Inverter or generator?

trrk · 18th July 2008, 13:16

Hi,

> - 2.5 Kva Pure-Sine wave inverter with 4 Nos of Battery - 50,000/-
> - 3.0Kva Pure-Sine wave inverter with 4 Nos of Battery - 60,000/-
> Installation wiring Charges Extra

No idea bout he prices for such big load inverters.

If you have a 3 phase connection, you could look at hooking up one smaller unit for each phase which could save you wiring.

When I had a rewiring done in my house, I installed three 500watts inverters catering to different areas with separate wiring for them.

With a couple of lights and fans and a 29 inch TV, a 100 amp battery lasts for 2+ hours. A light and a fan alone should work for about 8 hours before giving up in my setup.

I have a local inverter, an Index inverter and another branded inverter. I think these are the least bothersome electrical appartus that I have owned. The battery does need proper care, though.

Sorry not to be of much help, though!

supremeBaleno · 18th July 2008, 14:08

Thanks SumitB and Rajesh-sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trrk

I have a local inverter, an Index inverter and another branded inverter.

And how much did each of these cost you ? Just to get an idea about the prices and differential between local and branded.

My requirement is also a couple of fans, 2-3 tube lights, 2 CFLs, TV, fridge (can even drop this - not very important) etc. If I drop the fridge, I really dont need the 2KvA I think and can go for a lower configuration inverter. Will save on money too.

deepakvrao · 18th July 2008, 14:12

Thanks guys for all the replies.

These are thje quotes that I got [all approx]. Will cost approx 3 lakhs for a 15KVA Genset [including all]. This will power my brothers as well as my house. If we get this we get to use all ACs etc BUT I feel that 70% of the time the gen will run without airconditioning load and we might be not at home or even if at home maybe some fans. Running cost is 3l diesel per hour.

Other option is maybe a 5Kva UPS for each - will get the cost and we might be able to run a single AC in each house or if not then adequate lights and fans for long power cuts. Will decide soon.

trrk · 18th July 2008, 15:48

Hi Biju,

> Rajesh-sir.

Could you cut the last part out?

> And how much did each of these cost you ? Just to get an idea about the
> prices and differential between local and branded.

Only the third one that I mentioned was bought recently (28-05-2007). It is a Voltek brand priced at (4050 + 4% VAT) Rs 4212. The others are a decade or more old. The last battery that I bought (17-03-2008) was a locally made one of 100amp for Rs 6500 with 2 years warranty.

> My requirement is also a couple of fans, 2-3 tube lights, 2 CFLs, TV, fridge > (can even drop this - not very important) etc. If I drop the fridge, I really > dont need the 2KvA I think and can go for a lower configuration inverter.

Never tried the fridge with the inverter. We have large capacity frideges and never thought of connecting them to the iverter as the things inside easily survive an 8 hour outage.

2 fans - 120W, 3 tube lights - 120W, ignoring CFLs, TV - 100W, normal fridge - 100W, all would be 440W rounded to 500W. The capacity usually is 80% ot rated loaded except for some good brands. An 800VA inverter should be sufficient for you, if these are wired separately for the inverter, I think. Battery depending on the duration of backup needed.

> Will save on money too.

Very definitely!

dadu · 18th July 2008, 16:58

One of my friends recently bought an APV Inverter, costed apprx 13k with battery. Runs all that you have posted. dont remember the Kva though 600kva, I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblost

any idea how much a generator will cost.
Something to power up say 2 fans and 2 tubelights.
TV will be an added bonus.

bigman · 18th July 2008, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepakvrao

Thanks guys for all the replies.

These are thje quotes that I got [all approx]. Will cost approx 3 lakhs for a 15KVA Genset [including all].

Our custom made 15KVA genset using a TATA 407 engine cost about a 1 lakh to have made last year. Works fine and powers AC etc without any problem.

deepakvrao · 20th July 2008, 08:32

OK guys - I finally got 2 2.5 KVA Sukams. Each was about 60K with 4 Exide 150AH batteries. Looks well made with a small LCD displaying status of battery charging etc.

Today we are scheduled to have no power from 9am to 5pm so I can see how these work.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Quote:

I got the following quote from Su-Kam distributor in Chennai. Does it look OK ?

- 2.5 Kva Pure-Sine wave inverter with 4 Nos of Battery - 50,000/-
- 3.0Kva Pure-Sine wave inverter with 4 Nos of Battery - 60,000/-

SupremeBaleneo, I checked at two dealers after reading your post and they both quoted as follows

2.5KVA UPS - approx 23K, after discount they were willing to give for 20K
3.5KVA UPS - 5K more
Each Exide 150AH Inverter battery at 10.5K - 10K after discount.

Do you think I am actually paying 10K more per set?

megger · 28th July 2008, 09:36

Well, APC has pathetic service in Bangalore. They supply only specific brands of batteries. APC does not practively send people for battery maintenance.Even after logging a request they take 10 days and reminders.

