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Old 1st October 2010, 23:35   #1381
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UV kills (or at least inactivates) stuff; RO removes stuff.

There options to have both, but I'd go with RO as the basic. Just my opinion, as another consumer, I'm no scientist!
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Old 2nd October 2010, 00:33   #1382
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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Says who? UV is good enough unless you need RO.
BTW, you can get a good Eureka Forbes UV starting from 4500+ I think.
Just don't buy it from a EF Salesman. Go to a shop & buy it - the lower end models are only available in shops. They are as good as the 7000 Rs ones.

I have a Forbes Crystal which I bought for less than Rs. 5500 (don't remember the exact price). Remember to bargain with the shopkeeper - you can usually lower a couple of 100 there.
Thanks. I'll look into it.

So what you mean is that water from this:-

AquaSure Aquaflow Dx Water Purifier | Eureka Forbes Limited

is just as safe as water from

Aquaguard Classic - Aquaguard Water Purifier, Aquaguard Price, India | Eureka Forbes Limited ?

So the Rs. 3,000 premium I pay for the latter is useless ?

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
UV kills (or at least inactivates) stuff; RO removes stuff.

There options to have both, but I'd go with RO as the basic. Just my opinion, as another consumer, I'm no scientist!
After some googling, I found out that you shouldn't buy a RO water purifier system unless the Total Dissolved Solids in water are more than 500 mg/dl, else the RO system will remove the minerals as well.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 02:02   #1383
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I never considered the aspect of removing things you might want to leave there. Thanks for the pointer.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 07:54   #1384
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anku94, i am using philips UV water filter Philips - UV water purifier UV Class A - WP3890/01 - Water purifier - Water and air purifier - Household products past 2 years. It's used to filter the water drawn from a well in Kerala. The water level is high and the water is sweet so the only issues that I face are bacterial impurities which require UV. So i am confident that clean muncipal water or sweet underground/borewell water requires only a UV purifier. The unit is working well and the filter is self-replaceable and easily available. The unit shuts down automatically once the filter reachs replacement point. It does not require any other service apart from periodic flushing of system with water which is carried out by the unit itself.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 08:11   #1385
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@Anku here're little tips from me & pick the one that suits you well. I learned this before we bought in a water purifier at home. After we'd bought, till date we're happy with it.

First thing to look for is the quality of water & not the water purifier itself. This might sound strange, however, the fact is you need to buy a purifier based on the contamination of water you're having. The contamination can be due to several things like virus/bacteria or TDS.

No introduction required for virus/bacteria. The contamination of water is determined by TDS (Total Dissolved Solids). Normally a TDS of upto 50 is acceptable limits & considered for drinking. Anything above it should be purified.

If the TDS in water is less but has lots of virus & bacteria, then a simple solution is to boil the water & consume it. You need to look into RO's only when you have a good amount of TDS. People who come for demo usually have a TDS meter with them through which they can check & let you know the TDS level. Another simple method is, if you boil the water, your vessels are bound to get damaged very slightly with the water sediments getting deposited at the bottom. These are signs of high TDS.

What ideally an RO or any water purifier does is, they have a filter of 0.0001 micron through which the solids in water, bacteria, viruses cannot pass, however, the water molecules can pass thus filtering out good water. Some purifiers have additional silver membrane through which the water is passed for enhancing the taste of water.

Now, if you've issues with virus & bacterias only, then you may opt for simple ones that filters out virus/bacteria & does UV treatment. However, if you've TDS, then you HAVE to opt only for RO that will help.

I'm not recommending any product to you because, I think I've given you necessary foundation to start with. I can recommend anything from 2K to 20K, but unless you understand the pros & cons you'll not be able to settle with an ideal one. When we intended to buy one, most of the people asked us to stay away from it & said the ones we get in can is economical & most of them found theirs useless (read it Aquaguard). We started with a little dilemma when we intented to purchase, but till date we're enjoying the sweet taste of crystal clear sparkling mineral water & that too with the brand with which people asked to stay away. I firmly believe that was because we didn't hurry up (read it we took about 6 months to analyze & 2 days to purchase); we understood the real problem & then went about hunting the brands in the market, their service, parts availability, spares & then finally settled with the one we bought. Till date, we're enjoying & there's no "R" of regret.

All you need to do is, test what kind of water you have & proceed from there on. DO NOT take any excuse from demonstration; take more than sufficient demo with every product that you intent to buy.

