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Old 31st October 2007, 13:31   #556
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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post

Contrast ratio ( Higher the better)
Color reproduction ( 12.8 billion colors etc)
Refresh time ( 8ms or even better maybe 6ms or 5ms)
HDMI ports available
PIP availability and how many frames on the screen
hz ( now that you have enlightened me)
1. Contrast ratio: 7000:1, 8000:1, 10000:1 etc., are all bogus. They are measured in absolute darkness. If there is a candle burning in the room, everything above 1000:1 will look the same. If you can somehow create a very dark room, everything above 1500:1 will look same.
2. Color reproduction : Billions of colors, millions of colors.... Well trust your eyes, its mostly hogwash
3. Important, but 5ms response time could be worse than 10ms, it depends on how it is measured. Companies use Grey to Grey, so multiply it by 2.5 to get actual figure. It should be less than 15ms. So all newer ones with 5 or 6ms are same. Even 8ms is okay. But correct the lower the better
4. Definitely important if you have multiple HDMI devices
5. PIP... important for some
6. Hz. Most important. Try watching an action movie on a 42" LCD from 4 feet distance. You will get a headache. For 32" its not that much of an issue, but for larger sets definitely!
7. Resulution : 1080p is a must have for a 37" or 40"+ set. Do not compromise on this 1080p is true HD. So TV must have true HD not just true HD ready as most 32" are. Infact you do not get true HD 32" in India(there is one by sharp but I did not see it anywhere)
8. Looks : It should look good. Whats the point of an ugly LCD TV
9. Tuner. Get one with a QAM tuner if possible. Not very important, but a bonus. Hard to verify this though
10. Make sure it has component in along with standard AV in
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Old 31st October 2007, 13:39   #557
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
3. Important, but 5ms response time could be worse than 10ms, it depends on how it is measured. Companies use Grey to Grey, so multiply it by 2.5 to get actual figure. It should be less than 15ms. So all newer ones with 5 or 6ms are same. Even 8ms is okay. But correct the lower the better
7. Resulution : 1080p is a must have for a 37" or 40"+ set. Do not compromise on this 1080p is true HD. So TV must have true HD not just true HD ready as most 32" are. Infact you do not get true HD 32" in India(there is one by sharp but I did not see it anywhere)
About these, how to investigate as Samsung R8 is 8ms ( as mentioned) is a true 8ms? Also, obviously at that price it wont be HD available but ready, so its mentioned as HD ready. what does this mean and how do i confirm that through HDMI connectivity i will get 1080p?
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Old 31st October 2007, 14:35   #558
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The 32" R8 does not have the high 1920x1080 resolution. thats whats needed for true HD.
When you see a 32" television which is HD ready but 1366x768 it means that internally it will downgrade it to 1366x768.
In 42" space TVs are 1920x1080, and those are HD.
Many companies put the logo "True HD" to diffrentiate from HD ready.
Most 42" from good brands are true HD, otherwise whats the point of having 1920x1080 resolution.
Some older models are 1080i, which is not same as 1080p.
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Old 31st October 2007, 14:53   #559
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True HD is not required below 40", unless you are going to use it for gaming or watch it really closely.
At 40-42" it's an option, however most viewers will not be able to distinguish between HD ready and True HD from 2 meters distance. But if you really want it then you can go for it. (pl check yourself by observing the HD signal on HD ready and Full HD)

Above 42" full HD makes sense.

But keep in mind, as of today we have almost no full HD source in India. You would need a HD-DVD player / Blue ray player along with regular supply of HD media for 1080p to really make sense.
If you have an Xbox or Playstations with HD output then you can very well go for True HD.


Finally, regular DVDs look better on 780p (HD ready Tvs), because their native resolution is close to the source resolution, which leads to lower interpolation related artifacts.
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Old 31st October 2007, 15:09   #560
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Quote:
1. Contrast ratio: 7000:1, 8000:1, 10000:1 etc., are all bogus. They are measured in absolute darkness. If there is a candle burning in the room, everything above 1000:1 will look the same. If you can somehow create a very dark room, everything above 1500:1 will look same.
2. Color reproduction : Billions of colors, millions of colors.... Well trust your eyes, its mostly hogwash
This is not correct.
Contrast ratio has a lot to do with ability to show better blacks.i.e with better contrast you can see the details in darker scenes.
For Contrast absolute numbers should be checked and not Dynamic contrast.

Ambient light in the room is more related to the brightness offered by the TV, and there is less to do with the contrast.


Again number of colours is important and it depends on what bit panel is used. Current television mostly use 8 bit panel. More number of colors will give better skin tones and less solarization effect.

Contrast and Colours will not matter once they reach a certain threshold - where CRTs (and few Plasmas) have reached today. However common LCDs are far behind and till then these specs do matter a lot!

