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Old 24th February 2009, 11:05   #541
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Given2fly, what you say is quite correct.
Which is why, on my desktops, I prefer two physical HDDs, rather than a single of equivalent capacity.
Even on my laptop, what I have found is: A smaller image gets restored faster than a bigger one, on one physical drive. Perhaps the limiting factor is not the I/O conduit.?

Another interesting thing I have observed is that the installation time for many large programs is much lower if the program files folder already contains it. Many programs do not need to be registered all over again!
Further, some programs store up-to-date data in the installation folder. So, by having the Program Files in E drive, I do not lose such data when I make a recovery of C drive.
Keep in mind that I also set the My Documents folder to drive E. Everything saved by default there also survives a recovery.

Lastly, it helps to have Program Files in drive E if you plan to make a dual boot system, without using VM Ware. The E drive files can be shared to a large extent by both OSes!

Do you think all of this makes some sense? Would be grateful for your feedback.
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Old 24th February 2009, 11:26   #542
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I think that partioning began when HDD capacities raced ahead of the ability of the BIOS/OS to address them?

However, the priority soon became damage control.
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Old 24th February 2009, 11:43   #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I think that partioning began when HDD capacities raced ahead of the ability of the BIOS/OS to address them?
I'm not sure that is how it happened, Thad.

Partitions have been deployed as a method of data segregation and damage control by advanced users for a long time.
It's just that the awareness about the benefits of this method of setting up took a long time to percolate down to the average user. Some still do not understand it!

One of the first companies to sell all their laptops with a partitioned HDD was Sony.
Six years ago, the Sony laptop I bought came with a very sensibly partitioned HDD - 15 GB for drive C and 40 GB for D.
The quick-tips even mentioned that users must remember to save all important data in drive D and that the recovery CDs allowed the option of making recovery of just the system drive, so that data in D would not be lost in the process.
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Old 25th February 2009, 00:19   #544
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I need some serious help here, please.

I have confirmed that my hardware is vista capable.

My motherborad came with manual and two CDs, one driver cd for xp and other for Vista.
I think this confirms it is atleast capable of running Vista.
My graphics card is 9500GT from TAG ( Technology and Gadgets ) which is running XP fine.
The graphics driver CD has drivers for Vista.

My mobo is MSI K9N Neo V3 with Nvidia 560 chipset.
Processor is AMD Athlon X2 5000+.
Ram is : 2 X 1 GB Dynet 667, DDR2
1 X 1 GB Transcend 667, DDR2,
1 X 1 GB Kingston 667, DDR2.
HDD is Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB IDE,


I have tried all combinations with RAM while I am installing Vista.

Now a few new points. Here is how the sequence of events goes while I am installing Vista.

Vista installation will start > windows is loading files ( 5-8 seconds ) > that three bar passing while it boots up ( with copyright symbol and Microsoft Co-operation visible on screen ) > a greenish background and mouse cursor now comes up.

Now here installation will hang up. No dialog box will appear.

Now the DVD player noise stops and HDD light comes up. The physical harddrive in which the installation is going on gets really hot.

At this point of time the cursor moves, but I am able to take out the installation DVD. The cursor will still move on even after I have removed the DVD from optical drive.
The HDD will gets so hot that I cannot keep my finger on the side ( i.e. on the screw ) of HDD and count 5.

The Total overall amount spent on this CPU is around Rs. 60K will all upgrades, etc.
This the mobo we bought after the last mobo, again the same K9N Neo V3, got damaged when I was trying to flash BIOS and light went away ( courtsey MGVCL ). This mobo costed us Rs. 7500. It is indeed vista capable.

I am really frustrated to no end because of this. Despite my machine being Vista capable, I am not able to run this OS.

Can anyone point out why this is happening ?
I am not able to run anything on this except XP 32-bit.
Am I the only one on earth to face this issue even after spending so much money ?


If nothing can be done then what is moral of the story ?
Never buy any machine from AMD platform ?

Last edited by aaggoswami : 25th February 2009 at 00:23.
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Old 25th February 2009, 08:04   #545
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Aggo, have you tried pressing the 'restart'/soft re-boot button at the point where the computer hangs?
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Old 25th February 2009, 08:42   #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Aggo, have you tried pressing the 'restart'/soft re-boot button at the point where the computer hangs?
Yes, it would restart and at the same place the installation will hang. I dont know why.
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Old 25th February 2009, 09:08   #547
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You paid 60K for this setup?

I recently paid 17K for Core2 Duo PC with 2GB RAM and 160GB 7200rpm drive, this is a branded PC from Hewlett Packard. Then I asked them to add 19" TFT and Vista Business for 15K more. Runs great.