Good Luck

Last edited by aargee : 2nd October 2010 at 08:16.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 12:23   #1386
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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
anku94, i am using philips UV water filter .......It does not require any other service apart from periodic flushing of system with water which is carried out by the unit itself.
Thanks a lot. Just the kind of info I needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
@Anku here're little tips from me & pick the one that suits you well. I learned this before we bought in a water purifier at home. After we'd bought, till date we're happy with it.......

.......test what kind of water you have & proceed from there on. DO NOT take any excuse from demonstration; take more than sufficient demo with every product that you intent to buy.

Good Luck
Thanks a lot. Based on all the reading, I've concluded that all we need is a UV based purifier. BTW, which Aquaguard model do you have ?

----------------------------------------------------------------
So here's the situation.

We need UV based filters, not heavy duty, as we're a family of three.

The options I found on the net were

1. Eureka Forbes

Seems like the preferred brand for filters.

a) Aquasure - UV based. Range from Rs. 3,990 to Rs. 7,650.

b) Aquaguard - Range from Rs. 7,390 (Aquaguard Classic) to Rs. 9,590 (Aquaguard Total Infinity). Most likely going to pick Aquaguard Classic from the list.

Water Purifiers - RO Water Purifier, UV Water Purifier Systems, drinking water purifiers, India

2. Philips

3 models primarily. 2 come with a battery backup option, which is not required. Ranging from Rs. 6,495 to Rs. 9,495. (Battery backup options not being considered). I think the best choice is UV Class A (Rs. 7,495).

Philips - Water purifier - Water purifier - Household products

3. Kent

Only one UV-based purifier, Kent Ultra available. Didn't find it in the few shops I visited in my city. Rates not available on net. But knowing Kent, I'm not very optimistic. If they had spent less on Hema Malini and Esha Deol and passed the savings to consumers, things might've been different.

Unless someone has had a very good experience with this one and price is cheap, I don't think we're buying this one.

KENT RO

I think this is as much as I could narrow down the list. Still leaves us with many options.

My first question would be which brand, depending on After Sales Service and availability of replacement parts, and then the filter. The UV Class A seems ideal if I go with Philips, and Kent has only one. But if we go with Forbes, we have about 3 models worth considering.

Any other suggestions are also more than welcome.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 13:00   #1387
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aargee, that was a very informative post. Thanks.

So we need RO for removing hardness? Or do we need some other kind of processing?
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Old 2nd October 2010, 13:06   #1388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
Thanks a lot. Based on all the reading, I've concluded that all we need is a UV based purifier. BTW, which Aquaguard model do you have ?
Whoa!!! Ours is outdate one now. Anyway, ours is close to this one http://www.eurekaforbes.com/water-pu...otal-atom.aspx except that there's no dual tap, but single & no storage but with booster pump. There's also an decision as why we choose this model. Care to hear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
We need UV based filters, not heavy duty, as we're a family of three.
I guess you did not get the point or I didn't sell it right to you. Family size does not depend upon heavy duty like RO or light weight like UV. Check out the quality of water. Also remember, as of now you may not know your current water consumption, so try to understand that first. You cannot store the water for more than 48 hours, atleast, this is what I've been told.

But, I now have the same question as, how do manufacturers like Bisleri/Aquafina/Sabols have a larger expiry like 6 months?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
1. Eureka Forbes
These guys are the leaders & trust me, you don't need to visit their service centre for anything. Just sign up AMC every year, they change filters every year for the worth of same. Not sure about others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
My first question would be which brand, depending on After Sales Service and availability of replacement parts, and then the filter.
My friend, you're still making the same mistake. First sort your requirement, once you decide the spec, then all you need is to question the brand's reputation, service, spares, availability, support & so on. But if you do the other way, then you may be forced to like the model that you buy from the manufacturer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
aargee, that was a very informative post. Thanks.
My pleasure sharing 2 cents of my knowledge. Glad to know it was helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
So we need RO for removing hardness? Or do we need some other kind of processing?
Usually hardness in water is due to excess presence of natural minerals & most of it would be calcium or iron. It is possible to completely remove the minerals from water & that's what the TDS level determines. Any natural spring water (good ones) contain 50 or more TDS level, which means, they're natural minerals & good for health & when the same is in excess is called hardness & bad for health. RO WILL remove the excessive hardness from water for sure. The principle of RO is simple, take a filter of 0.00001 micron & pass the water through it; size of virus & bacterias are 0.1 micron, so they get filtered, size of TDS are 0.0001 micron so they too get filtered, now all you have is pure good mineral drinking water. All the ones in can are not RO, they're only UV. Putting it in simple words, take water from running river, do a UV & package it. But RO is completely different, the water is passed through charcoal, filter, UV & silver & that's also a reason why Sabols costs more than the regular packaged drinking water.

