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Old 21st September 2010, 00:00   #1531
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Mine is Dell Optiplex GX280 with
P4 INTEL 3.2 Ghz Processor, 160 GB Sata HDD, 1GB RAM,128MB Graphic Card, Inbuilt speakers,DVD RW with Windows xp Profssional SP 2

The second one is
Dell Latitude D520 Laptop
Core 2 Duo 1.66,80 GB HDD, 1 GB RAM, 15" Display,Wifi,Blue tooth enabled,DVD RW,

The third is yet to come and thye delivery is expected on 23rd Sept

Apple I mac,21,5. with intel processor and oS X snow leopard,Wireless KB,Mouse
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Old 21st September 2010, 10:07   #1532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
You mean the laptop's real estate is less right?

Sorry. Yes the laptop requires less space all round.

But sorry Aroy, RI & Ironhawk, I'm in no mood for laptop. I prefer a desktop for home, though I love to have a laptop. After my bad experience with Dell Latitude, laptops are "no no" for me.

Try better laptop vendor. Thinkpad comes with 1/3 year warranty extendable to 5 years, so does HP. Laptops are being preferred for CAD, GIS and Editing by corporates.


Hmmm...ok. In that case, let me see how things work out; I'm not a big fan of LCD, so it doesn't impress me. All I need is a power that I can afford. In addition, if I get hold of 2 systems, that serves me dual purpose, with Wifey & Son's stuff on old one & mine on new one. Also I'll need to network both of them which is another expense.

Networking is cheap. Most of the motherboards come with an Ethernet port. If not an external one is around 200. A 100mbps switch is also less than 500. Add cable costs and you can have a network in less than 1K.

If you have a DSL then the switch is already built in and you have to connect Ethernet to it.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Exactly. If you add the cost of the UPS, portability, etc.. the difference is even less noticeable. With desktops however you get a 24"+ screen. A portable laptop is 12-14".

Aroy, what do you think about the Alienware 11x vs the Lenovo X201?
I will go through the specs and revert back. In US Alienware is a top end gamer PC, in India we have to see what Dell offers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Laptops are a pain to fiddle with. You are pretty much stuck with what you buy. Laptops also seem to be built to die just after the warranty expires.

Have to say, on the last point, that my own HP laptop, although it has been to hospital a couple of times, has way outlived the HP desktop I got at around the same time. I do think I'm lucky, though, to have a 5-plus-yr-old laptop still running.
Exactly. Get a good laptop with good support and it last 5 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass View Post
I second that. A desktop is a lot more comfortable to work longer durations and is easier to upgrade or mix and match. And it is known that a laptop's keyboard, touch pad etc. are not really ergonomic. Adding them all as separate units defeats the purpose of mobility.

As for UPS, if you have a modem/router, you will need one anyway.
Laptops are replacing desktops in the corporate world.
A UPS for modem can be really small 200/300VA model, and last a long time. Not so with a desktop, where you need a beefy UPS, and then you would be spending a lot to get 2-4 hours backup!
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Old 21st September 2010, 14:36   #1533
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Above all, buy a laptop if you require portability. That, after all, is the whole point of the things.

Otherwise, buy a laptop if: you know that you will never want to add hard disks, add memory (probably actually the only feasible laptop upgrade), add any of the huge range of PCI cards, add change or upgrade optical drives, upgrade (or even change) the graphics card, go for a new monitor, open the case to take the dust out,etc etc etc

Buy a laptop if you are happy to: put up with a fraction of the performance at the same price, have a single point of failure, have something that is physically more fragile, etc etc etc.

For an "on-desk" machine, I don't think there is a single good reason to buy a laptop rather that a desktop/tower PC. Not one. Just don't do it!

If laptops are replacing desktops in the corporate world, then, IMHO (as a one time buyer of such things in the corporate world) some very, very stupid buying decisions are being made. Of course, my experience of the corporate world says that that is entirely possible!
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Old 21st September 2010, 15:00   #1534
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I completely agree with Thad E Ginathom. Laptops should only be used where portability is to be considered. No way it can replace the desktop PC. changing a battery or the display cost about 8k to 12k. No part in a desktop pc cost near it. For the price of a good laptop, we can get a better and faster pc.
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Old 21st September 2010, 15:30   #1535
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Laptops are complementing, rather than replacing, desktops in the corporate world.
In our organization, Manager upwards get a laptop as it is expected that they might have to take decisions 24x7 which requires access to all documents/emails. But all of them dock the laptop (in a laptop dock) and work in a desktop mode in office (with k'board / mouse) - every one I have seen.
The only people given dedicated laptops out of the above scenario are the production support and DBA teams. Each person in the team take turns every weekend to take home the laptop and be ready to provide support in case of any urgent need.
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Old 21st September 2010, 20:17   #1536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
@Anku - your posts have very much influenced my decision.
Anytime

