add a second smart card that will descramble the second operators conditional access and you can view both. Eg. if Sun TV offers a set of channels on the same satellite, then you can buy a smart (CAM) card from Sun and add that card besides the current card given by Tata Sky to watch both.

Regarding your question on the signal strength, it is the allignment problem of the dish (due to wind or not fixed accurately) - there is an On Screen Display of signal strength and you can view this (which is probably what you are doing).
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Old 24th August 2006, 17:53   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapideffect
Hi all,

can anyone help me with the details of Tatasky satellite name through which they are beaming their services and it's position.

For eg: Dish TV is on NSS6 at 95 deg E
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Sky
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Old 24th August 2006, 18:31   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangaraj
The Common Interface is an option to put a second smart card in your STB. So if you are watching TataSky with x channels and you have another DTH operator who has another set of channels (from the same satellite - as you have the dish pointing in one direction), then you can add a second smart card that will descramble the second operators conditional access and you can view both. Eg. if Sun TV offers a set of channels on the same satellite, then you can buy a smart (CAM) card from Sun and add that card besides the current card given by Tata Sky to watch both.

Regarding your question on the signal strength, it is the allignment problem of the dish (due to wind or not fixed accurately) - there is an On Screen Display of signal strength and you can view this (which is probably what you are doing).
there is a provision for a 2nd card in my stb. but wouldn't the software of dish make it not possible for me to view the other channels. is it possible that dish could have done something like that ? because everytime i start the receiver, i see dishtv on the bios screen. wonder if that has got something to do with it.
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Old 24th August 2006, 19:05   #59
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Default STB in Mumbai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Any feedback from users in Mumbai? We're kind of sick of cable operators too and Dish TV seemed like a good alternative
I have an InCable STB in Thane and am pretty satisfied with both Video and Audio quality. But like someone else mentioned, channel surfing is kinda slow and sometimes tempts you to watch directly (in analog mode).

The other big advantage is the Electronic Porgramme Guide (EPG) which provides schedules and brief info about all programmes for the next 1-2 weeks.

I would recommend a STB if you are not satisfied with the cable reception otherwise wait a while for a shakeout.
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Old 25th August 2006, 11:41   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover
there is a provision for a 2nd card in my stb. but wouldn't the software of dish make it not possible for me to view the other channels. is it possible that dish could have done something like that ? because everytime i start the receiver, i see dishtv on the bios screen. wonder if that has got something to do with it.
The second card slot indicates that it is CI enabled. One could also have multiple dishes pointing to different satellites and the CI is the buffer between multiple Conditional access systems (TataSky uses NDS, and i think Zee used the Nagra from Kudelski group). If it does not work, you can go to the consumer forum, as the law states that the boxes sold need to be CI compliant..;-).. One of our groups actually tests the STB box from TataSky if it will play Dish programs as well. I assume that this would be the same case with Zee's box..
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