Now, how are you sure it is Vista capable? Just because all the individual components are Vista capable, the whole system doesn't become one. In the industry we have a term called integration testing. When you put numerous parts together (hardware & software), chances are it never works the first time. It takes a few iteration (test,analyse,redesign) to work out the kinks and produce a reliable box.

Since you have taken over this responsibility here, it is up to you to do the integration testing. I normally leave it to the experts, like PC makers.
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Old 25th February 2009, 10:10   #548
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You paid 60K for this setup?
OK, Aggo, that is water under the bridge. What Samurai has said is quite correct, but then, a lot of us do buy 'assembled' desktops.
So, is yours bought assembled or did you do the assembly too?

I cannot figure out what could be wrong. Is it the mother board? Is it the RAM? How about asking for support? Do you have access to any support or warranty replacements? You have indeed spent a bomb. Are the vendors not willing to help in any way? This is not sounding quite fair.

I get my desktops assembled, and it is not because I cannot do it myself. The vendor I use is an alumnus of the same Institute I graduated from and is an authorized re-seller/partner for all the big names. eg. he replaced my entire motherboard & processor combo under Intel's AWR (advance warranty replacement) because I was having a slight issue with the computer re-booting twice or thrice before finally coming on every morning. This replacement was done 1 year and 11 months into the life of the new PC.
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Old 25th February 2009, 11:06   #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You paid 60K for this setup?

I recently paid 17K for Core2 Duo PC with 2GB RAM and 160GB 7200rpm drive, this is a branded PC from Hewlett Packard. Then I asked them to add 19" TFT and Vista Business for 15K more. Runs great.

Now, how are you sure it is Vista capable? Just because all the individual components are Vista capable, the whole system doesn't become one. In the industry we have a term called integration testing. When you put numerous parts together (hardware & software), chances are it never works the first time. It takes a few iteration (test,analyse,redesign) to work out the kinks and produce a reliable box.

Since you have taken over this responsibility here, it is up to you to do the integration testing. I normally leave it to the experts, like PC makers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
OK, Aggo, that is water under the bridge. What Samurai has said is quite correct, but then, a lot of us do buy 'assembled' desktops.
So, is yours bought assembled or did you do the assembly too?

I cannot figure out what could be wrong. Is it the mother board? Is it the RAM? How about asking for support? Do you have access to any support or warranty replacements? You have indeed spent a bomb. Are the vendors not willing to help in any way? This is not sounding quite fair.

I get my desktops assembled, and it is not because I cannot do it myself. The vendor I use is an alumnus of the same Institute I graduated from and is an authorized re-seller/partner for all the big names. eg. he replaced my entire motherboard & processor combo under Intel's AWR (advance warranty replacement) because I was having a slight issue with the computer re-booting twice or thrice before finally coming on every morning. This replacement was done 1 year and 11 months into the life of the new PC.
I am sorry for the long post, but may be this can give some clue to problem.

At this point of time I would like to give all the case history of my PC.

The story goes on like this. This machine was bought for Oracle that comes in BCA course ( in which I am ) around 2 years ago for Rs. 40K. The processor is the same, came with 2GB ram and 200GB Seagate IDE, and it came with K9MM-V.The SMPS was Intex 280W that went kaput one fine day. Along with it went my K9MM-V.

Got Gigabyte Ga Ma69Vm-S2, a Rs. 5500 upgrade, which was a bit errorsome, got it replaced free ( that is what my computer vendor told me ) but I went in for upgrade to K9N Neo V3 with 7300GT. My vendor told me that only 8500GT and 7300GT will work fine with this mobo. Read the same at anandtech. This costed around 7.5K.

Then upgarding the bios in K9N Neo V3 and light goes away. Rs. 7500 and this new K9N Neo V3. Yes this is my second K9N Neo V3 mobo.

So total is Rs. 40 + 7.5 + 7.5 + 5.5 + 2 ( 2 GB RAM added to already existing 2 GB ) + 3.1 ( TAG 9500GT which I bought recently ) K = Rs. 65,600. This is the total money spent only on CPU. Add to that Rs. 13K for 19" Viewsonic VA1912W.

So the PC through which I am typing this is costing Rs. 78,600. This is without Rs. 3K for Optical drive upgrades.

I have done some synthetic tests on this set up and for rendering, my processor has rating of 0.5 fps for core 1 and 1.5 fps for core 2. Is my processor also damaged ? I think this happened because of Intex SMPS.

So this is the history.

Now when I had gigabyte mobo, I tired Vista trial edition around 3rd september 2007. I remember the date because on that day my grandfather died and I had to study for internals. May be around 7th September 2007. The trial edition ran fine for around 20 days before I shifted back to XP.