Adding my bit to the lappies vs desktops debate :-

Reasons not to buy a laptop
  1. Mobility hardware is not as fast as its desktop counterparts.
  2. You can't customize the configuration to your needs. To some extent - yes, but nowhere near the flexibility of a PC.
  3. Upgrades - again limited
  4. You can't add aftermarket cooling and overclock all the way you want.
  5. You don't get to assemble it yourselves.
  6. Keyboard layout not ergonomic, touchpad nowhere as convenient as a mouse.
  7. Laptop design does not permit you to use it in your normal body posture. Both your hands and your eyes are concentrated on one little device compared to a desktop where you are in a far more natural position.
  8. You have to pay a company for all the support and assembling services you don't require.
Reasons to buy a laptop:-
  1. You're going to college. Reason enough.
That's actually the worse part. I'm, hopefully, getting a computer upgrade for the first time since September 2004, and it has to be a laptop. Still, I'm not compromising. Much. Eyes set on Dell XPS 16 with ATI Radeon 5830 1GB.

Wanted an Alienware M15x initially, but it's heavy at 4.02 kg, and from what I know, its performance/price ratio is much poorer than an average laptop. The graphics card they have is just as good as a XPS 16. So what do I pay all those bucks for ? Cool lights ?

Let's hope the market changes significantly by the time I get one [Summer 2011].

Last edited by anku94 : 21st September 2010 at 20:21.
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Old 21st September 2010, 20:55   #1537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
Reasons to buy a laptop:-
  1. You're going to college. Reason enough.
One more reason being, mobility is a great bless; imagine carrying a PC & Tata Photon connection while on travel. It would be pleasure getting lost on the way. One simple device helps to watch movies, navigate, connect with people, audio player.

Like I said before, I love to buy a laptop, but the nightmare on upgrade is really haunting. But there're another news to share, I got hold of the mother board CD lying in one of my CD pouches & got my desktop up & working.

Having said this, now I'm forced to consider the option of laptop, but for its exorbidant cost.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 09:20   #1538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
Anytime

Adding my bit to the lappies vs desktops debate :-

Reasons not to buy a laptop
  1. Mobility hardware is not as fast as its desktop counterparts.
    True but for a normal user it does suffice.
  2. You can't customize the configuration to your needs. To some extent - yes, but nowhere near the flexibility of a PC.
  3. Upgrades - again limited
    Other than adding PCI cards what other upgrade is in your mind?
    HDD - Buy an external one
    RAM - Possible in Both
    Changing the motherboard and processor is like getting a new one.
    I do agree that the screen and keyboard need not be changed.... but an upgrade like this would be 4 years hence
  4. You can't add aftermarket cooling and overclock all the way you want.
    Overclocking always has a fall side to it. Why do it in the first place unless you are a real power user.
  5. You don't get to assemble it yourselves.
    I completely agree with you on this aspect
  6. Keyboard layout not ergonomic, touchpad nowhere as convenient as a mouse.
    I use a mouse and the keyboards in most good branded laptops take care of ergonomics. Please note that the key travel in most laptop keyboards is far lesser than most conventional keyboards
  7. Laptop design does not permit you to use it in your normal body posture. Both your hands and your eyes are concentrated on one little device compared to a desktop where you are in a far more natural position.
    Not necessarily. A doctor once told me that the right angle of dip from line of sight horizontal to the ground should be 15 -20 deg. A laptop by its design ensures it by default.
  8. You have to pay a company for all the support and assembling services you don't require.
Reasons to buy a laptop:-
  1. You're going to college. Reason enough.
  2. Backup - Atleast 1.5 Hrs for the worst laptop.
  3. Space
  4. Mobility
In my mind for a normal user playing games occasionally or doing intermediate photo and video editing work. Laptop works well.
If someone needs to run power hungry applications and needs to keep the system up and running for long durations (8-10 Hrs +) or if he is a hardcore gamer, then he has to go for a desktop.
Comparing a desktop and a laptop honestly makes nto much sense as both are driven by their own use and have their own advantages and dis-advantages catering to different requirements. Cost-wise latops are a lot cheaper now. You can get real good Acer laptops for almost the same cost of a desktop and they are pretty good as well.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 11:33   #1539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
Laptops are complementing, rather than replacing, desktops in the corporate world.
In our organization, Manager upwards get a laptop as it is expected that they might have to take decisions 24x7 which requires access to all documents/emails. But all of them dock the laptop (in a laptop dock) and work in a desktop mode in office (with k'board / mouse) - every one I have seen.
The only people given dedicated laptops out of the above scenario are the production support and DBA teams. Each person in the team take turns every weekend to take home the laptop and be ready to provide support in case of any urgent need.
The reason corporate world is going for laptops are following

