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Old 27th June 2011, 19:54   #2221
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Basically, PNG has a lower calorific value. So the nozzle(s) have to be slightly bigger. Should not cost more than the conversion in the first place.

Does the PNG come into home at a regulated pressure (the meter has some pressure regulator perhaps) or is it that the whole distribution line is a low pressure line (unlikely because then when your neighbor cooks, your flames go weak)?

If the full line pressure were present at the stove, you'll probably need narrower nozzles rather than wider.
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Old 5th July 2011, 14:09   #2222
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

I have a LG washing machine which is kept inside the bathroom - so all these years I had it covered with a plastic fitted cover which I had bought from the LG dealer itself. Now it's torn.

So is such a cover necessary - does it anyway reduce the rusting or whatever of the machine. If yes, where I can get one at a reasonable size - the dealer charges 500 odd Rs for it - I assume it should be much cheaper outside - but getting the right size is a problem.
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Old 5th July 2011, 14:20   #2223
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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I have a LG washing machine which is kept inside the bathroom - so all these years I had it covered with a plastic fitted cover which I had bought from the LG dealer itself. Now it's torn.

So is such a cover necessary - does it anyway reduce the rusting or whatever of the machine. If yes, where I can get one at a reasonable size - the dealer charges 500 odd Rs for it - I assume it should be much cheaper outside - but getting the right size is a problem.

What cover? I have two LG machines (one in Hyd, another in Ghaziabad) there is no cover.

Just put it in one corner of the bathroom, make sure water level under it doesn't rise too much (less than half the wheel height is good) and just rub off any water on the sides with a cloth - it won't rust.
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Old 5th July 2011, 14:23   #2224
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Default Re: CFL Vs. Tubelight

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Originally Posted by gopalnayak View Post
CFLs are energy efficient and drop-in replacements for incandescent bulbs. That is about it. They are not replacements for tubelights. If you are using tubelights, do not switch to CFLs. The good-old Tubelight is more efficient and more reliable compared to CFLs. Most CFLs give out about 50 lumens/watt whereas tubelights give out more than 80 lumens/watt. Average life of tubelights is about 3-4 times that of CFLs.
I changed over my entire house (ground + 1st floor) to CFL 1.5yrs ago and I have replaced 2 of them so far. Went with a combination of Osram, Philips and Havells and its the Osram that I have replaced.
Its better to switcher over to CFL as they do a pretty good job and moreover, the government is having plans of making CFL mandatory sometime in mid 2012.
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Old 5th July 2011, 14:59   #2225
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Default Re: CFL Vs. Tubelight

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
What cover? I have two LG machines (one in Hyd, another in Ghaziabad) there is no cover.

Just put it in one corner of the bathroom, make sure water level under it doesn't rise too much (less than half the wheel height is good) and just rub off any water on the sides with a cloth - it won't rust.

Bathroom where it's kept is rather small. So very difficult avoid water splashing on it. Hence I had it covered with a fitted plastic cover - this is sold by the dealers - the cover has a open-able flap on the top so that you don't have to remove the cover to operate the machine.

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Originally Posted by kirantp View Post
I changed over my entire house (ground + 1st floor) to CFL 1.5yrs ago and I have replaced 2 of them so far. Went with a combination of Osram, Philips and Havells and its the Osram that I have replaced.
I think the places where you had it replaced must have been places where it's frequently switched on & off.
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Originally Posted by kirantp View Post
Its better to switcher over to CFL as they do a pretty good job and moreover, the government is having plans of making CFL mandatory sometime in mid 2012.
That would be plain stupid.

A CFL costs Rs 100+. The regular bulb it replaces costs may be Rs.10 or so. If you are replacing the CFL inside a couple of years, I don't think you are even breaking even on the cost difference.

In my opinion, the best thing would be to
- use regular bulbs in areas like bathroom, corridor whether there is frequent switching on & off.
- use 40W (not the supposedly 36W energy efficient) long tube lights in places where you don't switch it on & off frequently.

A CFL is more efficient than a regular bulb but it's not really more efficient than a regular tube light. And the regular tube light lasts for 7-8 years.

I am done with CFLs & 36W slimline tube lights - back to regular bulbs & 40W long tube lights for me.

Govts are stupid - someone should file a PIL if the govt decides to go ahead with this.

Last edited by carboy : 5th July 2011 at 15:01.
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Old 5th July 2011, 15:18   #2226
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Default Re: CFL Vs. Tubelight

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Bathroom where it's kept is rather small. So very difficult avoid water splashing on it. Hence I had it covered with a fitted plastic cover - this is sold by the dealers - the cover has a open-able flap on the top so that you don't have to remove the cover to operate the machine.
I think a plastic cover would inhibit evaporation of any water that gets between it and the washing machine.