Franchisees have been using poor quality distilled water casing batteries to fail in 6 months. Mine have been replaced twice in 14 months and so is case of 4 other friends who bought inverter together.

Whenever batteries go bad, the electricity bill goes up by 100 units.

Assuming only 10000 inverters in Bangalore, APC is responsible for wasting 2x100x10000 = 2 million units of electricity every year!

Wake up APC

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

I'd be surprised if that were true. APC is an extremely high quality brand. I have been using an APC UPS system without a single complaint. Even BHPians have spoken in favour of APC : Link

santosh.s · 5th August 2008, 09:16

I stay in an apartment which is equipped with an automatic diesel generator, 2KV+ per flat. I can run everything except geysers, like lights, fans, refrigerator, washing machine (not in heating mode), TV etc. Whenever power cut happens, there is an obvious gap during switchover, and once again when power is back.

It is not absolutely required and may not be practical, but here is a question out of curiosity- Is there any way to avoid the gap, and make it like UPS? The back up device needs to be high power (greater than or equal what DG supplies), but a tiny backup capacity (time) will do, may be even a few minutes! It should not require maintenance and should not waste much energy. Any ideas??

directinjection · 7th August 2008, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by santosh.s

It is not absolutely required and may not be practical, but here is a question out of curiosity- Is there any way to avoid the gap, and make it like UPS? The back up device needs to be high power (greater than or equal what DG supplies), but a tiny backup capacity (time) will do, may be even a few minutes! It should not require maintenance and should not waste much energy. Any ideas??

That "gap" thing is very bad for electronic items. You can buy a sine wave inverter with built in UPS. Such models are available in various makes. You can go in for a single battery inverter since you already have DG back up for items like fan and lights.

kalpeshc · 18th February 2009, 15:36

I am looking to get myself an inverter for my house in Surat. We have regular load shedding for around 2-3 hours (not more). I require some kind of power backup which can run at least 3 fans, 3 tube lights and 320 lts refrigerator for around 2 hours max. I can let go of the refrigerator after 1 hr so that I can get extended usage of fans.

I am not quite sure what are pure sine wave convertors, how batteries figure into this whole thing and why does one need to refill the same - basically i am a n00b when it comes to inverters.

I am looking at something less than 10K for the entire package.

SirAlec · 18th February 2009, 23:09

3 fans and 3 tubelight os fine, but fridge use lot of power during switching on its compressor. is it a must to include the fridge.
as due to this your budget will be inflated.

kalpeshc · 19th February 2009, 09:17

I can let go of the fridge. I guess the first priority would be fans and maybe a couple of CFLs (I can replace/augment my tubelights with CFLs for power savings).

anupmathur · 19th February 2009, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalpeshc

I am looking to get myself an inverter for my house in Surat. We have regular load shedding for around 2-3 hours (not more). I require some kind of power backup which can run at least 3 fans, 3 tube lights ... for around 2 hours max.

Kalpesh, there is an important aspect that you must keep in mind. Is your house wired up for fitting an inverter to supply selected loads only?
If not, you need to buy an inverter of large capacity. The batteries need NOT be 'matched' to the inverter capacity. The batteries can be of just sufficient capacity to run your desired loads for the required time.

So why the big inverter?
So that you do not have a blackout each time that there is a power outage. This can be very irritating and defeats the inherent strength of an inverter.

An example will make it clear: Suppose you plan to run only 1000 watts of lights/fans during the outage, but normally you have 1500 watts worth of stuff on in the house.
The moment power fails, a 1000 watts inverter will trip on overload. You'll have to reduce the load to 1000 watts before you manually turn on the inverter again.

Now suppose you buy a 1500 watts inverter. It will carry on uninterrupted. You should then manually turn off the unwanted load to bring it to the planned level so that you can achieve the planned backup time.

Also, please remember that batteries gradually lose storage capacity with age. Much before you need to replace them, their capacity will have reduced to nearly half of new ones.
Keep this in mind while selecting your system.
You can run a small fridge but costs for the system will go up dis-proportionately, as Sir Alec has already mentioned.

You'll almost certainly have to increase your budget or cut down on the outage load!

kalpeshc · 19th February 2009, 09:51

Thanks Anup

I'd rather cut down on my requirements than budget in these times. I think i can live with a temporary blackout for a few minutes instead of spending more money for a higher capacity inverter. Otherwise if I'd have to factor in my TV, fridge, making this an expensive exercise.

What brands are recommended? Are separate brands for batteries recommended too?