I am not sure if the assembled PC cannot run Vista, but even on G33 mobo and C2D E4400 Vista runs fine. But when it comes to my pc, it wont work.

About testing, I have seen that my mobo does support my processor and also supports the RAM I am having. Any idea what can be done next ?

This is assembled PC. Now I help other assemble their PC. Now what ever PC I am involved in for assembling, they run Vista. When this pc was bought, I did not have knowledge of PCs much. I have it now. All the recent upgrades are done by me without involvement of my vendor. I think my vendor is charging fantastic. The K9N Neo for which we payed Rs. 7500 was available on techshop.in for just Rs. 4500 + shipping. Lets say its 5K, still Rs. 2.5k cheaper.

Tried for support only to realize that it need buying a new PC. My vendor says this is the first time he is watching these errors. Gave me quote for a new configuration. Obviously I am not going for it.

Microsoft reports this as some issue with mobo or processor. No precise answer.
You are quite lucky to get replacement. For me getting replacement after 2 months is impossible. It will come under " Regular wear and tear ".

I am really tired and speechless. I have spent my dad's lot of money on this and need Vista for my pc as its more stable. I have spent money for Vista also.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 25th February 2009 at 11:08.
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Old 25th February 2009, 12:16   #550
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Aggo, my sympathies.
What can I say?
This has been a very expensive learning curve. The fact that you are with a vendor who is completely unscrupulous is also part of the expensive lesson.
As I mentioned in my post, I do not assemble my own PCs for the simple reason that I would have no warranties for the total system, in case, as Samurai mentioned, there is an integration issue or an incompatibility problem with some hardware or software.

Dealing with a good vendor has benefits. The man is authorized by Intel to do advance warraty replacements. (The warranty on my MoBo was 2 years). They send him the parts in advance, so that there is no down time for the user. There is no luck required to make this happen! It is a documented and transparent procedure.
The same applies to a lot of the hardware he uses: HDDs, optical drives, LAN cards etc...

Coming back to the issue at hand: If Microsoft/AMD suspects that you are having a problem because of the MoBo or the processor, would it now make any sense throwing more money after the money already spent?
My gut feeling is, no.

I find your last para interesting, that you want to shift to Vista as it is more stable.
I would not like to disagree with this view, but would like to ask a rhetorical question: Is XP so unstable that you cannot live with it?! We've all lived with it for almost 6 years!
Even now, many of us have decided to stay with XP till a stable Win7 is released.
In some ways, it would even be fair to say that MS has acknowledged Vista to be a .. a.. flop(??), or whatever!

My sincere advice to you would be to use XP and enjoy it! It has served well and done all we asked of it. At times my machine is on for days. No crashes, no blue screens!
The fun elements of Vista, the animated cursors and themes etc. can be installed on XP and they run well! If you MUST have those!

Cheers!

___________________________________
to quote your signature: Eventually fate decides everything. It's called Fait Accompli!
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Old 25th February 2009, 12:54   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
1) Aggo, my sympathies.
What can I say?

2) This has been a very expensive learning curve. The fact that you are with a vendor who is completely unscrupulous is also part of the expensive lesson.
As I mentioned in my post, I do not assemble my own PCs for the simple reason that I would have no warranties for the total system, in case, as Samurai mentioned, there is an integration issue or an incompatibility problem with some hardware or software.

3) Dealing with a good vendor has benefits. The man is authorized by Intel to do advance warraty replacements. (The warranty on my MoBo was 2 years). They send him the parts in advance, so that there is no down time for the user. There is no luck required to make this happen! It is a documented and transparent procedure.
The same applies to a lot of the hardware he uses: HDDs, optical drives, LAN cards etc...

4) Coming back to the issue at hand: If Microsoft/AMD suspects that you are having a problem because of the MoBo or the processor, would it now make any sense throwing more money after the money already spent?
My gut feeling is, no.

5) I find your last para interesting, that you want to shift to Vista as it is more stable.
I would not like to disagree with this view, but would like to ask a rhetorical question: Is XP so unstable that you cannot live with it?! We've all lived with it for almost 6 years!
Even now, many of us have decided to stay with XP till a stable Win7 is released.
In some ways, it would even be fair to say that MS has acknowledged Vista to be a .. a.. flop(??), or whatever!

My sincere advice to you would be to use XP and enjoy it! It has served well and done all we asked of it. At times my machine is on for days. No crashes, no blue screens!
The fun elements of Vista, the animated cursors and themes etc. can be installed on XP and they run well! If you MUST have those!

6) to quote your signature: Eventually fate decides everything. It's called Fait Accompli!
1) Thanks! I really need them. Such is my state.