It might increase the chances of rust.
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Old 5th July 2011, 15:21   #2227
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Default Re: CFL Vs. Tubelight

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I think a plastic cover would inhibit evaporation of any water that gets between it and the washing machine.

It might increase the chances of rust.
These are form fitted covers - I don't think any water would get in between.
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Old 5th July 2011, 18:08   #2228
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Default Re: CFL Vs. Tubelight

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
These are form fitted covers - I don't think any water would get in between.

That's a misconception - e.g. if you ever have a hot shower in the bathroom the humidity will increase and then water will condense all over the place, including inside the machine. No amount of cover will help you with that. Situation will be worse in coastal areas thanks to the presence of salt in the air.

Unless you have scratches it somehow, the paint on the machines is pretty good, and mere splashes can not cause rusting (after all during normal wash it is soap water that is splashed on the very same steel in houses where there is no cover - i.e. in almost every single house) so easily.



Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Bathroom where it's kept is rather small. So very difficult avoid water splashing on it. Hence I had it covered with a fitted plastic cover - this is sold by the dealers - the cover has a open-able flap on the top so that you don't have to remove the cover to operate the machine.
I can imagine how the cover looks like and like the idea, but more than keeping your machine's looks it is not helping very much.

My machines are in open areas - that is not necessarily good - both get direct sunlight in summers, and both have had their hoses last 6+yrs. No sign of rust anywhere. One of these machines used to be in my kitchen (Bangalore houses have space for washing machine in kitchens) and that place was always wet (some leak or the other) - though no splashes.

the other machine is in heavy use (two lots of clothes every day) for last 3yrs


I think if you just wipe out any splashed water after using the bathroom, that will be good enough - also keep your bathroom ventilated (put an exhaust fan may be) - then the size of the bathroom wouldn't matter, the machine and all other surfaces will dry quickly and humidity levels will be under control.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
I think the places where you had it replaced must have been places where it's frequently switched on & off.


That would be plain stupid.

A CFL costs Rs 100+. The regular bulb it replaces costs may be Rs.10 or so. If you are replacing the CFL inside a couple of years, I don't think you are even breaking even on the cost difference.

In my opinion, the best thing would be to
- use regular bulbs in areas like bathroom, corridor whether there is frequent switching on & off.
- use 40W (not the supposedly 36W energy efficient) long tube lights in places where you don't switch it on & off frequently.

A CFL is more efficient than a regular bulb but it's not really more efficient than a regular tube light. And the regular tube light lasts for 7-8 years.

I am done with CFLs & 36W slimline tube lights - back to regular bulbs & 40W long tube lights for me.

Govts are stupid - someone should file a PIL if the govt decides to go ahead with this.

Man you are angry with CFL. But let's call our friends misguided, not stupid. For example if Mukesh Ambani debates the pros and cons of using CFL (with the intention of saving money in his home) - well that would be stupid.

That said, govt. is not going to make CFLs mandatory - the plan is to ban the filament bulbs (which is akin to making CFL mandatory - but not quite). Tubelights will not be banned - even govt. is not that stupid.

Also for those who are up to it - even the constant switch on/off areas can use tubelights - the worst that happens is you'll have to replace the starter once every year and may be the tube every two years. Still WAY cheaper than a CFL of equivalent luminosity.


there is one niche where CFL has its place (compard to tubelights) - in the households that have low powered inverters CFLs can be used with very low wattage to provide very basic lighting. But then pretty soon LEDs will beat them at that game.
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Old 5th July 2011, 18:49   #2229
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Default Re: CFL Vs. Tubelight

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
Man you are angry with CFL. But let's call our friends misguided, not stupid. For example if Mukesh Ambani debates the pros and cons of using CFL (with the intention of saving money in his home) - well that would be stupid.
I guess it would be the opposite. Mukesh Ambani can afford the extra cost of the CFL (as compared to the filament bulbs) for whatever reasons. But for the common man, CFL is pretty expensive.

And I am not angry with CFL - they have their place. I am angry with people who advocate banning filament bulbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post

That said, govt. is not going to make CFLs mandatory - the plan is to ban the filament bulbs (which is akin to making CFL mandatory - but not quite). Tubelights will not be banned - even govt. is not that stupid.
I wasn't under the misconception that Tubelights would be banned. I was referring to Filament bulbs. It would be silly to ban Filament bulbs. I don't see any reason to ban filament bulbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post

Also for those who are up to it - even the constant switch on/off areas can use tubelights - the worst that happens is you'll have to replace the starter once every year and may be the tube every two years. Still WAY cheaper than a CFL of equivalent luminosity.
But for place like a small bathroom or toilet, it may be difficult to fit a tube light. So what do you use there?

