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Old 17th June 2010, 12:08   #331
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@icemanz - you can look at Su-Kam and Luminous inverters as well. Though Su-Kam has been a tried and tested one for me - works like a beauty!


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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
There was a recent post -->this one about a setup much bigger than you are asking for, but what surprised me was the running cost.
If competitors are to be believed, you might be even more surprised that the running costs here are a bit on the conservative side (a la claimed FE on cars under standard conditions ). At least this is what has been communicated to me by Cummins person about the fuel consumption of Kirloskar gensets - could be a marketing talk too because Cummins claims 2.7 liters of diesel consumption on a 10 KVA genset of itself.

Anyway, seems I am drifting more towards Cummins silent genset of 10 KVA. The details are as under -
Genset Cost - 2,00,000/-
Excise - 26,130/- (@13.15%)
Automatic Panel - 21,000
Installation Consumables (earthing + cabling) - 10,000/- (approx)

Total - 2.57 Lac

Now this compared to Kirloskar's offer of 2.8L seems to be more lucrative deal.

I understand that Kirloskar and Cummins, at one point of time had a JV in India, but later they parted ways. Since Kirloskar depended on Cummins for technology transfer, my hunch is that Cummins equipments would be better than Kirloskar's.

Anybody on the forum having experience with Kirloskar/Cummins? Please advise

TIA!

Last edited by AlokSriva : 17th June 2010 at 12:13. Reason: Added note for icemanz
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Old 17th June 2010, 12:40   #332
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...
Is Microtek the best brand inverter or there are others I can look for? Please suggest.
I have no way to tell which is the best! I have had very good experience with Luminous but have never tried Su-Kam. I expect they are all nearly equal.
Look for the best response to a call for service, by making a 'false' phone call and see who responds the fastest.
Ask if they'd give a back up service inverter if yours were to be taken away for repairs. etc...
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Old 18th June 2010, 01:49   #333
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Originally Posted by icemanz View Post
Is Microtek the best brand inverter or there are others I can look for? Please suggest.
It is not only the brand, but the service that matters. I have had bad experience with Su-Kam and microtek in our cochin office. Luminous is good. We are currenlty using Hykon digital inverter with Xtam tubular batteries for the past two years, no complaints whatsoever till now (touch wood). I suggest you go for it.

with a pc, 2 cfl, and 2 fan you just need a 600 va inverter, but for backup you will require about two 150 ah batteries.

Last edited by Chipz : 18th June 2010 at 01:50.
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Old 21st June 2010, 21:59   #334
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@Chipz thanks for the information. I will have a look at Hykon as well.
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Old 30th June 2010, 15:32   #335
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Finally took the plunge and got home Cummins 10KVA silent genset with automatic panel over the weekend. Total cost, after a lot of negotiations, came out to be approx 2.6L

Engine is still running in, and therefore, in last 3 days, had to call up the service engineer as the genset won't start up automatically. Finally it was identified today that there was a loose pipe which was causing air lock. Got it tightened and hopefully the daily call to the service engineer would be over

The only gripe I have is taxes (a total of 13.15%) an individual has to pay on buying a DGset. Businesses have an option of paying only 2% in taxes by submitting Form-C. No such respite for individual buyers Not to mention they can claim tax benefits on the purchase (a depreciating asset and the operational costs, being a business expense, again reduce the tax liability). I often wonder why don't I open up a ghost consultancy firm and book all my expenses there!!

But yes, all said and done, within 5 seconds of a power outage, the auto panel shows its true value and all your electrical/electronic appliances are up and running. Last but not the least, you don't need to keep an eye if the mains supply has been restored - auto panel does it for you and ensures the genset doesn't run for even an extra one second!

Though the unit is kept in the front compound, we find diesel fumes finding their way on the lower level of the house on occasions. Probably that's one non-tangible cost one has to pay for a tangible convenience.

Thanks to all on this forum who provided their inputs which helped me tremendously in decision making. Else I had almost signed the deal for an equal capacity Sukam inverter..

