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Old 13th August 2015, 20:23   #3766
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Default re: The Online Shopping Thread

It is going to be the Indian dot-com bubble, right?

How can these businesses go on raking in finance without actually making any money?

I'm surprised at Amazon, with their vast international experience. Wouldn't they have been around during the fist .com collapse?
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Old 13th August 2015, 20:40   #3767
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
It is going to be the Indian dot-com bubble, right?

How can these businesses go on raking in finance without actually making any money?

I'm surprised at Amazon, with their vast international experience. Wouldn't they have been around during the fist .com collapse?
Signs are already showing up. Portals like Housing.com are in deep trouble. I would call this Indian mobile app bubble. Now a days you have even apps to search nearest rest rooms. I am perplexed why this app craze is not present in other countries.
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Old 13th August 2015, 21:11   #3768
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I am perplexed why this app craze is not present in other countries....
Maybe because there are more computers on more desks in more homes with broadband connections? I don't know, just guessing.

Maybe there is also a cultural inclination towards mobiles here: it seems to be India's favourite gadget.
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Old 13th August 2015, 21:26   #3769
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I think this used to be case couple of months ago - flash sales & highly discounted products , perhaps these guys wanted to build traffic on their sites . I have seen cheaper prices for many parts at physical stores nowadays - maybe online portals have reduced discounts and market stores fed up with online prices have started offering discounts . I don't think amazon is losing money like mentioned by Spice CEO . They might be losing on logistics / returns though .

This apart , what about Uber & OLA which pay some fixed - I think Rs 1500 / 1300 to driver irrespective of rides / earning - I am sure these 2 companies are losing money like anything . Will be interesting if its possible to know % of commercial sales from monthly sales figures of Maruti - Dzire & Toyota - Etios siblings - at least in this part there has been huge demand in past 6 months or so . There is definitely big bubble going to get busted in Taxi segment for sure

Last edited by Turbanator : 13th August 2015 at 21:28.
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Old 13th August 2015, 22:21   #3770
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Mr Harsh Goenka (owner of RPG Enterprises, i.e Spice Telecom) posted on twitter today that Snapdeal, Amazon and FK lose (or spend) Rs 1.7, 1.9 and 2.2 for every rupee they make. If so, the party won't last much longer!

/He may have a vested interest being the owner of Spice whose a brick/mortar retailer in direct competition
Harsh Goenka perhaps does not even understand or had read up on the Amazon business model.

Amazon posts losses because it invests like crazy new things like Fulfillment centers - its method to keep the shipping cost less. The retail business of Amazon is profitable.

I suggest people read up on this. Others may be playing on short term pricing - Amazon is in a different game altogether.
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Old 13th August 2015, 22:40   #3771
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Does customs have the final say in deciding the duty or can we challenge it?
I bought some motorcycling gear from Germany just to test the international buying experience (Not too expensive stuff thankfully). The customs guys have charged me a whopping 40%

I'm sure customs have ripped me off. Looks like they have charged the maximum possible duty for riding gear.

Last edited by theredliner : 13th August 2015 at 22:42.
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Old 14th August 2015, 09:37   #3772
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Harsh Goenka (owner of RPG Enterprises, i.e Spice Telecom) posted on twitter today that Snapdeal, Amazon and FK lose (or spend) Rs 1.7, 1.9 and 2.2 for every rupee they make. If so, the party won't last much longer!
Harsh Goenka is probably expressing his hope or desire; as long as these companies are able to show a clear path towards profitability they will always be able to raise money and sustain short-term losses. In my view we are past the point of no return; the surge of e-/m-commerce in India cannot be reversed or decelerated now. The old-school businessmen would be best advised to wake up and smell the coffee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
How can these businesses go on raking in finance without actually making any money? I'm surprised at Amazon, with their vast international experience.
Amazon globally is a highly profitable company. Take a look: https://www.google.com/finance?fstype=ii&q=NASDAQ:AMZN

You can see that in last quarter (April-June), they made 15% EBITDA on $23 billion sales (I am discounting R&D expenses) and that they're sitting on a cashpile of $14 billion.

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Signs are already showing up. Portals like Housing.com are in deep trouble. I would call this Indian mobile app bubble. Now a days you have even apps to search nearest rest rooms. I am perplexed why this app craze is not present in other countries.
Can't see how housing.com's troubles (which are largely self-inflicted and not just by RY, btw) can be indicative of a "mobile app bubble", considering they are predominantly web-based.