How to check for hard water? Here's one simple method using soap lather. Trust me, it works -
Testing For Hardwater.

There're so many down sides of using a RO too. Wanna hear?

Last edited by aargee : 2nd October 2010 at 13:20.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 13:35   #1389
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RO has downsides?

Definitely, yes, I want to.

I was about recommend getting a water filter for a relative living in an area with hard / brackish water, where piped water supply is difficult to get.

All I knew was that UV was inadequate for them, and was not sure of RO. Usind "candle" and boiling has not helped them. Probably, the water is germ/ bacteria free, but the bad taste of hardness remains.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 14:17   #1390
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@BSD - I wouldn't really call it as downsides, but would say the hassles of maintenance; well for that matter anything requires maintenance, but not sure what to call it, anyway, here're they...
1. The filters MUST be cleaned atleast once in 3 months. If the TDS is more than 500 (like in our case 800), it should be done more frequently. Though its a 10 minutes job, we tend to forget
2. RO without a booster pump is horrible; not sure if we even get any now days.
3. There's a lot of wastage in water. Like in our case, for every litre of inlet water, we only get about 450 ml output & remaining 650 ml is wasted. Anyway, we use it for washing clothes, though its not recommended because the remaining 650 might contain even more TDS.
4. Changing all the 5/6 filters every year is mandatory. Though there wouldn't be any loss in output or quality of water output is hardly noticeable, the amount of TDS deposited inside the filters (even if cleaned once in 3 months) will be more than new filters & is sufficient to do a bad job
5. I heard that the consumable water from the output of RO purifier cannot be used after 48 hours. However, I've tasted it after 48 hours, but then, there's hardly anything noticable. Anyway, we don't take chances either. Point - Water cannot be stored for long.
6. This is a very long process & consumes about 1-2 hours a day only for filtering the water to store for the entire day's consumption, because the output from the purifier is about a litre per hour. Not sure if there're better ones these days, but as the machine gets older, it reduces even further from 1 Litre per hour.
7. Everytime before starting the process, it is suggested to do a reverse RO so that the TDS that are losely hanging around the filters would be back flushed. This is just a 3-5 minutes processs though.

Not sure if I've left out any, if I did, I'll keep you posted.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 15:10   #1391
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Whoa!!! Ours is outdate one now. Anyway, ours is close to this one http://www.eurekaforbes.com/water-pu...otal-atom.aspx except that there's no dual tap, but single & no storage but with booster pump. There's also an decision as why we choose this model. Care to hear?
I'd love to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
I guess you did not get the point or I didn't sell it right to you. Family size does not depend upon heavy duty like RO or light weight like UV. Check out the quality of water.
No, you misunderstood me. By 'not heavy duty', what I meant was that it doesn't have to have high storage capacity or high rate of filtration.

What I've concluded is that we don't need a RO filter as TDS levels aren't high. I'm pretty sure of this fact, although I'll call up demo guys and ask them to confirm it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
These guys are the leaders & trust me, you don't need to visit their service centre for anything. Just sign up AMC every year, they change filters every year for the worth of same. Not sure about others.
Good to know. That eliminates some of the products from the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
My friend, you're still making the same mistake. First sort your requirement, once you decide the spec, then all you need is to question the brand's reputation, service, spares, availability, support & so on. But if you do the other way, then you may be forced to like the model that you buy from the manufacturer.
I hope I made myself clear now. UV vs RO was the first stage of selection, only now that I'm 90% sure that we don't have high TDS levels that I've moved to the next stage, i.e. brands and models after settling on UV as my preferred filter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
There're so many down sides of using a RO too. Wanna hear?
Is it that a RO filter filters out minerals as well and hence is not preferred if TDS of unfiltered water is low ?

EDIT : Just saw your post on this. Quite informative. Thanks.

BTW, the upper limit for acceptable TDS levels is 500 mg/L.

Quote:
Wikipedia : The United States has established a secondary water quality standard of 500 mg/l to provide for palatability of drinking water.
Source : Total dissolved solids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for all the info.