Last edited by AlokSriva : 30th June 2010 at 15:34. Reason: typo
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Old 1st July 2010, 13:03   #336
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Though the unit is kept in the front compound, we find diesel fumes finding their way on the lower level of the house on occasions.
My neighbor installed one such unit some time ago. Others protested about the smoke issue and he raised the chimney stake higher. This way the smoke is dispersed high.
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Old 1st July 2010, 14:27   #337
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My neighbor installed one such unit some time ago. Others protested about the smoke issue and he raised the chimney stake higher. This way the smoke is dispersed high.
Thankfully there are no immediate neighbours for us at this point of time to complain

I had checked this with the commissioning/service folks and they suggested against raising the height of vent as it wasn't advisable to tweak the default unit - could cause problems such as insulation/leakages
.
Probably we as a family did not find the occasional fumes too much of a botheration - advantages of having lived in polluted cities - one's tolerance limit goes up
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Old 1st July 2010, 15:12   #338
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But still you should not be breathing diesel fumes, and remember that Carbon Monoxide is an odourless, invisible killer.

Congratulations on your new generator: it sound like a wonderful luxury --- but, if you cannot do anything about the exhaust, please keep the windows and doors on that side shut!
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Old 2nd July 2010, 22:04   #339
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
But still you should not be breathing diesel fumes, and remember that Carbon Monoxide is an odourless, invisible killer.

Congratulations on your new generator: it sound like a wonderful luxury --- but, if you cannot do anything about the exhaust, please keep the windows and doors on that side shut!
Sure mate, will keep that in mind and thanks for the wishes.

Given the fact that 100% power backup at our previous place had spoilt us rotten , this had become more of a necessity than a luxury at the new accomodation.
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Old 12th July 2010, 12:53   #340
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I have finally had it with the power cuts in bangalore. thinking of investing in an inverter.
Iam completely confused by all the geeky language of mah,vah, VA,etc.
Could some one decipher it for me please?

Also, this is my requirement - 3 fans, 3 tubelights,1fridge,25"CRT TV. What capacity inverter/batter do i require?
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Old 12th July 2010, 13:59   #341
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Also, this is my requirement - 3 fans, 3 tubelights,1fridge,25"CRT TV. What capacity inverter/batter do i require?
3 fans = Assuming 60 VA for each - > 180 VA
3 CFL = Assuming 20 W CFL and ignoring losses -> 60 VA
25 " CRT TV = Around 200 VA

You need a minimum of 600 VA Inverter. Better to plan for an extra margin of safety, you can go for a 800 VA inverter Sinewave type. The cheaper square wave type will damage the windings of your fan motors. At the least they will make a whining sound due to magnetostriction.

I have not included your fridge as its requirements will be too high for the average 800 VA inverters. The backup time will depend on the battery capacity.
Under normal load a 800 VA inverter will draw about 67 A from a 12 Volt battery. So if you buy a 150 AH battery, you will get about 2 hours of backup time. If you use less number of load, you could gain more hours of backup time.
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Old 12th July 2010, 14:21   #342
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Thanks Prowler.
Are you sure Fridge cannot be accomodated. I know AC/Heater/Iron etc are best avoided, but fridge too?
OK, so it looks like i will go for a 800 VA + 150 AH combo. If i include fridge, what is the max VA iam looking at?

Which is the best brand to buy? (in the 15k to 20k range)
Do i buy battery seperately or do i get it along with inverter? If i have to buy it seperately, best brand and cost?

Last edited by WindRide : 12th July 2010 at 14:25.
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Old 12th July 2010, 14:30   #343
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The mechanism of a fridge, the compressor, is the same as that of an AC machine: it just cools a smaller volume to lower temperatures.

Remember that your fridge will remain cold over the shorter power outages. I try to maintain a rule that the fridge should not be opened during a power cut --- but sometimes I really need that tea!
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Old 12th July 2010, 15:06   #344
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As Thad has pointed out things placed in a refrigerator can stay 'cool' for a couple of hours when you don't open the door. It is difficult to calculate the load of a fridge as it depends on the capacity and other factors. A typical 165 liter fridge with manual defrost can consume about 300 VA while a 360 Liter auto defrost (with internal fans) can consume twice as much.

That is the reason I didn't include it in our rough estimate. This thread contains discussion about different brands and reviews too. Look for a branded inverter ( specifically for the after sales service). Again opt for trust worthy brands in batteries. You might get a better deal if you buy both from the same dealer.
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Old 12th July 2010, 16:52   #345
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Also worth remembering that the more you keep in a fridge, the more economical it is to run, and the cooler it will stay for longer during a cut. Every time you open that door, whoosh! the cold air, heavy than warm air, just runs out into the room: it is the stuff in the fridge that "stores" the coolness.

Oh... How do I find out what current a device is actually drawing? I have a digital multimeter, which I often use for checking voltages, both mains and battery, and it has a "clamp" --- but to get a reading of the current passing through a wire (without breaking it) I think I have to put the clamp around the live wire only?

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 12th July 2010 at 16:56.
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