As for the app craze - it is by now well-established that Indians access Internet predominantly via mobiles (I think the ratio is worse than 10:1). But why apps and not mobile websites? It seems to me that the incremental resources required to have an app is so less, but the benefits so high (better data, better control, better targetting etc.) that having an app is a no-brainer decision for most COOs.
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Old 14th August 2015, 13:37   #3773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Mr Harsh Goenka (owner of RPG Enterprises, i.e Spice Telecom) posted on twitter today that Snapdeal, Amazon and FK lose (or spend) Rs 1.7, 1.9 and 2.2 for every rupee they make. If so, the party won't last much longer!

/He may have a vested interest being the owner of Spice whose a brick/mortar retailer in direct competition
It is the investors who are burning cash. The online players are only interested in revenue/ turnover - not profits.
That helps them attract more investors.
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Old 14th August 2015, 15:00   #3774
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Are the cash back by credit card companies paid back into card account without remainders
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Old 14th August 2015, 15:02   #3775
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Are the cash back by credit card companies paid back into card account without remainders
Yes. SBI was prompt when I got my iPad.
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Old 14th August 2015, 15:13   #3776
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Yes. SBI was prompt when I got my iPad.
In case if ICICI I had to fight for it. spend some 30 mins writing mails.
Same is case is with Indus Ind bank cards.
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Old 14th August 2015, 21:28   #3777
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Ordered 3 items from Flipkart last Sunday. Got an sms today that 2 out of the 3 orders have been cancelled as the item went out of stock! Got one order delivered yesterday, but the product delivered was incorrect. We had ordered a Granite cookware set, and they sent us the regular non stick cookware!! The other 2 orders cancelled also belonged to the Cookware category.
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Old 14th August 2015, 22:00   #3778
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Does customs have the final say in deciding the duty or can we challenge it?
I bought some motorcycling gear from Germany just to test the international buying experience (Not too expensive stuff thankfully). The customs guys have charged me a whopping 40%
They are indeed final authority but normally they wont overcharge or rip you ,your courier guy must have given you details of duty charged , I am not aware about % of duty on riding gear but you can Google & calculate . your receipt should have a basic value termed as Assessable value - if you divide this with exchange rate of that month ( should be mentioned on receipt - for this month about 70,45 ) you should have values in Euros considering your import from germany , now if this value is same as that on your actual invoice - what you paid to your vendor - then they have not loaded anything . Sometimes if they have a similar product on there Import records at higher prices - they charge duty on higher amount .
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Old 14th August 2015, 22:35   #3779
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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
Does customs have the final say in deciding the duty or can we challenge it?
I bought some motorcycling gear from Germany just to test the international buying experience (Not too expensive stuff thankfully). The customs guys have charged me a whopping 40%

I'm sure customs have ripped me off. Looks like they have charged the maximum possible duty for riding gear.
I bought a Leather jacket and it was shipped from the USA, I was charged net 20% customs. The rates must have gone up now.

Or, apart from the specified customs, they charge additional 12.5% and 3%. Maybe that drove up the typical 25% to 40% in your case.
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Old 14th August 2015, 23:35   #3780
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The customs duty is not applied on a whim(typical 25 to 40). Each and every type of category of goods has a duty specified to it. Then again within each category the rates may vary depending on what the exact item is. There is a code given for each category and a sub code for each item. The codes are uniform for the given item globally, the rates of duty on each item vary from one country to another.

The duty is structured as follows
Take CIF (cost,insurance & freight)
Apply Basic customs duty
Apply Countervailing duty (CVD)
Apply Eductaion Cess on the Basic duty+CVD
Apply Special duty
Apply CVD on special duty
Apply Education Cess on Special duty + CVD on special duty

The sum total of all of the above is what you see on the bill of entry copy that the courier would have give to you

For absolute decimal point rates of how much duty applies on what you can refer to the Customs & Excise duty manual. This is easily available in the market as well as online.

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Originally Posted by SunnyBoi View Post
I bought a Leather jacket and it was shipped from the USA, I was charged net 20% customs. The rates must have gone up now.

Or, apart from the specified customs, they charge additional 12.5% and 3%. Maybe that drove up the typical 25% to 40% in your case.
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