1. Power. You save power of desktop, ups, AC.
2. Space. There is more real estate on your desk. Do factor in the cost of space. It is quite exorbitant. If you save 10 sqf. per persons the you have 10k saved for 1000. At 100 per foot the saving is 1000k. That is big money, apart from the fact that the space may not be available.
3. Cost. At 1k+ quantities the laptops cost as much as desktops when UPS and associated wiring is included. Further at 30K the laptop may be expensive in India, but $0.8K is average weekly pay abroad. So every one, manager or not gets a laptop.
4. Portability. Every one can carry their laptops around, within office or out of it. So your office travels with you. Same as cell phones & Blackberries. Let us face it the corporates not we gain when we are given phones and laptops.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 11:54   #1540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
The reason corporate world is going for laptops are following
Add another fact...
Company isn't strict on office timing; ask employees to leave sharp 6:00 PM, no cab facilities to be provided, no allowances to be provided, yet work is carried home & is completed; provided it can be done over internet. Company saves on cost, employee probably saves on time.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 11:57   #1541
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My own personal opinion about laptops:

1. Get stuck with 15-16 inch screens compared with >20 and even 30 inch for desktops.
2. Try running a VM in a laptop and you may find that why so many IT experts prefer a desktop. Of course you can run a VM but it is a huge compromise with RAM and screen sizes.
3. Very limited upscalability. Can you put a decent amount of RAM there. Or HDD? or perhaps a bigger screen?. or perhaps any of the many consumables. Even if you can, at what cost.
4. even the latest processors for a laptop would be more expensive than a desktop and have lesser power.
5. Difficult to find the same spec. for a laptop or even if you, it will be a lot more expensive.
6. Laptops available are generally either preloaded with OS and a lot of bloatware. No choice at all or a lot of workarounds. If you just want a DOS based laptop, you are stuck with low-end, low powered, low screen resolution crap.

As another poster remarked, laptops are good for portability, period. Nothing else. I personally have always stuck with desktops (even at work where we get an option). It is like moving into a rented apartment (as it is) and moving into your own built. Of course, a lot more easier to build an own desktop. Just 1 day to order, and 2 hours to assemble. Then load all the OS and apps you want in lesser time and at a faster speed.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 13:04   #1542
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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
My own personal opinion about laptops:

1. Get stuck with 15-16 inch screens compared with >20 and even 30 inch for desktops.
How many users want 20+ inch monitor? You can always add a second one at the desk. I do, and I get a dual screen set up. By the way Lenovo has a dual screen laptop! Lenovo - Customize - ThinkPad W701ds laptop with dual screens and discrete graphics - Components, that is dual screen with 16GB RAM etc

2. Try running a VM in a laptop and you may find that why so many IT experts prefer a desktop. Of course you can run a VM but it is a huge compromise with RAM and screen sizes.
My son's Vio has 6GB RAM, can add another 2GB; with Win7. He runs VM - XP, Linux and has no issues. In fact the XP runs faster than his HP with XP.

3. Very limited upscalability. Can you put a decent amount of RAM there. Or HDD? or perhaps a bigger screen?. or perhaps any of the many consumables. Even if you can, at what cost.
Even Desktop HDD counts normally stops at 4. On my Desktop I have 6 HDD running, and still use external USB disks for data archiving/portability.

4. even the latest processors for a laptop would be more expensive than a desktop and have lesser power.
As I had stated in my previous post. If you require horse power then nothing beats a dual quad Xeon desktop. That said, how many users require extreme power. For 90% of users even the laptop CPU is overkill Else look at point 1.
.
5. Difficult to find the same spec. for a laptop or even if you, it will be a lot more expensive.
The cost is coming down fast.