EDIT 2 : Just tried dissolving soap in half a cup of water. Result : Negligible lather. So I'm back to the UV or RO crossroads. Can anybody tell me how do I determine the precise TDS ? I can't be sure that the demo guys will be carrying their own testing equipment.

EDIT 3 : Further browsing, I found out that 500 mg/L is the maximum permissible limit and not the ideal limit. Ideal concentration is 50 mg/L. Apologies, aargee. Back to Square 1. :(

Last edited by anku94 : 2nd October 2010 at 15:26.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 19:30   #1392
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Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
I'd love to.
When we looked out to buy one, we couldn't think of anyone other than Eureka Forbes as we've their vaccum cleaner & their service levels were good. Anyway we didn't have Philips by then & there was only one competitor - Kent, which hardly mattered to us.

So the sales person shows 3 different models, 9990, 14990 & 16990. The difference between 3 of them were...
9990 - Basic RO & has 6 stage filters
14990 - Has 6 stage filters & a 4 lts storage tank
16990 - Has 6 stage filter + 4 Lts storage tank + has two inlets; one for well water & other for metro water. Depending upon the water supply one has to manually turn a knob to select the stages of filter.

Obviously, salesman wanted to push 16990 & we didn't definitely need it because we use only well water. Then he wanted us to buy 14990; but then this is what I thought...
Water can be stored either in the storage tank or in a separate vessel which hardly matters because all 3 of them had almost the same output. So the difference of 5K was only for the storage container because of the quality of plastic to preserve the water upto 48 hours. So finally we settled for the 9990 model.

Quote:
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BTW, the upper limit for acceptable TDS levels is 500 mg/L.
Tks. I was under the impression that it was 50 'cause when we checked ours it was somewhere around 450 or 750 (can't remember) & the water was tasting real bad.


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Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
Can anybody tell me how do I determine the precise TDS ? I can't be sure that the demo guys will be carrying their own testing equipment.
The demo guys WILL & SHOULD carry the instrument with them. If they don't, then don't buy the product from them. I'm confident Eureka Forbes guys have it with them all the time.

Check out this - Conductivity Meters, TDS meters, Pen Type Conductivity, TDS Meters From HM Digital, Mumbai, India. The last one in the pic is what they used for testing at our home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
Further browsing, I found out that 500 mg/L is the maximum permissible limit and not the ideal limit. Ideal concentration is 50 mg/L. Apologies, aargee. Back to Square 1. :(
Haha!!! So I was right No worries. Get a good one.

OT - Have you watched the movie Jackie Chan's Tuxedo? The villian in the movie plots something on water contamination & thus to become the world's richest person, I somehow feel that's where we're all heading to!!!
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Old 2nd October 2010, 19:50   #1393
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Our RO machine is water without thought.

It is under the sink, having its own outlet, and is permanently on. There is no waiting for the water, as it has its own pressurised water tank. Anyway, I think it is rated at producing 25Ltrs per hour.

As aargee says, maintenance is important. We get a visit from our Zero-B man every three to four months for cleaning of all filters. They always come within 24 hrs if there is any fault.

RO is expensive in terms of parts: we have had both the pressure pump and the the RO membranes replaced this year, but had AMC covering parts.

Our water even occasionally tastes salty: it has to be RO for us, I think.

Surely all of the filter cleaning and maintenance issues are the same for a UV machine?
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Old 2nd October 2010, 19:59   #1394
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Anyway, I think it is rated at producing 25Ltrs per hour.
That sounds WOW!!! How's that possible? 25 litres an hour sounds awesome. I guess ours is 8 or 10 lts per hour, not sure though.

Quote:
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We get a visit from our Zero-B man every three to four months for cleaning of all filters. They always come within 24 hrs if there is any fault.
What model do you've? Any pic from internet & source of information is appreciated. Do they replace the filters every year as part of AMC?

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Surely all of the filter cleaning and maintenance issues are the same for a UV machine?
Yes, but the quality of filters does matter.
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Old 2nd October 2010, 20:37   #1395
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I think it may be one of these. Not a low-cost thingy: fifteen or twenty thousand I think. I always forget the actual cost of things: I think it is like the biological method that makes women forget the pain of childbirth, without which nobody would have ever done it more than once!!!

Seem to remember that my wife insisted on the higher capacity in case she wanted to bath with it! OK, I may mock, but actually, if the water quality is bad, it makes good sense to rinse off with purer water. Mind you, I don't think she ever has!
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