Finally 100HZ technology is still in it's infancy and there are lot of issues related to them. In reviews people have preferred to keep 100hz mode switched off in favor 60hz.
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Old 31st October 2007, 15:19   #561
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If your lights are on, true contrast ratio of 700:1 will look same as 1600:1.
Read this article
Contrast ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the way its being measured, has made it lose its meaning.
For example I was viewing two samsung models playing from same HD(32" models)
There was absolutely no difference between the two.
Infact the LG which was playing with the same media(10000:1) also looked the same.
So that factor is not to be bothered about much.
Also look at
The Contrast Ratio Game: Playing with Numbers
Weber and contrast ratios

Last edited by tsk1979 : 31st October 2007 at 15:21.
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Old 31st October 2007, 15:58   #562
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I can make out the difference in picture in tvs with different contrast ratios in the dark. To really enjoy a movie its really important to watch it in darkness and a tv with a poor contrast ratio making the blacks look more like grey can really change the entire experience for you.

Contrast Ratio is definatly something to be looked at when selecting a tv.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:04   #563
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The contrast ratio of clean movie print is around 500:1. We watch movies in the dark in a theater. Beyond 1500:1 you need to be a robot to make out any difference. Read the numbers game article.
No LCD screen has a constant contrast ratio. They simply take the brighest point anywhere in the screen, and darkest point anywhere and then say "whoopie" 12000:1
Thats called dynamic contrast ratio.
Even with lights off, anything above 1000:1 will be useless.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:22   #564
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The wiki article clearly mentions that Plasma panel with 5000:1 static contrast ratio will look much better than the LCD panel with 1000:1 contrast ratio in ambient light!

Quote:
How much the room light reduces the contrast ratio depends on the luminance of the display, as well as the amount of light reflecting off the display.
While you need only little contrast in dark, in a well lit room you need higher static contrast to compensate for the ambient light reflected of the screen.


Anyway, I would go by my observation rather than specs.
We all know hyundai Horses (horsepower) is weaker than Honda horses

Last edited by ST7677 : 31st October 2007 at 16:31.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:36   #565
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This article is the one which explains the standards and such and how do companies play with numbers
The Contrast Ratio Game: Playing with Numbers
Its more detailed and technical than wiki.
In a more well lit room, you need "lesser" contrast ratio, and not more contrast ratio. In a highly lit room you need more "cd" or candela brightness not more contrast ratio.
When there is ambient light, your black is not that black.
So two TVs one which is blacker and another which is not so black will look similar, because the ambient light will turn both to greyish
When you turn off the lights
, you do notice the difference.
For example when I bought right next to the LG I got there was a Onida model. both were playing DVD, and quality looked same, but when the showroom guys switched off all the lights of the viewing room, the onida blacks were definitely grey, while LG background was blacker.

Anyways trust your eyes.
At a showroom watch a TV, some night scene. Ask them to turn off all the lights, and you will notice that the picture does not look as nice as it did before.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:42   #566
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
For example when I bought right next to the LG I got there was a Onida model. both were playing DVD, and quality looked same, but when the showroom guys switched off all the lights of the viewing room, the onida blacks were definitely grey, while LG background was blacker.
Thats exactly what im trying to say, the contrast ratio does make a difference.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:44   #567
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I am deciding on a 37inch LCD with Full HD 1080p ... the only one available according to my chap is Hitach for 62k
Hitachi 37LD9800TA (37-inch LCD) - TV Review - CNET Asia

Is this a good choice or are there any other options i could consider?
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:56   #568
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Originally Posted by Sahil View Post
I am deciding on a 37inch LCD with Full HD 1080p ... the only one available according to my chap is Hitach for 62k
Hitachi 37LD9800TA (37-inch LCD) - TV Review - CNET Asia

Is this a good choice or are there any other options i could consider?
hitachi is very good. buy it.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:59   #569
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^^ Any reason for picking a 37"? If space isnt a problem and you can stretch your budget a little why not look at 40" where you will be able to chose from a lot mroe tvs.

Also dont be too worried about 1080p. Most content avaiable is 720p including most ps3 games which are simply upscaled to 1080p. Bluray movies are probably the only 1080p content you have right now.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:59   #570
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Quote:
Read the numbers game article.
That article is more appropriate for the projector (reflection) systems, where ambient light directly determines the best black. However in LCD's / Plasma (Emission) systems, how black is black depends on how black the mfg can make the screen look, while the light is on. there are various ways of making the black more black. Some real some illusions.

2 points which determine how black is black...
1. How Ambient light is handled - In both cases (reflection & emission), it depends on how much light the screen reflects and how. In case of projector (reflection) system, controlling black level with ambient light is very difficult because the screen is supposed create image by reflection. Hence less importance of projector Contrast ratio wrt ambient light. (In projector home theater, choosing the right display screen for the projection is very important and they run into 000's of USD to create higher contrast).

On plasmas & CRTs & few high end LCDs with glossy finish (where screen reflects, glares) the blacks look much more deeper, where as on anti-glare matt finished screens (most LCDs) the blacks looks dull.
This is because the second category (matt finish) disperses the ambient light loosely making the overall screen less black, where as the first category (glossy-glass like) reflects the light without much dispersion (creating a glare).
So a glossy screen would give you a much darker black, unless you are in line of glare in which case you will see a reflection.

2. How black the screen is when it is On and is supposed to be black - This is basically the leakage of backlight / neighbouring cells causing the black scenes to look gray.

Lower of Point 1 & 2 together will determine the real contrast visible to eye in ambient situation.
And I would always want to check the TV for it's brightness / Contrast / Color in a tubelight level ambient light - in which I will mostly watch it at home

Last edited by ST7677 : 31st October 2007 at 17:07.
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