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Old 9th December 2011, 07:14   #2161
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

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Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
What do you think?
I agree DVDs would be a pain due to less capacity and fragile nature but Blu-ray can be of help if storage is not a problem as single disk can hold upto 100gb of data (quad layer). But nothing can make it scratch resistance either.

Memory cards on the other hand can be an alternative but given their small size, I find them a bit fiddly. Also, you'd need more than 10 cards to hold 500gig of your precious data and tagging/naming them be a challange too.Have you given any thoughts to SSD external HDDs? They are a bit expensive but they succeed HDDs when it comes to data access speed and less prone to failures (atleast, I haven't come accross any such case).

Moreover, 8 years later the same storage media would either succumb to wear and tear or hardware supporting that media will be obsolete anyway. If I were you, I'd only be worrying about next couple of years. Given technology trend these days, thinking over 3-4 years would be a bit too much.
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Old 9th December 2011, 09:44   #2162
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

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I am wondering which is a good media to store data for 5-8 years without losing it.
If data is less than 100 GB, cheapest option is to store it online with services like Amazon S3. Ned need to buy new media every few years or to take care of interfaces getting obsolete.
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Old 9th December 2011, 10:06   #2163
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Originally Posted by Punzabi View Post
I agree DVDs would be a pain due to less capacity and fragile nature but Blu-ray can be of help if storage is not a problem as single disk can hold upto 100gb of data (quad layer). But nothing can make it scratch resistance either.

Memory cards on the other hand can be an alternative but given their small size, I find them a bit fiddly. Also, you'd need more than 10 cards to hold 500gig of your precious data and tagging/naming them be a challange too.Have you given any thoughts to SSD external HDDs? They are a bit expensive but they succeed HDDs when it comes to data access speed and less prone to failures (atleast, I haven't come accross any such case).

Moreover, 8 years later the same storage media would either succumb to wear and tear or hardware supporting that media will be obsolete anyway. If I were you, I'd only be worrying about next couple of years. Given technology trend these days, thinking over 3-4 years would be a bit too much.
I thought about hdd/ssd/external hdd. but most of them have similar disadvantage. the problem again is its magnetic so prone to failure just like you gave example of your friend.

i have to worry for 8 years since its sensitive data and it has legal implications. don't really matter if it has hardware support at that time or not.

for eg, you and I may feel floppy disk are obsolete, but its hardware is still available and its used in some sectors.

I am having hard time deciding between SSDs and CF cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
If data is less than 100 GB, cheapest option is to store it online with services like Amazon S3. Ned need to buy new media every few years or to take care of interfaces getting obsolete.
The size is 500 gb and every year its gonna grow. Also, cloud or online is not an options as it is sensitive data. I don't need it for short term back up, i need it for long term archiving.
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Old 9th December 2011, 11:29   #2164
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

DVD are not as good as CD for long term storage, but offer more capacity per platter!

HDD has a major problem if kept inactive. The disk may refuse to start after a couple of years of inactivity.

The most robust media is the 1/2" magnetic reel tape, as the densities are low and failure rate extremely low. The only problem is access to a 1/2 tape drive.

What I can think of as a viable storage is
. 500GB HDD, kept online. A mirror copy maintained on another system. For archival storage use the 5400 or lower RPM HDD. They run cooler and last longer.
. Every six months copy the contents to another HDD, verify the data integrity, format the HDD, and copy data back to it. This will ensure that the data integrity is maintained. The magnetic surface is also refreshed extending its life.
. Keep adding 500GB to expand storage. Desist from higher capacity HDD as they will have higher data density = higher failure possibility.
. If possible use a Linux OS (or any other whose source is freely available) to maintain the data base, as the OS can be tuned to your need your self, no dependence on the vendor for supporting the older hardware.

You can even think of maintaining your backup on 500GB 2 1/2" external USB drives, just connect them up every month and follow the copy-format-copy sequence to maintain the data integrity.
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Old 9th December 2011, 11:47   #2165
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

Nothing beats well stored digital tape when preserving data is of utmost importance.

Otherwise just setup a pair of hard drive in RAID-1, store your data, disconnect and keep it in a secure place.
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Old 9th December 2011, 12:27   #2166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevelle

I thought about hdd/ssd/external hdd. but most of them have similar disadvantage. the problem again is its magnetic so prone to failure just like you gave example of your friend.

i have to worry for 8 years since its sensitive data and it has legal implications. don't really matter if it has hardware support at that time or not.

for eg, you and I may feel floppy disk are obsolete, but its hardware is still available and its used in some sectors.

I am having hard time deciding between SSDs and CF cards.

