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Old 26th December 2014, 19:22   #46
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle3662533.ece

Airtel tried it before, they wanted share of FB and Google revenue. Since no one paid heed, they are back with new trick to get money directly from end user.
i guess soon #boycottairtel will be tending hashtag on twitter.

By the way I am curious about below numbers. Any one has these stats

1.how much data Skype consumes for a video or audio call of 1 minute?
2.How many of us are using mobile internet to make skype calls? Rather VoIP app usagae pattern among smartphone users.
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Old 26th December 2014, 20:23   #47
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Are they out of their mind? Such an idiotic idea.




tarunactivity, I don't think VPN will be of any use here since the data still comes from Airtel and their monitoring will identify if it is a VOIP call or not. I have no clue how they are going to do this (I'm sure they are not going to monitor based on the protocol used).
@astonite when connected via VPN, all traffic is encrypted and flows through the VPN server.

So the ISP will just transmit the data via the vpn server. They won't know what data is transferred and the destination.

This is useful when you are using a free or shared connection and you don't want your data intercepted.

(of course, if you are using a free hotspot, your data is already being intercepted..)
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Old 26th December 2014, 21:12   #48
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

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Originally Posted by tarunactivity View Post
@astonite when connected via VPN, all traffic is encrypted and flows through the VPN server.

So the ISP will just transmit the data via the vpn server. They won't know what data is transferred and the destination.

This is useful when you are using a free or shared connection and you don't want your data intercepted.
Sorry but I think that's a terrible idea for VOIP calls. I think that the typical (unreliable) latency in 3G coupled with the overhead of a VPN will make the VOIP call so patchy that you're better off calling directly.

Unless you have an awesome VPN recommendation to share
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Old 27th December 2014, 12:36   #49
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

It will be interesting to understand whether Airtel is provisioning their network differently to handle VoIP traffic. If this is the case, differential pricing makes sense as VoIP traffic needs special handling (real time, guaranteed latencies) to offer good quality calls. But if there is nothing special getting done to offer these, but charging is different then it seems unfair. Can someone in the telecom domain get more details regarding this?

What is illogical is if the operator differentiates between the same type of traffic simply because there is a tie-up with a particular app developer/company etc. I feel this is where net neutrality comes in because you are differentiating data based on whether its coming from a competitor/partner. Shouldn't differentiating across different types of traffic because you have to handle traffic types differently (have special equipment etc) be allowed?

If special provisioning is getting done to handle latency sensitive traffic - then the analogy is more like charging differential rates on toll roads for different types of vehicles. For e.g a car and a multi-axle trailer pay different tolls and its logical. But if the differentiation is between Honda and Maruti sedan simply because the toll operator has a tie-up with one of them should attract regulatory scrutiny.
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Old 27th December 2014, 14:10   #50
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

http://www.financialexpress.com/arti...khullar/23513/

There goes the TRAI's stance with VOIP's separate billing. We know its a losing battle against the corporate giants, but losing TRAI on Day 3 is a major blow ( No my recent 5.30am test match follow-ups doesn't influence my words here ).
On a serious note, yes they can detect the various servers if the app is an exclusive VOIP only service, but what about the apps' which provide integrated VOIP support along with regular text/multimedia exchanges, because they are going to connect to the same server for different purposes. My question is - Is Airtel 'THAT' kind of a technowizard to intercept what is happening within a encrypted data exchange or am I missing something here?
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Old 27th December 2014, 14:59   #51
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

From what I know, unless the govt stops them, - all the big operators will follow the Airtel route. So there may not be a short term exit option.
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Old 27th December 2014, 17:41   #52
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

Is this specifically for mobile data or are they doing the same thing with their broadband connections too?
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Old 27th December 2014, 18:56   #53
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

This is a joke, really. First of all, the speeds that they provide - supposedly 3G - is pathetic. I have hardly seen 3G like for 5 minutes all combined for the past 4 months. Mostly it is either H, H+ or E. Even then, they charge us for 3G rates!

I do not think this will go down that smoothly - if they do, I am the first one to switch operators.
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Old 27th December 2014, 19:07   #54
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

A lot of people seem to think they're being short changed because they see H or H+ instead of 3G. Looks like a bit of telecom FAQ is in order.

A 3G signal on a modern smartphone means you are getting UMTS which is 384 kbps download and 128 kbps upload.

H (short for HSPA - high speed packet access) gives you speeds anywhere between 7.2 Mbps down / 3.6 up for the earliest version to a whopping 168.8 Mbps down / 23 Mbps up for the latest HSPA v 10. Judging by data card speeds offering 14.4 Mbps, what a lot of carriers have is HSPA v 6, 14.4 Mbps down and 5.76 up.