6. Laptops available are generally either preloaded with OS and a lot of bloatware. No choice at all or a lot of workarounds. If you just want a DOS based laptop, you are stuck with low-end, low powered, low screen resolution crap.
You can always load your favorite OS. I have yet to see a DOS application requiring powerful processor. Note that the modern laptop processors even the slowest ones are way ahead of the P-II and P-III of the DOS era (5-10 times)

As another poster remarked, laptops are good for portability, period. Nothing else. I personally have always stuck with desktops (even at work where we get an option). It is like moving into a rented apartment (as it is) and moving into your own built. Of course, a lot more easier to build an own desktop. Just 1 day to order, and 2 hours to assemble. Then load all the OS and apps you want in lesser time and at a faster speed.
I alluded to a normal corporate user whose major requirement is e-mail, word processing and spread sheet analysis. Of course there are requirements where desktops still rule. Some of these categories are
a) Power Users - CAD, CAM, GIS, Simulation, Super Computer users
b) Multiple Screens - Financial Services, CAD, CAM, GIS
c) Data Centre Servers
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Old 22nd September 2010, 13:26   #1543
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$4000+ in the US. Can we get such a piece in India and at that cost.
Honestly, can you get the same spec and same HDD for a laptop as you can get for a desktop.

I know you can run a 32 bit win 7 in a VM even with say 2-3 GB, but from my own experience, a critical RAM allocation for a win 7 64 bit in a VM is around 4 GB, CPU not being a constraint. With a VM, a dual-PC setup for my son is not required, and he can wreak anything he wants on that VM.

As to the prices, since you are a supplier in Nehru Place (bought a lot of stuff from there), you would know how much a similar spec for a desktop would cost and since I buy a lot of stuff every month, I know it would be a lot less.

Laptops are great for portability for me, and for not much else.

OK, since you are in Nehru Place (buy a lot of stuff off/on from that place), can you place a cost/performance comparison to this stuff and that Lenovo stuff:

core i 7 920
5 TB of HDD (1*5 TB incl. 1 WD Caviar Black)
MSI x58 M
9 GB DDR 3 1333 Mhz RAM

Regarding that DOS stuff, I did not mean running a PC out of DOS!!!. Rather, loading your own software. I do have a Technet Pro subscription and for anyone with that subscription, why should he pay for a Home Premium 32 bit and all the other stupid bloatware/trialware.

Finally, I am nothing of the 3 categories that you mention, but still I prefer the config that I have because it makes my PC experience a lot better.

Cost is coming down fast. That is the case for both desktops and laptops (you should know). Similarly for processors and everything else, and if you go by benchmarks and other tests, try getting a similar performance desktop CPU for a laptop. I would hazard to say that of course laptop performance is much better, but they lag behind desktops by at least 1 year in performance and perhaps more in cost.

Desktop HDDs stop at 4: could be for most cabinets but what is the size of those HDDs and at what cost as compared with laptops. Even a 1.5 TB HDD conventional 7200 is now at Rs. 4-4.5 K compared with say Rs. 3-3.5 K for a 500 Gb one in mid-2009. What about spin speeds.

How many RAM slots in a laptop and how much in a decent desktop. Win 7 32 bit minimum requirement is 1 GB but the word is minimum.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 13:31   #1544
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I second Aroy on this. We need to be aware of the fact that even 4 years back the ratio of the number of desktops to laptops would have been 4:1. Today it is 1:1 at most! (as perceived by me). I would expect the ratio to change more.
Infact if we go back into the first few pages of this thread, you will notice many talk of Desktops but the last few pages, there has been a marked increase in the number of laptops.
Commoditisation of laptops is already well under way and would increase by the day. And sooner than we can imagine, we could be seeing laptops to be cheaper than desktops.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 13:53   #1545
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Sorry for the back to back posts... exceeded the time limit


Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
core i 7 920
5 TB of HDD (1*5 TB incl. 1 WD Caviar Black)
MSI x58 M
9 GB DDR 3 1333 Mhz RAM
This is not what 99 % of users won't need. I have a laptop with Core i5 with 4 GB RAM running Windows 7 64 Bit and everything that I need works like a breeze. I also have used a Windows XP VM image on the same machine and it works fine. Maybe if I want Windows 7 to run on the VM, I can add another 4GB memory stick and it would work like a breeze.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Desktop HDDs stop at 4: could be for most cabinets but what is the size of those HDDs and at what cost as compared with laptops. Even a 1.5 TB HDD conventional 7200 is now at Rs. 4-4.5 K compared with say Rs. 3-3.5 K for a 500 Gb one in mid-2009. What about spin speeds.

How many RAM slots in a laptop and how much in a decent desktop. Win 7 32 bit minimum requirement is 1 GB but the word is minimum.
I am planning to pick up a Network hard drive fo 2 1TB drives mirrored to store all my media (music and video). The same would be accessible to both my laptop and my sisters at the same time over a Wifi network. Further planning to use an Apple Airport Extreme to stream audio into my Home Audio.
Can you achieve this versatility with a desktop? Maybe Yes / Maybe No. Why? - With all the cabling that you would need to do specially if you are in a rented apartment.
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