The size is 500 gb and every year its gonna grow. Also, cloud or online is not an options as it is sensitive data. I don't need it for short term back up, i need it for long term archiving.
I believe for this kind of requirement SSD would be most suitable. Also SSDs are not megnatic drives, they are just mamoth version of a memory card/usb stick. If you need to back up just a single set of data & it wont grow overtime, then in that case SSD would be an overkill. If your data size will be growing each year, you can safely go for SSD.

You can go for raid configuration but for that you need to have an operating system & hardwar to support raid feature.
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Old 9th December 2011, 13:47   #2167
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

I would not recommend RAID, as it is totally dependent on the Hardware/Software combination. In long term any problem in any part of the chain and your data is gone. Go for disk mirroring, as the disks can be read on a stand alone basis.

Unlike magnetic devices, solid state memories can get corrupted easily - heat, electrostatic charge, leakage etc, not that magnetic material are invulnerable, but they have been with us a long time and their retention capacity proven.

On the whole what ever media you choose
. keep duplicates
. check data integrity at least once a year
. renew/replace the media at least once in three years

That way you will have no surprises after 8-10 years.
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Old 9th December 2011, 14:02   #2168
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

Go for Network Storage Server or build one. NSS comes with RAID1 and most of them run on Linux. If you opt for building one, run the OS in a dedicated Hard drive and the Data on separate RAID 1 drives. They are cheap to maintain and you can keep increasing their capacity as you need them. I have maintained NSS from 2000 starting with a hard disk capacity of 40 GB to the present day 1 TB capacity. For sensitive business use, it is safer to rely on your own resources/servers than external 3rd party services.
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Old 9th December 2011, 15:37   #2169
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
I am having hard time deciding between SSDs and CF cards.
Neither is an option for long term storage. That is unless you create a system to maintaining two copies AND validating copies periodically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
Also, cloud or online is not an options as it is sensitive data.
Data sensitivity is not an issue with offsite storage (E.g. cloud). You can encrypt the data before it leaves your premisses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
it has legal implications.
What is worse in this case:
1. Unintended disclosure
2. Loss of data

Answer to that usually drives the technical and logistical choices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
I don't need it for short term back up, i need it for long term archiving.
Standard answer is you use multiple encrypted copies of archival tapes + offsite storage of tapes+ system of periodical validation.

However, this choice would obviously depend on Legal + Contractual requirements and cost.
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Old 9th December 2011, 20:33   #2170
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

I have assembled a rig for gaming and work purposes:

i7 2600K
ASUS P8Z68 V pro
8GB Vengeance Corsair 1600 mhz RAM
2GB Sapphire Radeon 6950
1TB HDD seagate 7200 rpm
Cool Master 690 II Advanced
GlacialPower GP 950w PSU
HP DVD Writer
Dell u2312HM monitor

I am now looking out for:
1. a good typing keyboard. I heard good thing about mechanical keyboard. which one to get?
2. a SSD for booting windows 7. is 60 GB size enough for win7 and other apps? Which one to get again?
3. Should I upgrade to CPU liquid cooler fan (because I plan to Overclock the CPU to 4.0 or 4.4 GHz and above.

Last edited by iTNerd : 9th December 2011 at 20:35.
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Old 9th December 2011, 20:44   #2171
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
I am now looking out for:
1. a good typing keyboard. I heard good thing about mechanical keyboard. which one to get?
2. a SSD for booting windows 7. is 60 GB size enough for win7 and other apps? Which one to get again?
3. Should I upgrade to CPU liquid cooler fan (because I plan to Overclock the CPU to 4.0 or 4.4 GHz and above.

1) TVS Gold. Nothing beats it's VFM, costs about 1500 I guess but it looks pretty plain. If you are having a higher budget and want some eye-candy, then you could go in for something like Razer BlackWidow which costs 4k.

2) I know a friend using Gskill 64GB SSD and he has no problems till date. Costs about 7.6k.

3) Yes, for such overclocking, liquid cooling for the processor is recommended. Corsair H series costs anywhere between 4.1-7.2k depending on which model you choose.
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Old 9th December 2011, 20:50   #2172
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

My core PC configuration that has served me well for the past 3+ years while being future proof & able to handle pretty much anything I throw at it

CPU Core2Quad Q6600 overclock 3.66 GHz
Asus P5Q VM(2 years old)
OCZ Gold XTC DDR2-800 4-4-4-12 RAM @ 977-1005 MHz
3TB(total) WD Caviar Black hard disks(upgraded recently)
Nvidia GTX 260 core 216 GPU
Coolermaster 690 chassis
Coolermaster RP 600 PCAR 600W Power Supply
Intel 320 series 80GB SSD (upgraded recently)
Coolermaster GeminII huge heatsink
Logitech MX518 Mouse

Upgrading cooling to Corsair H70 liquid cooling. The Q6600 has been the most future proof CPU released by Intel till date. It still has a great amount of multi core potential available on the slightest overclock. It has is the only CPU that I've retained for more than 3 years.