2) I think the warranty for individual remains even if I assemble the system. I dont know about integrity issues. The vendor is OK as compared to others. Some other vendors I contacted to confirm the price told me k9N Neo V3 will cost around Rs. 12K.
My vendor is recognized by AMD. He charges fantastic for processors though. What is available theitwares and techshop for lets say 4.5-5K, my vendor sells the same at around 7.5-8K.

3) Its very difficult to find one. The last resort is to buy things from distributor and become DIY. I have resorted to this.

4) Exactly, I dont want to spend more money, but..

5) I have already spent money on Vista. Moreover for my project work with 3DS Max, I need a more stable OS. XP does hang up in between ( though now I suspect that to be hardware error ). Even when I open lets say Drive E, it will take around 5 secs to 7 seconds just to show contents.
I need an OS that is more secure and stable than XP. And I am not into animated themes. Never ever will you find one on my PC.
I am simple and straight forward user, but with certain performance specifications.

6) LOL! This gave me a lighter moment after the hectic pressure because of this ill system.
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Old 25th February 2009, 13:47   #552
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3D Studio Max! Ah!! Now I see what we really need!!
Win XP MCE.

And if you plan to make 3D, modelling and rendering into a career, you'd be best off with Maya and a Mac!! LOL!

BTW, 3DS Max runs perfectly well with XP MCE. If you're having problems, your hardware has some glitch!
And before you ask, no, I'm not an animation person!

All the best!
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Old 25th February 2009, 14:11   #553
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Did you say, media center edition? he isn't using one, are you, Agg? If not, I don't see why we need another version of OS when XP MCE is just XP with enhancements for mobile users.

Anyway, to Aag, Please source your components from a reliable person. This guy you have dealt with, has supplied with you enough lemons to stay away from him for the rest of your life. If possible, source it directly from Mumbai/Delhi or buy it from the distributors.

Now next to your hardware issues, MSI is one MB maker I have seen heck lot of issues. My personal choice is to never buy MSI again, but others may have a different experience, so all the best to them. Similarly, get rid of your entire ram and get a good 2+2 GB set of RAM, of ONE Brand which is good, be it transcend, corsair or kingston. Never ever buy or recommend Dynet or such chinese/taiwanese brands which flood the market as they are only suitable for cyber cafe machines where the bottom line is profit and not stability. You need a good workhorse, you have to have good brands onboard. Like Samurai said, they are not just brands for brands sake, but they invest in testing and therefore back their products with confidence that just another company won't. Similarly, I would recommend people from staying away from brands like VU and others who have just come up in market with rebrands OEM stuff.

One last question, but do you have the right drivers for the XP. You probably won't get any updated drivers as MSI doesn't always keep them updated. But make sure that rest of the system is not out of place. Any crazy software installed by sheer curiosity and you probably have opened a can of worms & backdoors. I know you are studying BCA, but trust me buddy, that alone doesn't tell you all of the story. You have to treat your system with care. Now Enough of Bhashan. Chao!
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Old 25th February 2009, 14:13   #554
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Post WinSXS Tool to reduce the size by 3 GB

To those who are still baffled with WinSXS size, Here is some info.

==============================================
Have you recently installed Service Pack 1?

If so, there is a tool included in the Service Pack 1 installation that will immediately clean up all of the components that it replaced in the WinSxS folder. This tool has been documented to remove up to 3GB from the WinSxS folder. YMMV.

Here is how to use this tool.

***NOTE: After you use this cleanup tool, you will no longer be able to remove Service Pack 1, should any problems occur. Make sure that the system is stable before using.

***NOTE 2: This tool is a one-time use tool. Once it's used it will no longer work on the same installation.

Open Windows Explorer and navigate to C:\Windows\System32. Look for the file "vsp1cln.exe."
Right click this file and select the 'Run As Administrator' option.
The Vista Service Pack 1 Cleanup Tool will remove all of the redundant files that it has replaced.
The amount of disk space you gain will depend on the system, what files are installed, etc.
==============================================

Source : winsxs folder way to big! : Windows Vista Setup : Windows Vista IT Pro : Microsoft TechNet Forums
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Old 25th February 2009, 14:22   #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
3D Studio Max! Ah!! Now I see what we really need!!
Win XP MCE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by given2fly View Post
Did you say, media center edition? he isn't using one, are you, Agg? If not, I don't see why we need another version of OS when XP MCE is just XP with enhancements for mobile users.
You're probably right, given2fly!
Please note that I am not a user of 3DS Max, so I cannot personally vouch for any OS. On forums that have discussed this subject, I could gather that XP MCE seemed to be a preferred OS.
XP Pro might work just as well!? What about Win2K?
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