18th July 2008, 15:48	#49
trrk Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Alleppey, Kerala Posts: 2,114 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	Hi Biju, > Rajesh-sir. Could you cut the last part out? > And how much did each of these cost you ? Just to get an idea about the > prices and differential between local and branded. Only the third one that I mentioned was bought recently (28-05-2007). It is a Voltek brand priced at (4050 + 4% VAT) Rs 4212. The others are a decade or more old. The last battery that I bought (17-03-2008) was a locally made one of 100amp for Rs 6500 with 2 years warranty. > My requirement is also a couple of fans, 2-3 tube lights, 2 CFLs, TV, fridge > (can even drop this - not very important) etc. If I drop the fridge, I really > dont need the 2KvA I think and can go for a lower configuration inverter. Never tried the fridge with the inverter. We have large capacity frideges and never thought of connecting them to the iverter as the things inside easily survive an 8 hour outage. 2 fans - 120W, 3 tube lights - 120W, ignoring CFLs, TV - 100W, normal fridge - 100W, all would be 440W rounded to 500W. The capacity usually is 80% ot rated loaded except for some good brands. An 800VA inverter should be sufficient for you, if these are wired separately for the inverter, I think. Battery depending on the duration of backup needed. > Will save on money too. Very definitely! Last edited by trrk : 18th July 2008 at 15:51.

18th February 2009, 15:36	#56
kalpeshc BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 364 Thanked: 41 Times	Need advice on inverters I am looking to get myself an inverter for my house in Surat. We have regular load shedding for around 2-3 hours (not more). I require some kind of power backup which can run at least 3 fans, 3 tube lights and 320 lts refrigerator for around 2 hours max. I can let go of the refrigerator after 1 hr so that I can get extended usage of fans. I am not quite sure what are pure sine wave convertors, how batteries figure into this whole thing and why does one need to refill the same - basically i am a n00b when it comes to inverters. I am looking at something less than 10K for the entire package.

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18th July 2008, 13:16	#46
trrk Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Alleppey, Kerala Posts: 2,114 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	Hi, > - 2.5 Kva Pure-Sine wave inverter with 4 Nos of Battery - 50,000/- > - 3.0Kva Pure-Sine wave inverter with 4 Nos of Battery - 60,000/- > Installation wiring Charges Extra No idea bout he prices for such big load inverters. If you have a 3 phase connection, you could look at hooking up one smaller unit for each phase which could save you wiring. When I had a rewiring done in my house, I installed three 500watts inverters catering to different areas with separate wiring for them. With a couple of lights and fans and a 29 inch TV, a 100 amp battery lasts for 2+ hours. A light and a fan alone should work for about 8 hours before giving up in my setup. I have a local inverter, an Index inverter and another branded inverter. I think these are the least bothersome electrical appartus that I have owned. The battery does need proper care, though. Sorry not to be of much help, though!

18th July 2008, 14:12	#48
deepakvrao BANNED Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 291 Thanked: 0 Times	Thanks guys for all the replies. These are thje quotes that I got [all approx]. Will cost approx 3 lakhs for a 15KVA Genset [including all]. This will power my brothers as well as my house. If we get this we get to use all ACs etc BUT I feel that 70% of the time the gen will run without airconditioning load and we might be not at home or even if at home maybe some fans. Running cost is 3l diesel per hour. Other option is maybe a 5Kva UPS for each - will get the cost and we might be able to run a single AC in each house or if not then adequate lights and fans for long power cuts. Will decide soon.

5th August 2008, 09:16	#54
santosh.s BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 977 Thanked: 3 Times View My Garage	I stay in an apartment which is equipped with an automatic diesel generator, 2KV+ per flat. I can run everything except geysers, like lights, fans, refrigerator, washing machine (not in heating mode), TV etc. Whenever power cut happens, there is an obvious gap during switchover, and once again when power is back. It is not absolutely required and may not be practical, but here is a question out of curiosity- Is there any way to avoid the gap, and make it like UPS? The back up device needs to be high power (greater than or equal what DG supplies), but a tiny backup capacity (time) will do, may be even a few minutes! It should not require maintenance and should not waste much energy. Any ideas??

18th February 2009, 23:09	#57
SirAlec Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Queen of the Hills Posts: 3,274 Thanked: 357 Times View My Garage	3 fans and 3 tubelight os fine, but fridge use lot of power during switching on its compressor. is it a must to include the fridge. as due to this your budget will be inflated.

19th February 2009, 09:17	#58
kalpeshc BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 364 Thanked: 41 Times	I can let go of the fridge. I guess the first priority would be fans and maybe a couple of CFLs (I can replace/augment my tubelights with CFLs for power savings).

19th February 2009, 09:51	#60
kalpeshc BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 364 Thanked: 41 Times	Thanks Anup I'd rather cut down on my requirements than budget in these times. I think i can live with a temporary blackout for a few minutes instead of spending more money for a higher capacity inverter. Otherwise if I'd have to factor in my TV, fridge, making this an expensive exercise. What brands are recommended? Are separate brands for batteries recommended too?