Thinking of making a jump directly to Ivy bridge (LGA 2011) as & when the mainstream CPUs come out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Nothing beats well stored digital tape when preserving data is of utmost importance.

Otherwise just setup a pair of hard drive in RAID-1, store your data, disconnect and keep it in a secure place.
Digital tape is a cost effective mode of data storage but, in the long term, proves to be very dicey. The reading devices become obsolete & new standards are established. I still remember when DLT was superseded by LTO. We were left scratching our heads when there were neither tapes nor recorders were available in the market.

Hard disk standards also evolve over time. Who knows SATA may be obsolete'fied in the future. Motherboard manufacturers already omit the IDE port & favor SATA ports.NAS(network attached storage) is best for long term needs.

Last edited by JustCause : 9th December 2011 at 21:03.
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Old 9th December 2011, 21:30   #2173
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Neither is an option for long term storage. That is unless you create a system to maintaining two copies AND validating copies periodically.

Data sensitivity is not an issue with offsite storage (E.g. cloud). You can encrypt the data before it leaves your premisses.

What is worse in this case:
1. Unintended disclosure
2. Loss of data

Answer to that usually drives the technical and logistical choices.

Standard answer is you use multiple encrypted copies of archival tapes + offsite storage of tapes+ system of periodical validation.

However, this choice would obviously depend on Legal + Contractual requirements and cost.
This will be a spare copy which will be kept off-site. This is to actually follow legality of a company. One has to have a data off-site here which has to be valid for 8 years, so have to do it. Since its end of year, the priority has increased. So the data should not be lost if any time during 8 year period it is to be recovered.

Lets say, cost is not a high priority. Safe, secured, long term off site storage is only criteria.

And i like your standard answer. That is what we want to do. Too bad archival tapes are not easily available here. But it will be off site storage and periodical validation will be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
Go for Network Storage Server or build one. NSS comes with RAID1 and most of them run on Linux. If you opt for building one, run the OS in a dedicated Hard drive and the Data on separate RAID 1 drives. They are cheap to maintain and you can keep increasing their capacity as you need them. I have maintained NSS from 2000 starting with a hard disk capacity of 40 GB to the present day 1 TB capacity. For sensitive business use, it is safer to rely on your own resources/servers than external 3rd party services.
This is good idea. But we have a NSS. But it very unreliable for data transfer. It has Raid 10 for now. Sometimes data gets copied and sometimes not. I don't find it reliable for long period of time. And this is on-site. I need something which can be taken off-site easily without any worries and stay at a place for long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post

On the whole what ever media you choose
. keep duplicates
. check data integrity at least once a year
. renew/replace the media at least once in three years

That way you will have no surprises after 8-10 years.
Duplicates will be maintained. It will be checked for data integrity twice a year. The third is something which we don't wanna do and so i am looking for long term solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punzabi View Post
I believe for this kind of requirement SSD would be most suitable. Also SSDs are not megnatic drives, they are just mamoth version of a memory card/usb stick. If you need to back up just a single set of data & it wont grow overtime, then in that case SSD would be an overkill. If your data size will be growing each year, you can safely go for SSD.

You can go for raid configuration but for that you need to have an operating system & hardwar to support raid feature.
SSD is a good option. I will consider that. I will also consider NSS with smaller footprint. The data will grow, but we are still debating on whether to add to current data or get a new storage for next year's data.

Last edited by chevelle : 9th December 2011 at 21:35.
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Old 9th December 2011, 21:56   #2174
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

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Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
Lets say, cost is not a high priority. Safe, secured, long term off site storage is only criteria.
Then using a certified backup provider would be the easiest option.

Such a provider:

1. Should be certified for that particular Industry (E.g. HIPAA or DOD)
2. Must maintain copies in at least two Data Centers (In different seismic zones)
3. Have Insurance against data loss that is equal to maximum civil liabilities in case of data loss
4. Should give complete control over encryption to customer

For 1 TB data, cost should be around 80K per year
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Old 9th December 2011, 22:08   #2175
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Default re: The Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Then using a certified backup provider would be the easiest option.

Such a provider:

1. Should be certified for that particular Industry (E.g. HIPAA or DOD)
2. Must maintain copies in at least two Data Centers (In different seismic zones)
3. Have Insurance against data loss that is equal to maximum civil liabilities in case of data loss
4. Should give complete control over encryption to customer

For 1 TB data, cost should be around 80K per year
This is the first option we considered at start. But, in States, its super expensive and thus makes sense to do all of above on our own.
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