Last edited by carboy : 5th July 2011 at 18:50.
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Old 5th July 2011, 21:28   #2230
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Actually CFL make sense as they consume less power, nearly a quarter of the filament bulbs. So you not only have lower electricity bills, but require lower powered UPS. In our house there are nearly 20 bulbs on every evening. After introducing CFL three years ago the load is lower and the CFL are averaging 2-2.5 years and there are at least 10 which have crossed 3 years.
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Old 5th July 2011, 21:43   #2231
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Actually CFL make sense as they consume less power, nearly a quarter of the filament bulbs. So you not only have lower electricity bills, but require lower powered UPS. In our house there are nearly 20 bulbs on every evening. After introducing CFL three years ago the load is lower and the CFL are averaging 2-2.5 years and there are at least 10 which have crossed 3 years.
Try to calculate how much power you saved with each CFL in 2-2.5 years. Then find the cost difference between a CFL & an incandescent bulb. Then check if it makes financial sense. Unless it's on for quite a few hours every day, it won't make sense. And it's on for so many hours, it's usually in a place where a tube light can be fitted. And a tube light lasts twice as long and is as efficient as a CFL.

Last edited by carboy : 5th July 2011 at 21:44.
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Old 6th July 2011, 00:07   #2232
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Try to calculate how much power you saved with each CFL in 2-2.5 years. Then find the cost difference between a CFL & an incandescent bulb. Then check if it makes financial sense. Unless it's on for quite a few hours every day, it won't make sense. And it's on for so many hours, it's usually in a place where a tube light can be fitted. And a tube light lasts twice as long and is as efficient as a CFL.
I dis-agree, who says you go for a CFL which is on premium price
and has a fancy brandname, they are already taking away all you would have saved in electricity.

I've replaced all incandescent bulbs i think 8 year back.
i remember the earlier Heavy chokes which were used in CFL
and tubes were detachables.

I've been using some good chinese CFL's, comes 18W @ Rs.25-30each
lasts more than 6 months atleast where its used 4-8 hours everyday.

Also using CFL doesn't means only electricity is saved

a good example of advantages of CFL can be read here
which states
:
If every home in America replaced just one incandescent light bulb with an ENERGY STAR qualified CFL, in one
year it would save enough energy to light more than 3 million homes. That would prevent the release of greenhouse gas emissions equal to that of about 800,000 car"

Will you guys still go for incandescent bulbs ???????

Last edited by ghpk : 6th July 2011 at 00:08.
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Old 6th July 2011, 01:04   #2233
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by ghpk View Post
I dis-agree, who says you go for a CFL which is on premium price
and has a fancy brandname, they are already taking away all you would have saved in electricity.

I've replaced all incandescent bulbs i think 8 year back.
i remember the earlier Heavy chokes which were used in CFL
and tubes were detachables.

I've been using some good chinese CFL's, comes 18W @ Rs.25-30each
lasts more than 6 months atleast where its used 4-8 hours everyday.
I have used Chinese CFLs couple of times. One of it last for 1 month & the other for around 4 months.
Other than that, I am not advocating use of incandescent bulbs where usage is 4-8 hours. I am advocating it's use in places like bathrooms, corridors of houses etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghpk View Post

Also using CFL doesn't means only electricity is saved

a good example of advantages of CFL can be read here
which states
:
If every home in America replaced just one incandescent light bulb with an ENERGY STAR qualified CFL, in one
year it would save enough energy to light more than 3 million homes. That would prevent the release of greenhouse gas emissions equal to that of about 800,000 car"

Will you guys still go for incandescent bulbs ???????
Yes.

- CFL lights use far more mercury than incandescents. Hence disposal of CFLs if not done correctly may harm the environment far more than incandescent. I doubt if many CFLs are disposed correctly in India.
- Mercury is also toxic to the workers working in factories producing CFLs.
- CFLs use up more energy & materials in their product than regular bulbs.
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Old 6th July 2011, 10:09   #2234
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
Does the PNG come into home at a regulated pressure (the meter has some pressure regulator perhaps) or is it that the whole distribution line is a low pressure line (unlikely because then when your neighbor cooks, your flames go weak)?

If the full line pressure were present at the stove, you'll probably need narrower nozzles rather than wider.
As far as I know the final presure reduction is in the meter. There used to be some sort of leather bellow based flapper valve at one time! I guess technology has changed since.
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Old 6th July 2011, 10:56   #2235
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

What do you guys have to say about T5 tube-lights vs CFL?

I was somehow convinced that T5 (28W) is many times better than normal T8(40W) tube-light.

Regards,
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