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Old 16th June 2011, 16:27   #2176
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by RaguHolla View Post
Also mentioned in my earlier mail, if electric equipment needs 15A, 3 phase socket, then it must have big, fat plug. You can't insert this into normal socket (even if you wish). Because each pins are thicker than normal socket hole!
Just small correction. If I am not wrong then you mean to say 3 pin in place of 3 phase.
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Old 16th June 2011, 16:48   #2177
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Just small correction. If I am not wrong then you mean to say 3 pin in place of 3 phase.
I may not qualified to answer correctly. IIRC usually 15A sockets have direct wire from main instead of shared on like normal socket! I am be completely wrong here. They are indeed 3 pin sockets!
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Old 16th June 2011, 17:19   #2178
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Yet to see a refrigerator which consumes 1KW power!

Normally refrigerators consume in the range of 100-300W. A normal 5A plug/socket is adequate provided there is a tight fit. I have observed at least three distinct diameters of the pins in various plugs and this is what causes loose ft thence sparks and burnt socket. It is best to use sockets which have spring loaded contacts, these always maintain a connection and there is no chance of sparks.
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Old 17th June 2011, 00:52   #2179
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by RaguHolla View Post
No, It doesn't needs 15A, 3 phase socket! From BEE site your refrigerator needs 468 units/year = ~ 1.28 Units per day =~ 53 Watt/Hr! This equivalent of putting 60W bulb! 5A socket is just fine!

Also mentioned in my earlier mail, if electric equipment needs 15A, 3 phase socket, then it must have big, fat plug. You can't insert this into normal socket (even if you wish). Because each pins are thicker than normal socket hole!

I may be wrong, earlier home appliance were not energy efficient, needing you 15A plug. Now most will do without it (with some exception like MW, electric heater etc).
While almost no fridge on the Indian market requires a 15A plug (if it has a fan and a radiator - as in commercial freezers, then it will. Household fridge doesn't eat too much current) - the calculation you have shown could not be more wrong and irrelevant.

Going by this logic even the room heater used in Delhi winters consume very little power - (2kW heater - used 5hrs per day for may be 40days a year of real bad winters - 400 odd units - 50Watt/hr by your methods)


The peak power consumption of the fridge is important here, not its average power over a year.
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Old 17th June 2011, 01:53   #2180
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by RaguHolla View Post
I may not qualified to answer correctly. IIRC usually 15A sockets have direct wire from main instead of shared on like normal socket! I am be completely wrong here. They are indeed 3 pin sockets!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
the calculation you have shown could not be more wrong and irrelevant.
In view of RaguHolla post above, your comment in bold and underline is well uncalled for. I hope you know that typing in bold, underlines and in capitals is akin to shouting online.
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Old 17th June 2011, 10:15   #2181
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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In view of RaguHolla post above, your comment in bold and underline is well uncalled for. I hope you know that typing in bold, underlines and in capitals is akin to shouting online.
khoj, thanks for letting us know. From me, it was not meant to shout or insult anybody. I wanted to point out those words that's why made it bold.
Mostly apart from 3 phase water pumps I have never seen any home appliance using 3-phase connection. I have 3 phase connection at home. Still each room uses single phase. They are just 3-pins, Live (L), Neutral (N) and big one is Earth (E). Live is single phase which give us shock, neutral is return path and Earth is for safety.
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Old 17th June 2011, 10:22   #2182
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In view of RaguHolla post above, your comment in bold and underline is well uncalled for. I hope you know that typing in bold, underlines and in capitals is akin to shouting online.
I though CAPITALS IS LIKE SHOUTING ( sorry, just for emphasis) whole bold and underlined is for emphasis. Several BHPIans use it - I don't think anybody intends to shout.

Also the post you have quoted is @RaguHolla's response to 3-pin vs. 3-phase while what I wrote about was his calculation for power and current ratings requirement - they are not the same.


My intention to write that post was to stop him from burning his house down. I have met practical electrical engineers who think that since all three phases are 220V rms, shorting two phases will not result in any problems (and one BITS trained engineer who though the other way round - voltage between two phases will be 440V rms - he was pretty fanatic about it though he didn't even know what rms meant).

I didn't want to insult or shout at anybody (though my language might have done so - I apologise for that to Ragu)- just stop the bad advice from going viral.