Keep in mind all these speeds are theoretical maxima - but for a certainity, the speeds you get when your smartphone shows you H+ are far higher than when they show 3G.

H+ is one of several 3.5 G protocols - after this there's LTE and LTE advanced, aka 4G that can provide gigabit download speeds. Of course if you keep persistently getting E (EDGE) or G (GPRS) then those are 2G technologies with speed theoretically maxing out at couple of hundred kilobits per second download

Last edited by hserus : 27th December 2014 at 19:11.
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Old 27th December 2014, 19:13   #55
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

http://www.medianama.com/2014/12/223...ity-violation/

An interesting analysis.
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Old 27th December 2014, 19:23   #56
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

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Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post
This is a joke, really. First of all, the speeds that they provide - supposedly 3G - is pathetic. I have hardly seen 3G like for 5 minutes all combined for the past 4 months. Mostly it is either H, H+ or E. Even then, they charge us for 3G rates!

I do not think this will go down that smoothly - if they do, I am the first one to switch operators.
To put very simply what hserus above has written - The H/H+ you see is all 3G (H+ is the best in 3G that you can get). So you can be sure you are not being fooled

Here in Bangalore mostly I do get good 3G experience most of the time on the Airtel network. I do all app updates on my android device on 3G only. I think you should call airtel service regarding your patchy connection.
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Old 27th December 2014, 20:19   #57
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

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Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
This is actually interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
To put very simply what hserus above has written - The H/H+ you see is all 3G (H+ is the best in 3G that you can get). So you can be sure you are not being fooled
In the words of Airtel's CC - the speeds follow this order (highest to lowest) - 4G LTE < 3G < H+ < H < E
I honestly am no expert in deducing the symbol and the speeds - but I believe I should receive what I paid for.

Airtel seems to be kind of determined to follow this through until someone knocks their heads (oh, wait - they are big business, who will?); I would be shifting all my data plan to BSNL (who when I checked last had no stupid rule such as this and were about 50% less priced).

The rationale behind it is pathetic - what stops Airtel from starting a VOIP service? It's like, if I listen to music on Internet Radio - they would charge per minute and not as the data usage.

Last edited by pratyush6 : 27th December 2014 at 20:21.
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Old 27th December 2014, 21:32   #58
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

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From what I know, unless the govt stops them, - all the big operators will follow the Airtel route. So there may not be a short term exit option.
Govt will always take too much time to respond, because there are no existing laws to stop these pricing by airtel.

Faster and most effective way to stop these thugs is to port out of their network. If people start porting out of their network, airtel may roll back their decision and the other operators will be reluctant to do such things in future.
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Old 27th December 2014, 21:33   #59
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

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Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post
In the words of Airtel's CC - the speeds follow this order (highest to lowest) - 4G LTE < 3G < H+ < H < E
I honestly am no expert in deducing the symbol and the speeds - but I believe I should receive what I paid for.
That customer care representative is clearly mistaken. These symbols are based on international standards and an operator cannot simply brand a regular 3G as H or 4G.

Actual speeds are G < E < 3G < H < H+ < 4G

Quote:
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Govt will always take too much time to respond, because there are no existing laws to stop these pricing by airtel.

Faster and most effective way to stop these thugs is to port out of their network. If people start porting out of their network, airtel may roll back their decision and the other operators will be reluctant to do such things in future.
I'm sure all operators are going to follow Airtel's footsteps sooner or later. Even TRAI is on their side for this move since they too would love to get some fees out of these OTT players, even if it is the disguise of making it a level playing field. If TRAI intervenes and asks companies to have the net neutrality maintained, the first response from the companies to TRAI would be to scrap the fees and charges that goes to the government currently from these operators since the OTT players are not paying the same. Operators would not agree to net neutrality unless they get the same benefits as the other OTT players who need not be worried about these charges to the government. Since neither government nor TRAI is going to agree on waiving off the charges and fees for the telecom operators, I doubt they would have grounds to demand some of these reforms without it being thrown out in court. Just look at how the taxes on petrol and diesel increased when the international prices came down so that the end user didn't get fully benefited out of it. Government's 'greed' for taxes is not going to end one fine day and that would ensure that the recent move from Airtel is here to stay.

Last edited by zenren : 27th December 2014 at 21:44.
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Old 27th December 2014, 22:10   #60
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Default re: Airtel wants to charge extra for VOIP EDIT : Deferred for now

This appeared in Moneylife magazine " On Dec 12 2014 Delhi High court had ordered Sistema Shyam Teleservices (MTS) to bring its equipment to court to test advertisement claim of Internet speeds of upto 9.8Mbps.
MTS claimed the speed would work only under test conditions, MTS did not put the issue to test and the case was disposed off in favour of ASCI (advertising standards council of India)
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