Last edited by vina : 17th June 2011 at 10:34.
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Old 17th June 2011, 10:53   #2183
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Yes I think that we should be very clear when to use average and when to use "Peak" load.

Average is for getting the long term consumption, like how many units will actually be used and billed for in a period.

Peak is to size the wires and connectors. The peak for normal AC is at least three times the running load, and all the switch gear should be capable of taking that load without busting. Similarly the running current will determine the wire sizes, not "average", which as Vina said would give us ridiculous numbers.

The only case where all the values are nearly same is in case of bulbs which are left on 24 hours a day.
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Old 17th June 2011, 23:05   #2184
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by omishra View Post
khoj, thanks for letting us know. From me, it was not meant to shout or insult anybody. I wanted to point out those words that's why made it bold.
omishra, my bad and my post was not pointed at you in this instance

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I though CAPITALS IS LIKE SHOUTING ( sorry, just for emphasis) whole bold and underlined is for emphasis. Several BHPIans use it - I don't think anybody intends to shout.
Yes caps is it and I now understand the gist of the way you posted. My bad again, I jumped the gun

Let's return to the topic of discussion at hand.
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Old 17th June 2011, 23:08   #2185
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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omishra, my bad and my post was not pointed at you in this instance



Yes caps is it and I now understand the gist of the way you posted. My bad again, I jumped the gun

Let's return to the topic of discussion at hand.

No problem at all sir.

By the way, does anybody know what typically is the resistance of copper wiring (per meter of course) typically used in homes?
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Old 18th June 2011, 23:24   #2186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vina
.

By the way, does anybody know what typically is the resistance of copper wiring (per meter of course) typically used in homes?
well. No idea. But for all practical purposes can't we assume it is near zero? However I have seen that in homes with bad wiring, it tends to burn out the insulation over a few years again possibly due to higher resistance.
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Old 18th June 2011, 23:36   #2187
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No theorist... but it is going to vary with the thickness of the conductors. Too thin for the passing current, and the heat starts.
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Old 19th June 2011, 00:11   #2188
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Default Need Help

Need Help (or at least some feedback):

I went to wash my clothe just now (I have a 6-year old) LG Semi-automatic that is used once in two weeks - sometime once in a week - multiple lots at a time) - filled it in, put the detergent, went to get clothes, came back - water was leaking.

checked it out - it is the drainage valve - water is leaking via the drainage pipe, and the valve is not closing fully. I don't know how it happened - last time I washed there was no problem (though I might have neglected to clean it last time after the washing)



Any suggestions on how to clean it? the whole thing is plastic and seems to be glued pretty well to the outlets coming from the washing tub as well as the spinner tub - so I don't want to mess with it unless I'm sure. I'm not going to mess with it at this time (midnight) in any case.

tomorrow (today) is a Sunday, so LG guys may not respond, and I'm out of clean clothes (too much travel, sickness etc. - could not wash earlier) so this is becoming an emergency.
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Old 19th June 2011, 04:59   #2189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vina
Need Help (or at least some feedback):

I went to wash my clothe just now (I have a 6-year old) LG Semi-automatic that is used once in two weeks - sometime once in a week - multiple lots at a time) - filled it in, put the detergent, went to get clothes, came back - water was leaking.

checked it out - it is the drainage valve - water is leaking via the drainage pipe, and the valve is not closing fully. I don't know how it happened - last time I washed there was no problem (though I might have neglected to clean it last time after the washing)

Any suggestions on how to clean it? the whole thing is plastic and seems to be glued pretty well to the outlets coming from the washing tub as well as the spinner tub - so I don't want to mess with it unless I'm sure. I'm not going to mess with it at this time (midnight) in any case.

tomorrow (today) is a Sunday, so LG guys may not respond, and I'm out of clean clothes (too much travel, sickness etc. - could not wash earlier) so this is becoming an emergency.
Something similar happened on my whirlpool machine and the whole valve was changed. At best it might be some hard object stuck in the valve that is preventing the proper operation. at worst the valve would have to be replaced.

Sorry. I don't have a solution For an emergency :-). Sunday shopping ??
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Old 19th June 2011, 09:35   #2190
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

@vina; If you are in a hard water area then cleaning out the deposits might just work. Take the valve out and then pour some material like Blue Harpic, or Modi Spic and Span into it from both sides.
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